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I agree to some of the comments to a degree. While the trade in value is in the teens for the car. It really depends on the conditions of the body and other components to assess if it’s worth the investment of getting a new engine. You can get another 100k potentially and if the truck brings you utility it will still give return on capital for the DYI person or a person that relies on Indy shops. Think of it as a lease 3years of leasing will cost between 10-15 depending on the car. The alternative to spend 50k on another car works only for the well off.
Continue to use top tier fuels so injectors don’t clog or leak wiping off lube and causing scores, and change oil at 5k. That’s all you can do if you are an owner and like the car. If the cylinder is holding compression and has a few scores it’s not going to leave you stranded keep driving and get more mileage usage. Till it throws codes and can no longer be inspected. Or senda short block to arsupi and resleeve.
I'd just drive it until the engine seizes, then make a decision at that point. Who knows, it could still run for a long time. However the last one I saw had a loud knocking sound at idle and seized a few thousand miles later. If it's only noisy on startup, then just drive it.
To avoid confusion - engine knock and seizure has been mostly related to different issue. Cylinder scoring won't affect it. Scoring usually causing cold piston slap (rattle) you can google it to hear how it is sounds. Where engine seizure is caused by lack of oil pressure in crankshaft bearings, and it is related due to malfunction of variable geometry oil pump control circuit.
Last edited by arsupisemnet; 08-28-2022 at 03:36 AM.
To avoid confusion - engine knock and seizure has been mostly related to different issue. Cylinder scoring won't affect it. Scoring usually causing cold piston slap (rattle) you can google it to hear how it is sounds. Where engine seizure is caused by lack of oil pressure in crankshaft bearings, and it is related due to malfunction of variable geometry oil pump control circuit.
Interesting - thank you. So how does problems related to scoring usually progress and how is it fatal in the end? I don't know much about this. Maybe I'll just ride my GL 550 out until the bitter end, until it literally stops in the street, and just tow it straight to the salvage yard when that happens.
You can drive your 550 long way. Once it is dead just dial me and i will pick it up instead of junkyard... Anyway from my experience - i drove couple years with almost no compression in one cylinder due to burned valve. There were no observable difference - car been flying like an eagle on 7 working cylinders at governor limits. Only small vibration on idle. It took a while for check engine light finally to get on. And scoring - was there all the time.... So people complain about check engine light... Mine is on, cause i am lazy to fix tank evaporator... Just keep driving... Put a sticker on top of the check engine light... Now my driving is usually either low and slow cause i am in old S-class... Or 100mph cruising in GL... I miss my 12-cylinder though...
Last edited by arsupisemnet; 08-28-2022 at 04:24 PM.
You can drive your 550 long way. Once it is dead just dial me and i will pick it up instead of junkyard... Anyway from my experience - i drove couple years with almost no compression in one cylinder due to burned valve. There were no observable difference - car been flying like an eagle on 7 working cylinders at governor limits. Only small vibration on idle. It took a while for check engine light finally to get on. And scoring - was there all the time.... So people complain about check engine light... Mine is on, cause i am lazy to fix tank evaporator... Just keep driving... Put a sticker on top of the check engine light... Now my driving is usually either low and slow cause i am in old S-class... Or 100mph cruising in GL... I miss my 12-cylinder though...
that’s right, I forget your CEL was related to burnt valve and perhaps scoring would have gone unnoticed if it weren’t for tearing into the engine for the valve…
So are we to sell the '13 GL450 and buy a newer GLS450? Or scrap it all together and buy a Tahoe? We love the Mercedes, are you telling me there is no hope of getting 500k from the brand at all?
So are we to sell the '13 GL450 and buy a newer GLS450? Or scrap it all together and buy a Tahoe? We love the Mercedes, are you telling me there is no hope of getting 500k from the brand at all?
Chad
500k ain't gonna happen, unless that includes replacing the engine and transmission at least once, maybe more.
You can stretch original engine for 200k, rebuild it and stretch another 250-300k. Transmission (if gently used) will last about 300k just change oil every 50k miles instead 70k, rebuild then and keep driving... It is not an engine or transmission - more like will your suspension and etc last that long and cost of maintenance... Yesterday i discovered that my rear doors panels pealing apart, with only 140k on odometer. Front windshield wipers cover plastic almost gone too... And so on so on... I am keeping it either way... Did a front air strut rebuild couple months ago...
Ok, so the GL is a POS, does that mean all of the Mercedes Turbo engines are **** too? I can get rid of the GL and buy a Sedan, but almost all of them are twin turbo as well. Will I run into the same issues with ALL of the turbo cars from Mercedes?
