mikapen

At least the new Hummer isn't a Chev S-10 in disguise!

BACnMercedes

@places just out of curiosity, what are you basing this on? I haven’t been on the forums in much detail lately to keep up. Txs

KrustyKustom

I have to chime in on the G-wagen topic...
Drove a clients G63 for two days while in Vail last summer. I am not saying its worth 165k + 125k premium but its in a class of its own. The solid feel of the doors etc is like nothing else made today. The power the G63 has is laughable, what in the heck do you do with a three locking diff 600 hp truck?
Wild experience for me. I think if you took care of one it would last 30 years.

chassis

If it doesn’t revert to dust. Gs are known for lots of body rust. Jury is still out on the latest model. I was in a dealer showroom recently and a late model year but prior generation G was there. It had lots of visible red rust in all of the usual spots (windshield surround, wiper pivot, door hinge pins, etc). They had a big ADM on it. It probably sold immediately, rust and all.

Bryce1023

My nephew currently owns 2 G Wagons. He is very knowledgeable about them, searches the country, looks for specific years and models, has them restored and then sells them for what he claims is a hefty profit. He told me that he just acquired a 2 door Europa model from the early 1990s . I know nothing about the G , however, I do understand that they have almost a cult following. He was telling me that if you do things right, it is hard to lose money on these cars. Unfortunately that cannot be said about my GLE. I realize that the typical MB has poor resale value, as does almost all the other German makes. Porsche seems to do slightly better in terms of depreciation. I must say that when I purchased my 2018 GLC , it was a dealer loaner with under 2500 miles on it, I drove it for 40 months and traded it in for my GLE, my overall cost of ownership was not much more than a Honda. The most important aspect aside from enjoying your new vehicle is buying it right and selling it right.

digital_b

ridiculous complaining about dealer markup when every single person in this forum would do exactly the same thing if they were dealers. its market driven.

bkushner

Unfortunately this is going to go on another 3-5 years at least.

GregW / Oregon

Nobody likes to pay markups, but we've always expected discounts off MSRP, so it makes sense if conditions allow it, dealers ought to be able to make a little more profit rather than less.

TexAg91

I would think not. The dealer markup is the result of a supply shortage — this is Econ 101 plain and simple. Once supply is able to exceed demand and inventories start to build up the dealer mark ups will go away — Prospective customers will buy elsewhere because they can. It will be interesting to see what omicron does to supply but I would hope this is resolved within the year. TIme will tell. For now it is a sellers market.

Sigp232

https://www.engadget.com/global-chip...160008383.html
We still got a long ways to go

places

Frankly, I'm skeptical of everything I read but this is certainly plausible. 2024 would be my bet, meanwhile the effects from inflation and supply shorts will continue to be felt.

mikapen

That's an overly simplistic view of the chip shortage. We know a lot more now than before.
A bigger impact is the MIX of chips. Automakers have historically specified basic, cheap chips. This has hampered the return to normal, since chipmakers aren't moving mountains to produce those low-margin chips. They are obsolete!

What automakers are starting to do (Tesla showed them how) is to design circuits that use more complex chips that are more suited to the advanced tasks they are asked to perform. This does two things: It makes new applications work better, with probably fewer chips; and It makes the chips more profitable to produce, which moves these orders up in the cue. Those old 14nm (or even 90nm) chips don't have any modern uses, except old school autos.
https://fortune.com/2021/09/17/chip-...stone-age/amp/

Mercedes and NVidia started working together a couple of years ago, and is a leader in this movement. Maybe their chip shortage will end sooner.
BTW, M-B is the first automaker to receive EU approval for Full Autonomous driving. Others (including Tesla) are another year out.

chassis

I have specific knowledge that says things aren't back to normal and won't be for some time. Cars are being built with less than full features due to chip availability, and loaded to the maximum extent otherwise possible to maximize selling price and profit margin. Pushing product on consumers.

