Originally Posted by superswiss

Yeah, if you lower it, it's essentially a wagon. However, in my experience lowered cars drive like garbage, unless a comprehensive approach was taken to the suspension to match springs and dampers, otherwise your dampers are just no longer optimized for the springs and available suspension travel and work way out of their optimal range and are also always partially compressed. A little anecdote to that. On one of my recent canyon runs I caught up to this guy in a lowered Infinity Q50 I guess it was. As I appeared in his rear view mirror he tried to lead the pace. Not sure what he was thinking since I had already caught up to him as it was, but I played along. While my C63S coupe in Race mode cornered flat while still absorbing the bumps in the road and keeping all four wheels planted, his car was skipping all over the road and he had to slow down mid corner to stay on the road. I pretty much was able to just casually keep up with him w/o breaking a sweat. He eventually pulled to the side and let me pass after he figured out that there's no way he can stay ahead of me and not fly off the road.

Originally Posted by superswiss

Yeah, if you lower it, it's essentially a wagon. However, in my experience lowered cars drive like garbage, unless a comprehensive approach was taken to the suspension to match springs and dampers, otherwise your dampers are just no longer optimized for the springs and available suspension travel and work way out of their optimal range and are also always partially compressed. A little anecdote to that. On one of my recent canyon runs I caught up to this guy in a lowered Infinity Q50 I guess it was. As I appeared in his rear view mirror he tried to lead the pace. Not sure what he was thinking since I had already caught up to him as it was, but I played along. While my C63S coupe in Race mode cornered flat while still absorbing the bumps in the road and keeping all four wheels planted, his car was skipping all over the road and he had to slow down mid corner to stay on the road. I pretty much was able to just casually keep up with him w/o breaking a sweat. He eventually pulled to the side and let me pass after he figured out that there's no way he can stay ahead of me and not fly off the road.

Originally Posted by Bmo Pete

Lemme know when I can buy a new E63s wagon, RS6 Avant or Panamera Sport Turismo Turbo for under $90k, or perhaps when miraculously the C63s wagon (no thanks if 4 cyl) or RS4 Avant make it here? I may find my way into an RS5 Sportback eventually though. Btw, I couldn't be less interested in full EV anything; don't care if it does 0-60 in 1.5 and has mega speakers everywhere blaring Ferrari Superfast V12 sounds. It's still a golf cart to me. Not quite a boomer but def old school enthusiast.

Originally Posted by superswiss

Well that's my point, isn't it? Wagons didn't sell in the USA, so manufacturers stopped bringing them over. Audi used to sell their Avants here. They are now trying it with the RS6 again and have said if it sells they might bring the RS4 over. But the reason wagons are generally not sold here, is because everybody bought SUVs instead. Wagons apparently reminds everybody of their crusty parents and they are not cool enough, so they rather bumble around in a vehicle with way too high of a center of gravity, even though they never take it off paved roads.

Originally Posted by superswiss

I can't understand why Americans rather buy SUVs than wagons.

Originally Posted by Bmo Pete

I do have to correct or enlighten superswiss on couple things:

1) the (Chrysler) minivan killed the wagon here in the US. The SUV/crossover killed the minivan

2) the small and compact SUV/crossover segment accounted for 33% of Euro auto sales in 2020
- remove the cheap little entry level car segment and SUV/crossovers own Europe as well
- or remove fleet rental cars and it’s not even close


https://europe.autonews.com/sales-se...h-czech-demand

Originally Posted by superswiss

No enlightening needed. I'm well aware that it has bled over to Europe and yes the SUV is the new minivan. One interesting aspect is that SUVs in Europe generally ride lower, because the USA has an odd rule. For a vehicle to be classified as a light truck and enjoy less stringent fuel and emissions requirements, it has to have a certain minimum ride height. So many European SUVs have a taller suspension for the US market. Ever wondered why the Tesla Model X is categorized as an SUV, but really looks like a minivan complete with a car like ride height. That's because Tesla doesn't have to meet fuel regulations, so they can make their "SUV" ride lower.

Originally Posted by T3F

Wow, funny how similar our situations and viewpoints are! I'm having the same dilemma -- not sure if this is the same in the UK, but used car prices are at an all-time high here in the U.S., so the prudent play for me might be to get rid of it now given I'm not totally loving it given I can probably get most or all of my money back. That being said, I feel like I perhaps haven't given it long enough, and maybe the all-seasons will really help, so I think I'll give it a few months and see if my opinion changes. The other issue is that I'm not sure what else I'd get -- the Range Rover Sport is a bigger car than I want right now, the Velar is, for some reason, more expensive than the Sport with the V8 which makes no sense, and the Macan is wildly more expensive if you option it the same way. I also like the Stelvio Quadrifoglio, but that makes no sense given everything I've heard is that the ride is even stiffer than the GLC's. The one other more random idea I had was the GLE580 -- you get the awesome V8, but in a car tuned more for comfort than outright performance.



I haven't, but it doesn't feel like a malfunction or anything -- the ride is just very firm. Perhaps a lot of buyers, like yourself, come to this from more hardcore cars and hence are used to firmer suspensions, which makes sense when I think more about it. I did test drive it (not the exact one I ended up buying), but it was brief, on very new roads, and on a 30-degree winter day when the car was on summer tires, so it was hard to really tell how harsh the suspension was, and though I did notice that it seemed very firm, both the salesman and I (incorrectly) chalked that up to the summer tires not being appropriate for the temperature. Good call on the tire pressure, will check that later today.



The softer suspension on the GLC63 is one reason I went with it over the Alfa, and now I'm very glad I did; if I think the GLC's too harsh, I can't imagine that I would've been a fan of the Alfa. I have all-seasons sitting in my garage but decided not to put them on yet as I didn't want to waste the perfectly good tires I have on it now, especially since it is the correct season for them, but I think I might just bite the bullet and throw them on. Ha, ironically, I'm younger and in the age group that theoretically shouldn't care about the harsh ride, but even I'm put-off by it.

Originally Posted by Bloom_Phaze

All season tires do make a noticeable difference to both the ride harshness - for some; and the tire juddering at low speeds. Makes the car far more of a daily champion in my books.
Mine is a 2018 and I’ve done over 80,000klm thus far so I’m well into the car. Apart from the
electronic exhaust valve shaft breaking in the H-pipe section of the midpipe and a rattle here and there that have been sorted I’ve not had any large issues with the car.

Originally Posted by T3F

The all-seasons definitely helped, though not to the extent I was hoping, and honestly probably weren't worth the trade-off in handling, which was much more extreme than I expected. I've spent a lot of time recently in a Macan and in a Range Rover Sport, and my initial thoughts absolutely still hold; the Macan somehow handles significantly better while also riding much better, and the Range Rover Sport doesn't handle as well but rides much more comfortably. I've also decided that I'm not super impressed with the interior; there are some really low-quality materials in certain spots that are, in my view, unacceptable for a $90k car. Ultimately, I don't hate the car and respect that a lot of people here love theirs, but it's not for me. I've ordered a BMW M3 xDrive, which, although not the most attractive from the front, rides shockingly well, has super car-level performance, a really nice interior, is only marginally less practical, and actually stickers for less, even loaded up. I'm historically not a BMW fan at all, but they've really done a brilliant job with these (again, aside from the front end, which is growing on me), and I think anyone considering a GLC63 should consider one also, especially if you're like me and actually prefer sedans but need something with AWD.