MBE3502

What’s wrong with a BMW? I got m level performance for $57,000. I call that a win, find me a new Mercedes that performs as well for that much.

BenjaminKohl

I didn’t want to say it, but switching a Mercedes for a BMW for better reliability sounds, well, like something. Either way, the Supra is a great way to get a killer deal on a BMW M340i or Z4 M40i, and that badge might give It a huge resale value boost, so who am I to judge

MBE3502

I researched the b58 and recent Bmw reliability extensively before I bought the Supra. Didn’t want a repeat of my w205. From what I’ve read, BMW’s reliability and quality is much better than it used to be. The same can’t be said for recent MB. You’re 100% correct on the resale. Haven’t seen any depreciation in the 8 months I’ve had the car.

RockChips

I can attest that BMWs are also utter crap.

If you want quality, buy a Hyundai or Genesis.

RockChips

MBE3502

Looks like BMW did pretty good to me. Not that fair behind the Koreans. Pretty far ahead of Audi and MB too.

chassis

Look at Porsche, impressive considering their low volume by comparison. It's the resources that being a part of VAG brings.

Ron.s

I question the overall accuracy of these conclusions. There is some relative accuracy since Lexus is at the top & JLR vehicle;es are at the bottom. Look at Chevrolet @ 115 vs GMC @ 143…most vehicles run off of the same assembly lines with almost identical parts. Also Forums don’t seem to show the same issues with quality…Audi much fewer than BMW. Then there is the relative seriousness of the issue that isn’t factored into the numbers. Mercedes 48 volt battery vs a software glitch get the same treatment.
CR & JDP can be a tool but not a very good one, IMO. At least CR provides some content behind their ratings.

places

Common and pretty elementary to discount the credibility of these reports however even with margin for error this does not reflect well for the brand. Many people discount these and I while I don't disagree that these reports are not 100% accurate, MB ranking not even in the discussion. They're blown out by 14 or so other makers, not exactly a close call. MB's position in the automotive hierarchy pushes them to be on the forefront of the evolutionary wheel, but with QC consequences. Factor in the premium price and problems are magnified and less tolerated (as they should). High expectations followed up by inconsistent dealer service doesn't help either, as there doesn't seem to be a standard across the dealer network. My dealer always executes beyond but some of the stories here regarding dealer service really afflict the brand. Where is MB corporate in all this? Do they care? 100K+ vehicles suffering from fundamental quality issues is inexcusable and laughable. What happens when people drop mid to upper 100's on the EQS? Hope I'm wrong but I have to imagine teething problems galore. MB should stop trying to be everything to every market and focus on high end automobiles.

Ron.s

Isn’t that what they have already announced? First they spun off the trucks into a separate company and then announced realignment to separate the AMG Brand. There’s no reason to quit making quasi luxury cars to compete with Lexus, Acura, etc…they are profitable. Having a lower priced entry point can also build a younger customer base that can transition upscale as their income levels increase. Few if any “Luxury only” brands seem to survive but have been purchased by larger companies in the past.
It seems to me that a lot of issues come from supply chain quality that can’t be remedied when you don’t have the ability to change suppliers in this constrained environment. Also Mercedes has to balance electrification with business as usual. New electric vehicles aren’t faring well either Porsche Taycan issues/recall and ongoing Tesla issues.

chassis

Agree with @places

Recent words used from other posters on this site relative to MBAG - pathetic and laughable. I agree with these.

MBAG is a low quality producer with a low quality dealer network. Low quality is defined by inconsistent product and dealer experience. As mentioned above, MBAG's prices at the higher end of the range mean a justified reduction in customer tolerance for kindergarten-level engineering fails, which MBAG commits with shocking frequency. Timing chains, cylinder scuffing, 48V batteries, rebooting MBUX, oil in wiring harness, piston cracking, MB-Tex cracking, smelly HVAC systems. Too many recent and moderate to egregious examples to list.

There really is a gap in the market for a higher performance, attractively designed vehicle with above average quality. It could be that Porsche is meeting that market need.

places

I understand the need to diversify, but to a limit. Profitable and QC have nothing to do with each other, we're talking quality here, I'm not a shareholder. If MB wants the younger base and needs to continue with entry level, they can expect the QC to suffer. You cannot be everything to everyone...period. Acura and Lexus were built from the bottom up (Honda/Toyota), MB is top down, luxury into entry. Why doesn't Acura or Lexus offer a 200K luxury sedan to oppose the Maybach? It's because they can't, they stay in their lane. As for the supply chain excuse, MB quality was suffering well before Covid. Is MB the only maker effected by supply issues? I think not. Started with the Chrysler fiasco, got better and then dropped again. I remember the first generation ML's, they were junk, went to a private event at the dealer and the seat came off the track while they were demonstrating. Shocking.

