cupecoy

Hey, to each their own! I certainly won't be the one to tell you that you must do this or that, the passage of time will eventually just force it on you.
Yesterday I ordered with Gorillas and thought about how grocery stores will begin to disappear, and my favorite pizzeria finally stopped doing cash only which was literally the only place I withdrew cash for since 2019.
There are airlines out there now that don't even accept printed tickets anymore and I still see people come in with their binders to the airport, downloading apps at the departures hall because they can't check-in. The world is rapidly changing

Aggie57

Part of the reason people like Tesla offer a physical key fob is because for some things a physical button just works better. Keyless entry is a classic example, it's just a lot easier to use a physical key fob to open a locked vehicle from say across the street or a few yards away than to fiddle with an app on a phone. I've been in the IT and software industry all my working life, over 40 years, and sometimes we just take these things too far. My company has done very well over the years selling software that 'reduces the clicks'.

I'll give you another example. In the latest Porsche 911 they did away with homelink buttons and added them to their PCM system, their equivalent of MBUX. It's hopeless, instead of pressing a button to open your garage door now you need to go to the dash and navigate through a few items to open or close the door. They have shortcut buttons, 1 to 3 depending on the cars options, which you can program to homelink and they also use GPS to pop homelink up on the screen as you approach your house. But it's just not as good as the old buttons on or near the mirror; most owners have an old-fashioned door remote stuck to the sun visor or hidden around the cabin somewhere.

mikapen

Funny.
Does that airline require you to drop your luggage, fish around for your phone in order to enter the plane? (Yes)
Or they still "old school" and allow you to enter without a phone? (Only if you step out of line.)
Are they losing passengers as a result? (Southwest Air thinks so.)

Maybe the solution is to eliminate all carry-ons, so people have a free hand to fiddle with their phone. Ain't Progress wonderful?
Kill two birds with one stone - justifying more luggage fees, and bringing their passengers to their knees. "Make me do anything - just let me board!"

And I prefer buttons, knobs and physical switches while I'm driving, instead of the touch screens and menu diving to do things, when I'd rather pay attention to the road and traffic. (A reason I bought Mercedes vs Porsche) It's great to say "Look at me. I have the latest and I know how to use it." But the latest isn't always the greatest.

If Tesla needs to save money by not providing a "key," it's an indication of Bean Counters ruling the development, and a probable quick reversal of their EV dominance. Can you say "Cadillac Cimarron?"

superswiss

I definitely agree. I'm also in tech, and sometimes things are done just because they can, and not because the new way is actually better than the old way. Those things usually don't survive, because they don't get adopted. Mobile payment for example had a rough time to get adoption, because people didn't really think it was more convenient than taking your credit card out of your wallet and swipe it, then came the pandemic and suddenly everybody wanted to do contactless payments.

As for the HomeLink example with Porsche, Audi BTW does the same, there's actually a reason for that. There's a new HomeLink protocol that uses two-way communication to show the status of your garage door in the car. The old HomeLink was just one-way w/o confirmation that the garage door is actually opening or closing, or when it was last opened or closed. So a simple button is no longer enough to show the status information. It's another question if this was really a necessary addition to HomeLink, since generally we have line of sight to the garage to see if it's opening or closing, but then again, I have driven away in the past forgetting to close my garage. One reason I have a smart home now, so I can see if my house is secure or even get alerts on my phone if I leave a geofence around my house and the garage door is still open, or automatically close it when I drive away.

https://homelink.com/compatible/two-way-communication

Aggie57

Thanks for that link to the Homelink site. Interesting that it lists the Chamberlain MyQ units as compatible with this 2-way protocol. I've seen notes from at least one 911 owner who has added a Siri shortcut to his iPhone so that he can simply say 'open door x' as he approaches the garage, bypassing the car completely. As of yet I don't see any 2-way comms features in the Porsche implementation though. Being part of the VW group like Audi perhaps there's some grand plan that hasn't been revealed yet .

superswiss

Yes, myQ connects the garage door opener to your WiFi network. There's also a hub that can retrofit myQ onto any ol' garage door opener with HomeLink. This is what I have. I just added the myQ hub to my existing LiftMaster. Doesn't add support for the 2-way protocol as that is specifically for HomeLink, but Chamberlain/LiftMaster also offer a hardware bridge for Apple Homekit or you can use the open source Homebridge.io project (https://homebridge.io/), which has a plug-in for myQ. I run the latter on a Raspberry Pi. Once myQ is integrated with Apple Homekit it can be controlled through the iPhone's Home app or via Siri. I can say "Hey Siri, open my garage door' or trigger automations based on my location or other events. I also have NFC tags next to my garage door and front door, so I can just tap my phone and that triggers a Homekit routine to unlock/open the respective door and disarm my alarm system. Of course if all that fails or I don't have my phone on me, I can still unlock my house using the keypad on the front door, or worst case a physical backup key.