Ok, so the GL is a POS, does that mean all of the Mercedes Turbo engines are **** too? I can get rid of the GL and buy a Sedan, but almost all of them are twin turbo as well. Will I run into the same issues with ALL of the turbo cars from Mercedes?
Chad
I'm sure Mercedes has some good cars too. My dad still drives his W124 200E that he bought new in 1991 as his daily driver, it has zero issues after all these years and he refuses to get anything else. That thing is built to last forever!
But I'm done. Let me put it this way - my next big SUV will be an X7.
Ok, so the GL is a POS, does that mean all of the Mercedes Turbo engines are **** too? I can get rid of the GL and buy a Sedan, but almost all of them are twin turbo as well. Will I run into the same issues with ALL of the turbo cars from Mercedes?
Chad
It is what it is. Cars are not built to last 200k+ miles anymore. Turbos give you more power and greater fuel efficiency than older NA engines at the expense of reliability and longevity. Most manufacturers have gone this route. Either buy new and extend factory warranty or CPO and extend CPO warranty then dump, wash, rinse, repeat.
Ok, so the GL is a POS, does that mean all of the Mercedes Turbo engines are **** too? I can get rid of the GL and buy a Sedan, but almost all of them are twin turbo as well. Will I run into the same issues with ALL of the turbo cars from Mercedes?
Chad
Depending on what models and years you are shopping for. 2015-16 X166 with the m276 motor might be a good choice. Also I’ve seen one or two around with the off road package.
Not built to last 200k+ miles?
100% disagree with that statement, unless your talking specifically about Turbo Cars. My Mom had a 1983 MB 280E that she sold with 340K miles on the odometer and it ran like a Champ! Our neighbor had a '79 450SL that had over 600K and still going strong when I left home. He use to brag about his intentions to join the 1,000,000 mile club in the car and had only done general maintenance on the car, nothing major.
Hell I sold a 2001 Chevy Pickup with 180K miles on it and I only had to change a water pump and an alternator on it along with brakes, batteries and other wear items but nothing major.
So yeah, I'm gonna call bullsh_t on your statement.
Now if your referring to just Turbo cars, I don't know, this is the first turbo car I've ever owned and quite possibly the last if this is the future in store for my families transportation needs.
"Either buy new and extend factory warranty or CPO and extend CPO warranty then dump, wash, rinse, repeat " that doesn't work for me or my budget. I will gladly go back to a Chevy or a GMC and wrench on those for a lot cheaper and apparently, a much more reliable vehicle. My Mom's car got me excited about buying a Mercedes, seemed like the logical step to buy a Luxury vehicle and haul the wife and kids around in it when the finances could allow for it.
My Dad told me a long time ago that I had Champagne taste on Beer money, guess he was right!
Chad
Last edited by Tiffany's GL450; 09-02-2022 at 09:44 AM.
It is simple as it gets, the more power per displacement the less engine life... Your ancient POS last long enough just for having 150 horses on 5 liter engines... Chevy gasoline engine on average won't last beyond 250k miles. I have a POS dodge truck with 260k on it - it only have 2 gears left and 3 cylinder working.
To the question of repairability - you can keep original block, just recondition it, there is actually a whole reconditioning procedure in standard honing machine written for m120 in w140. And you can make custom order pistons of any size for Alusil block made by CP - will cost you about 3k. Or you can install custom sleeves for 1500 plus labor, have custom pistons for 1500. There are many ways of doing...
To the question of repairability - you can keep original block, just recondition it, there is actually a whole reconditioning procedure in standard honing machine written for m120 in w140. And you can make custom order pistons of any size for Alusil block made by CP - will cost you about 3k. Or you can install custom sleeves for 1500 plus labor, have custom pistons for 1500. There are many ways of doing...
Where do I find this procedure? I would love to keep the car on the road, I'm not looking for a Hot Rod (I got a Camaro moving 1163RWHP for that) I'm looking for a dependable car for the Family with a touch of class and sophistication! I can look around and find a used engine and rebuild it first and drop in when I have the chance.
Cars made in the past 10 years by German and American car companies are not built to go 200k miles without aggressive maintenance through their lifetimes with some major replacements (transmission) along the way. No aggressive maintenance means < 200k life.
Toyotas will go forever if maintained and parts are replaced.
My former professors had old Toyota Camry which lasted 500k miles on regular service and once time belt change before it was totaled in traffic accident. It has standard transmission though. The modern one - wont last that long. Believe me - i machine that kind of **** engines from time to time.