EV's will become nothing more than appliances most of us will lease and trade in every three years. Quality will matter less and flashy tech more. In the not so distant future these younger buyers MB and others are courting will have no idea what quality really means, or luxury for that matter. They will tolerate mediocracy for brand identity and perceived luxury, we're starting to see this now with people's acceptance of repeat dealer visits for chronic issues and their concern with the type of loaner car than the reason they need one to begin with.

Also to add, why not raise the bar for customer service and hold they dealers more accountable. Implement a dealer wide standard of service so people know that if they needed to go to another dealer they could with confidence.

Ron.s

I don’t agree with much of what you say but there’s no reason to hijack a thread on a cracked seat…that opened the door for you and Chassis to repeat the same comments. There are no experts on the subject here, just people with an opinion or a maybe a grudge.

places

No Ron, you derailed this thread with your post (see #33). You don't like the commentary so you accuse of hijacking? Then simply don't read or comment. I think my replies were insightful and accurate. We can agree to disagree.

Ron.s

Wrong again…I commented on a prior post showing a JD Power quality ranking. “Insightful and accurate”…good to know!

mikapen

AMG CLA 45?

RockChips

BMW has issues too, but Mercedes is definitely worse.

MBE3502

Well the CLA 45 is $57,000 BEFORE options. I paid $57,500 for a fully loaded Supra. I would not say those two cars are in the same price range. Most CLA 45's are well over $60,000. On top of that, 6cyl>4cyl in my mind.

MBE3502

Agreed and it used to be the other way around. The W204 and W212 were way more reliable than the E90 and F10. Mercedes engines from that era were far more reliable too. The M276 specifically has proven itself to be very reliable. I agree with chassis and place's comments above. Mercedes prices there cars on the higher end of the luxury car market. Customers are not going to pay the prices MB is charging if these quality issues continue. The difference in the build quality of my 2017 w205 c300 and my grandmothers 2010 w204 c300 is astounding. The W204 has had 1 unscheduled maintenance issue in the 7+ years she has had the car. It was a $355 temp sensor that was replaced under warranty at the dealer. The 2012 e350 has also only had 1 unscheduled maintenance issue. It was the ac compressor that an indie mechanic replaced for $1200. My W205 (as mentioned above and is well documented in another thread) was at the dealer 6 times in the 1 year that I owned it. My family's company sprinter van has been in the shop 4 times in the year that we have had it. This shows an obvious decline in quality at MB over the past decade. I know there are a lot of MB fanboys that will make excuses but facts are facts. I contacted corporate on more than one occasion to document these issues and they seemed to care less. I was a huge MB fan but after the fiascos that I have been through I don't want another one.

chassis

+1 My wife's current model BMW has been outstanding. A great combination of aesthetics, sportiness, luxury and reliability. BMW dealer experience, while not perfect, is not the exercise in misery the trip to the MB dealer is.

mikapen

Oh, well. You asked "find me a new Mercedes that performs as well for that much." I did but now you're equivocating.
Guess you didn't like to find "a new Mercedes that performs as well for that much." Spoils your narrative.
Toyota seems to be trying to enter the performance field. Again. If they catch on, don't expect their introductory pricing to continue.

MBE3502

Listen facts are facts the cheapest used 2020 CLA 45 AMG I found in my area is $64,000. I count about a $7000 difference in price for a used car. That is not the same price point. Also just to point out this thread was about recent Mercedes quality issues. It is not about my supra. Not sure why it’s becoming such a hot topic on this thread. I simply stated that I chose it over another Mercedes because of quality issues I experienced with my w205.

mikapen

Yep - those Facts can be - Inconvenient. The cheapest (new) Supra locally is $63,500. Pretty close to the "same price point."
If you wanted to complain about a car you don't own, why bring up a comparison that is not even stated correctly? Your Hijack, not mine.

Hope both your brakelights work - many Toyota's have the left one out. Don't know why it's always the left one, but that's what we see here. Good luck with yours.
Good that they used a German engine, though, instead of the Ballast they called engines in the past.

MBE3502

I never hijacked this thread you and another member did. This Forum is for people to help each other not to troll each other. I’m sorry my car gets underneath your skin so much.

mikapen

It doesn't, and you don't. Funny you should even think so. Also funny that you didn't recognize your hijack, and are "accusing" others of your post.
Too bad you used indefensible comparisons in the hijack. Not a problem for us. Hope you can come to grips with the Facts you brought out. Makes me wonder about the rest of your "Facts." Maybe try "opinions" next time.
As some say, see post #26 for the hijack. Thanks.