Aggie57

Thanks for the tip re. Homekit. I've got one old Liftmaster and one new Chamerlain motor, the new one has MyQ which I have enabled and the old one needs one of those interface boxes to enable MyQ. But I'm tempted just to replace that motor as the new one is much quieter. Sounds like it's easy to set up Siri once that's done.

TexAg91

Mikapen, you forgot to add, “and stay off my grass” at the end there! 😄

mikapen

Does your phone keep the deer out of the Lilacs? I'll get that app, but a slingshot probably works better.
Do in need to insert a chip in each deer, or only the dominant male or female?

Let's see now. I have to replace my garage door opener, install smart locks, buy a different car, only fly on airlines that accept NFC's, only park where there are smart meters, buy (unfresh) groceries from online retailers.... there's plenty more if I want to be completely reliant on my phone.

I'm so torn.

Your example of is a good one. Hubris from MSFT. Now it's hubris from App makers. The latest is ALWAYS the Greatest - Please buy my App.

TexAg91

Meh, look on the bright side, it gives the Russians and Chinese more things to target in a cyber attack. Perhaps they simply won’t be able to decide from arguing all the possible attack vectors.😉

superswiss

Let's just put it this way. Some people know how to use technology as a tool to simplify their life w/o becoming dependent on it. If you wanna order food at a busy restaurant you can call them and wait on hold, or you can use one of the many apps and place your order in a couple of minutes, or you can call your bank and wait on hold, or drive to a local branch and wait in line or you can probably accomplish what you need with a few taps in your bank's phone app. All comes down to how difficult you wanna make it for yourself. Using technology doesn't mean you are reliant or dependent on it. Just means you are resourceful. Just as an example, at the beginning of the pandemic my wife and I had to renew our drivers licenses and get our REAL ID. We went to the DMV and all went well, but 4 weeks later we still hadn't received our drivers license in the mail. At that point we were in lockdown and the DMV was closed, so I called and the estimated hold time was something like 2.5 hours. Went to their website and contacted them through their online chat instead and had my issue resolved in 10 minutes. We don't have to be cynical about it with ridiculous arguments like using an app to keep deer out of your bushes. Of course nobody is suggesting that. Technology should be a tool, but unfortunately our younger generations today seem to come out of their wombs with a smartphone attached to their heads. Everything in moderation as I say and used to one's advantage.

Nothing of what we discussed has to happen overnight. I built my smart home over several years for example. I just replaced appliances that needed replacing with smart appliances over time, or I had a real need. I started it all with a smart learning thermostat in order to save energy and built it out from there. Everything I added over time solved an actual problem I had or simplified my life.

mikapen

@superswiss I agree with you in concept.
I view technology as a tool, and use it appropriately. I've probably spent too much on it, for the returns I get. I really don't like my Bluetooth toothbrush.

I have developed some clever strategies to see if my garage door is closed. I wait 10 seconds to get visual confirmation, then rely on rolling codes to keep it from getting hacked.

I really don't think I'm being left behind by not having a smart refrigerator. I'll be using my dumb fridge for a decade longer than the Smart ones, with $1,000 boards that fail every 3 years. The technology I like there is inverter fridges, not app enabled fridge.

Imagine what it would be like if Mercedes made cars that could only be operated with a Mercedes Me app.
I'd be on hold for 5 days. Then I'd have to use another app to order groceries, cuz I couldn't go to the store.

I think that's what this thread is about.

superswiss

I would say this. A lot of the benefits only become apparent once you start using it and actually experience it. Funny you bring up a smart fridge. I happen to have one, and the one benefit I didn't realize I get from it is an alert I get on my phone if my wife doesn't properly close the door, so it's saving me money by not wasting energy and spoiling food. Similarly to why I got a smart thermostat. I just ordered smart knobs for my stove, which will automatically turn off the stove if there is no activity in the kitchen, because again my wife has this unsettling habit of sometimes forgetting to turn off the stove. I'd rather spend $200 now then one day finding the house on fire. Nobody is suggesting that the phone should become the only way to operate a car. There will always be a backup method. It's viewed as a convenient alternative if you just want to carry one thing, your phone, with everything on it, instead of several loose items, key, drivers license, credit card in case you need to fill the tank and a pocket full of coins so you can feed the meter. Isn't it much easier to just grab your phone and everything you may need is on it and if you have an emergency while out you can call somebody? Just for the latter is why I don't really leave my house w/o the phone. My wife may need to reach me, or I may need to call roadside assistance or emergency services.