One of the Fed governors this week said inflation run rate will be 2.5% by end of this year. It's plausible in my view. Labor is flowing into the workforce. That is the main thing throttling supply and keeping prices high.

I have first hand knowledge that companies have hired more workers than they need to maintain a bank of on-call employees. The bank is needed because of call-offs and quarantine absenteeism.

Companies are over-hiring, and over-ordering raw materials, realizing they will get something less than what they have hired and ordered.

Ron.s

There is one thing not mentioned…Demand could drop just as fast as it went into high gear. Right now there is a lot of optimism and stock market wealth. Turn things around (and it will) and demand might drop rapidly. Predicting past 2022 is almost like guessing, IMO. It attracts eyeballs that monetize writers & bloggers. There are just too many variables.

Bryce1023

Hi Ron, could not agree with you more except for one small aspect. Dealerships are going to be as resistant as they can realistically be in attempting to maintain unprecedented high selling prices of new vehicles. The trade in market will drop more quickly than the new car market, allowing dealers to maintain high profit margins. It will eventually get to a point where increasing inventories will cause some dealerships to begin increasing their discounts, others will follow suit. They want the party to last as long as it can.
You bring up another important aspect of overall car sales, the economy. As an individual who closely follows the stock market, IMHO, the market is quickly reaching an overbought position. A 20% market sell off would certainly be not out of the question .I actually had thought that a significant correction would have occurred during the final quarter of last year. I am adjusting my portfolio accordingly. If the two forces of a weakening economy, paired with an increase in dealership inventories occur simultaneously then we will most likely experience a precipitous decline in actual selling prices for new vehicles. Happy buyers if they can still afford their dream car. Take care

pklee

Hey all - probably my last post on this forum (since I recently sold my GLE450) but figured i'd chime in given the relevance of my experience. Love all the content here and appreciate everyone's (well most everyone's) posts and feedback.

I purchased our 2020 GLE 450 back in June 2020, pretty much at the depths of Covid and MB gave me $7,000 off MSRP on the vehicle. I was negotiating hard between this or the X7 (could have had that for $6K more). Ultimately decided to go with the GLE450 as I'm a big MB fan (father had a 92' 300E (124) with that sweet i-6) and got a pretty good deal. The X7 was very nice but the tranny felt a bit clunky esp as it shifted into 2nd. Interior was sharp and everything felt solid (no rattles, etc). Anyway, I was super excited to experience MB's return to the i-6, albeit now with a mild hybrid. Long story short, I had her for about a year and a half and just recently was able to sell her to a dealer (via KBB's instant offer) for the same price as what I bought her for in June 2020. Not including tax, I was not taking a depreciation hit - great in my book. I replaced her with a Toyota Sienna Hybrid minivan (xse), which we have been impressed with so far. Thought I would hate the CVT but it really isn't that bad as media says (helps it is a planentary gear system vs. belt driven). 95% of real world driving, Im only applying less than 50% throttle so i hardly hear any cvt drone. The elecfric motors provide really good instant torque to get off the line.

The GLE was a nice ride but I think I was too concerned about the future / out of warranty hit I was going to take on my wallet that I ultimately decided to sell. Plus the minivan is just more practical for our needs with 3 kids (the 3rd row in GLE was really small). If money wasn't an issue for us, we'd probably keep her.

Cheers, ya'll.

Streamliner

As an older fellow—with grandkids graduating college—I have great respect for minivans and might have actually bought the Toyota or Honda, IF either had stowaway rear seats like the Chrysler. I think for a family with kids, minivans are the best vehicles and very useful. Being a Toyota (I’ve owned several) you know you’ve got a vehicle that will be close to problem free for many years and then relatively inexpensive to repair once the warranty runs out, but by then, you’ll probably be in a new one anyway. The very best of luck to you and thanks for sharing your story, even if it’s while you are walking out the door.

Aggie57

except much of the supply constraints have been coming from Asia, and China is still pursuing a zero-covid strategy with no intention to change course.

Streamliner

I wonder: are there chip shortages in China?