Biggest rip off is a 10k-15k miles oil change. I as usually explain to people why trucks last million miles and regular cars not - quality of oil. Commercial trucks equipped with two filters - one regular another one centrifuge. The second one filter up to 2 micron particles, and that is only the reason why... Plus better quality and amount of oil. Regular car has to be serviced 5k miles if you want it to last. You can drive it 15k-20k as recommended however it will last correspondingly.
Speaking of the devil - i drove 30k miles on my 300SD without oil change - but it is for two reasons. First reason - to put Delvac ESP it is about 200+ dollars, second - just don't have time to sleeve it and rebuild for 500hp as was planned.
This thread is pure hysteria. The manufacturer especially the Germans pushed the envelope on getting the most MPG and reliable power possible per displacement to give the picky consumer something to spend their money on. The wealthy likes to brag even secretly how they spend their money on the latest and greatest. Point and case of the M278. So much tech went into the engine, it was well received during launch. Seriously out of 4.6l 4.7l can you get the same amount of fuel economy and power, Look at other manufacturers engines with the same displacement. So how did they do it, Well they whipped up some fancy cylinder liner and pistons, they added a variable oil pump to help consume less HP and energy from the engine. Direct injection for better fuel burn, some crazy multi firing ignition system for perfect burn. They gave you variable valve timing for fuel economy and power when needed, and put some nifty twin turbos that are are oil and water cooled so you don’t have to worry about idling to cool them down after a hot run. All while telling the consumer that they don’t need to go to the dealer as frequently cause they know their time is valuable, and servicing is stigmatized. So we ended with a perfect storm, technology that was not truly tested and with accelerated concept to production combine with lazy service intervals. All manufacturers struggled to stay competitive the consumer demanded it. If you are scared, sell it. If you educate yourself, prevent exposure as you see fit. But really if you are spending 20-30k on a Mercedes’ that cost 70-95k new did you expect to go at it without any risk? There is a reason you only paid 1/4 of what it was worth new. But the bright side is that you are the back end of the depreciation curve and you didn’t burn the cash that the 1st owners did.
The only weapon is 5k synthetic oil changes and top tier fuels, this is not about octane, it’s about detergents to clean the injectors, 91+ octane is obviously needed. And some thought when warming up the car fist time cold start. Let it idle for a little bit and don’t load the engine too heavily until oil gets to operating temps. And maybe skip tuning this engine unless you want burned valves from the added exhaust gases.
Look around to other cars made during the MPG craze and direct injection movement. You will see that MB is not the only manufacturer that is having trouble. MB 48V system will be the next point of discussion when those start to age🙂. This is not your old 300CD Turbo Diesel. But feel free to buy one of those, they might be a little rusty tho.
I wouldn't touch that engine in a personal vehicle if it was given to me. More bmep = more wrist pin force, more conrod force, rod and crank bearing force, more difficult piston ring sealing, etc etc.
Dumping more fuel in the cylinder, squeezing it harder and lighting it on fire is easy. Ask any tuner. Getting the rest of the engine to survive is the hard part which MB is not executing on.
Compare the use of plastic on MB engines vs. Porsche engines. Porsche uses metal where MB uses plastic. Porsche is smarter than MB by a long stretch.
I wouldn't touch that engine in a personal vehicle if it was given to me. More bmep = more wrist pin force, more conrod force, rod and crank bearing force, more difficult piston ring sealing, etc etc.
Dumping more fuel in the cylinder, squeezing it harder and lighting it on fire is easy. Ask any tuner. Getting the rest of the engine to survive is the hard part which MB is not executing on.
Compare the use of plastic on MB engines vs. Porsche engines. Porsche uses metal where MB uses plastic. Porsche is smarter than MB by a long stretch.
Agreed but Porsche has also the same fate with cylinder scoring, difference is most people will spend the money redoing their 911s, boxers and Caymans cause they are toys and will likely appreciate in value as there is a cult following for the them. When I end up with a car that is notorious for catastrophic failure, I go from keeping it for a long time to a short term lease mentality, if you have leased before it’s simple to understand and not feel like you are losing. The longer you drive it the more is a return on your investment. The plus side is that unlike a real lease where you know you need to return the vehicle or buy it for a ridiculous residual value, higher than MV. It could potentially provide a better value if indeed does last past the speculative life cycle. The risk is when it blows up before you get any real return on investment, but your risk is also similar with a new car that ends up with tons of recalls and the market deems it junk and you are holding on to it while you lose equity and it depreciates fast in your hands.
08-18-2022, 07:11 PM