We didn't even talk about smart watches. I don't have one as I find them ugly and bulky, but if you find the phone too bulky or don't want to carry it everywhere, a smart watch is smaller and is more likely to be on you all the time anyway. Nothing to carry beyond what you are already wearing. At least as a man I have no interest stuffing my pockets full of stuff. Women already have their bottomless purses, but don't ask me how often I watched my wife rummaging through her purse trying to find something while I just pulled out my phone and handled it in seconds.

mikapen

I have many of those, and a lot of the disadvantages became apparent to me after I owned them for a while.
I respect your information about Mercedes cars, but I don't think you are quite on point about everybody benefiting from a smart ecosystem.

Apple has visions of being known as a healthcare company. Tesla has visions of being known as a technology company. Facebook thinks they will control the world and has changed their name to Meta.

I still call most of that stuff party tricks, with little value.
My fridge has self closing doors (no app), but I like the idea of a stove that will shut off a burner. As long as I don't have to use my phone to see if the burner is on.

And I'd still rather carry a key in my pocket than a phone.

superswiss

I didn't say anywhere that I think everybody will benefit from it. Just trying to give perspective how it can simplify one's life rather than criticizing it or questioning why somebody might wanna use their phone. It might not work for a specific individual, but ultimately it's about offering choice. If somebody wants to operate their car from their phone, why not offer it, just as long as somebody who doesn't want that can still do it with just a key. I think that's what this discussion is about.

I agree with you on many other things. Don't get me started on Facebook and the social ills that they have brought on us.

mikapen

I never knew what you meant by that, but my response sure has confused folks!

superswiss

You are not familiar with the expression?

TexAg91

And for the record, it was said in jest for smiles.

Ron.s

You lost me on the wife forgetting to turn off the stove or close the refrigerator. I confess to the “stove caper” on occasion. I love the Tech just not all the passwords associated with it. Password manager, biometrics, etc. etc. A necessary evil 😈

superswiss

Well good for you, I guess your wife hasn't set oven mitts on fire yet or melted plastic cookware. We all have our battles in life.

mikapen

I figured it was just another silly Boomer joke, so I thought I'd deflect it with a deer joke.

​​​​​ I don't think I've ever heard anybody, of any age, say "get off my lawn."
But I guess you don't need that anymore, if you have a password protected lawn and the app for it.

cupecoy

There is nothing to press on a Tesla my friend you just walk up to the car and it opens the door for you on my Model X. The app runs in the background. As long as the phone is on you you have to literally do nothing. No apps no keys no buttons, nada. And it actually works 100% of the time.

Um NO that airline has a Smart Gate that recognizes your face and you just simply walk trough. It also works with smart watches too so guess what, no fiddling.

Some of you remind of that person that frequents this forum who doesn't own a GLE but constantly makes comments about it. We all looove that guy don't we? You make assumptions not having actually used the tech or knowing to a large extent even how it functions.
Now, you don't need to own it to be able to evaluate it, but at the very least you need to know the basics of how these things works which you don't, to make some sort of comparison. You bash something that you very, very much misunderstand.

Having said that, I agree on screens vs buttons to an extent. I still like having an array of physical buttons which is something that I miss on the Teslas. Screen-only is too distracting.
On the other hand their voice controls are getting better with each update so in the very near future most things would be voice controlled anyway. Buttons will disappear too.

Aggie57

My understanding is that if you want a physical fob for your Tesla they’ll sell you one.

https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-3_y-key-fob

mikapen

Let's reverse your logic on that point. You're assuming that someone who disagrees with you, doesn't understand. That's kind of the Cancel Culture revisited.

Former Systems Programmer here, where the most important quality is understanding the problem and creating the appropriate solution. Not to say "I have an app" or "I can do code."

Some apps are good, most are Kluges of subroutines piled on top of each other, just to say "I've got an app." And the app is unfurled, often complicating a simple situation.
So on the contrary, I "very much understand" how apps work. their application, and how clunky most are.
But "how it works" is of less importance than "what's it for, and why?"

More importantly - the folks on this thread very much understand the "issue" the apps are trying to "fix." And we understand how a poorly thought-out "solution" might be a step or two backwards. I think they understand the situation better, even though they might not know the code.

The Airlines that "use facial recognition" are changing their minds because of unintended consequences - privacy in this case (Alaska, Allegiant, United, Air Canada and Southwest). Their rollout was flawed. It didn't consider the actual usage by their clients, and worse, it also slowed down boarding. Guess who didn't understand their app.

Regarding any requirement to have a certain additional piece of apparatus, just to get in your car - Optional is fine.
It may be useful to folks who use their phones for their lives, and that percentage may be growing, but for everyone? Even if angers only(!) 60% of their prospective customers, why do it?
How's that bug-free IOS 15 or Android 13 working so far? Not so much, but they had to claim something to be competitive, even if the implementation fails. The Consumer is a better judge than the software "engineers."

Alb69

I am wandering whether is is possible to link MBUX with your phone in order that the map and all other services use phone's internet rather MBUX's one?