Stil have the room to negotiate?
#26
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
I never said it doesn't save fuel, I said from what I read and to make sure that everything is extra clear, on vehicles with the traditional auto start/stop (in this case the GLE 350), it might use more fuel when the vehicle isn't powered off long enough, let's say if you just stop for a stop sign and then move on or stuck in stop-and-go traffic the type that you literally do stop and then immediately go, I already stated this might or might not be accurate but many sites are talking about this same thing so I guess take it for what it is and reason why I wrote what I wrote, I am just sharing what I read. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for your post I mean if we didn't talk about this topic, you wouldn't had posted those links that could help other forum members learn about their cars if they come across this thread. Just need to make sure if their vehicle is not a 450, the 48V ISG MB uses does not apply.
#27
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
As others said, the 48V integrated starter/generator (ISG) sandwiched between the engine and transmission in the 450 makes start/stop seamless, as well as enhancing performance and eliminating belts. The 4-cylinder 350 does not have this, making start/stop more noticeable. BMW does not have a turbo 4-cylinder X5, except as a plug-in hybrid. AFAIK, the 48V system on the 6-cylinder X5s still uses an belt driven motor/generator, which is not as elegant an engineering solution. Only you can decide what is right for you. I feel the 350 does not have a refined enough powertrain for this level of vehicle. As noted, the 2024 350, renamed 400 e I believe, will have the ISG which should help refinement and performance.
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
Posts: 6,607
Received 1,186 Likes
on
853 Posts
2020 GLE 450; 2023 BMW M2 Coupe
BMW mild hybrid
However, based on their 2/16/2023 press release, it appears the X5 and X6 now use an ISG like Mercedes. "All the drive units now feature 48V mild hybrid technology. This across-the-board application of electrification comes in the form of an electric motor integrated into the transmission. This motor generates an output boost of up to 9 kW/12 hp and 200 Nm (147 lb-ft) of torque, helping the combustion engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency." Note that their system only provides 12 hp, compared to 22 hp. on the GLE's.
Last edited by GregW / Oregon; 03-23-2023 at 07:39 PM.
#29
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
They are transitioning to integrated. I believe the X5 used this system: https://www.seg-automotive.com/48v/m...rical%20power.
However, based on their 2/16/2023 press release, it appears the X5 and X6 now use an ISG like Mercedes. "All the drive units now feature 48V mild hybrid technology. This across-the-board application of electrification comes in the form of an electric motor integrated into the transmission. This motor generates an output boost of up to 9 kW/12 hp and 200 Nm (147 lb-ft) of torque, helping the combustion engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency." Note that their system only provides 12 hp, compared to 22 hp. on the GLE's.
However, based on their 2/16/2023 press release, it appears the X5 and X6 now use an ISG like Mercedes. "All the drive units now feature 48V mild hybrid technology. This across-the-board application of electrification comes in the form of an electric motor integrated into the transmission. This motor generates an output boost of up to 9 kW/12 hp and 200 Nm (147 lb-ft) of torque, helping the combustion engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency." Note that their system only provides 12 hp, compared to 22 hp. on the GLE's.
#30
Member
Thread Starter
They are transitioning to integrated. I believe the X5 used this system: https://www.seg-automotive.com/48v/m...rical%20power.
However, based on their 2/16/2023 press release, it appears the X5 and X6 now use an ISG like Mercedes. "All the drive units now feature 48V mild hybrid technology. This across-the-board application of electrification comes in the form of an electric motor integrated into the transmission. This motor generates an output boost of up to 9 kW/12 hp and 200 Nm (147 lb-ft) of torque, helping the combustion engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency." Note that their system only provides 12 hp, compared to 22 hp. on the GLE's.
However, based on their 2/16/2023 press release, it appears the X5 and X6 now use an ISG like Mercedes. "All the drive units now feature 48V mild hybrid technology. This across-the-board application of electrification comes in the form of an electric motor integrated into the transmission. This motor generates an output boost of up to 9 kW/12 hp and 200 Nm (147 lb-ft) of torque, helping the combustion engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency." Note that their system only provides 12 hp, compared to 22 hp. on the GLE's.
#31
Bought a 23 GLE450 last weekend and best I could manage was barely a grand off msrp. The 350s were on the lot 3:1 and salesman even admitted theyd be able to work on those a bit more. I just didnt like the way the 350 drove compared to the 450 at all.
#32
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Although not defending BMW by any means, they did have an impressive achievement of ranking 3rd place in Consumer Report reliability chart competing with known reliable Japanese brands (take it for what it is worth though) as there are multiple factors that contribute to a vehicle reliability, while MB has it down to I forgot I think 20th place. Like I said though, just take it for what it is worth.
#33
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Congrats on your vehicle, if it is the ride then it probably is just the tires that are causing issues, getting rid of run-flats or downsizing will help.
#34
Member
Thread Starter
What are the least reliable car models from Consumer report
Consumer Reports least reliable car models ranking includes cars with at least two model years of data and factors in issues like squeaky brakes and trouble with four-wheel-drive systems.1. 2023 Jeep Wrangler
2. 2022 Mercedes-Benz GLE
3. 2022 Jeep Gladiator
4. 2022 Chevrolet Silverado 1500/GMC Sierra 1500
5. 2022 Chevrolet Bolt
6. 2022 Ford Explorer
7. 2022 Nissan Sentra
8. 2022 Lincoln Aviator
9. 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric
10. 2022 Ford F-150 Hybrid
Last edited by manbeing; 03-23-2023 at 08:24 PM.
#35
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
#36
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Anyways OP I guess you want to go back to discussing the GLE, so let's do that. Is the 350 too much of a compromise, you did say the powertrain is impressive and good enough for your needs right?
#37
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Nevermind you said the GLE 450 is impressive I guess the 350 is a deal breaker for you.
#38
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
What are the least reliable car models from Consumer report
Consumer Reports least reliable car models ranking includes cars with at least two model years of data and factors in issues like squeaky brakes and trouble with four-wheel-drive systems.1. 2023 Jeep Wrangler
2. 2022 Mercedes-Benz GLE
3. 2022 Jeep Gladiator
4. 2022 Chevrolet Silverado 1500/GMC Sierra 1500
5. 2022 Chevrolet Bolt
6. 2022 Ford Explorer
7. 2022 Nissan Sentra
8. 2022 Lincoln Aviator
9. 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric
10. 2022 Ford F-150 Hybrid
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,950
Received 1,637 Likes
on
1,206 Posts
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
Well I mean if you still want to talk about this topic, there is a whole thread on this one it seems: https://mbworld.org/forums/gle-class...15-2022-a.html
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,950
Received 1,637 Likes
on
1,206 Posts
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
450 vs 350
I had a 350 loaner while my 450 was in the shop for a week.
I was quite impressed, especially since we have a GLC300 with essentially the same power.
We live at 5,000 ft, and spent the week viewing Aspens, 12,000 ft passes, about a thousand miles during the week.
The 2 liter four moved the car with ease, and I got used to the turbo lag more easily than when I drive the GLC.
Passing traffic was surprisingly good, but not much left above 75, compared to about 90 with the 450.
There is very little stop and go traffic on our vicinity, and I was pretty unaware of Stop Start.
Our 450 got about 1mpg better than the 350 in similar driving, BTW.
I was quite impressed, especially since we have a GLC300 with essentially the same power.
We live at 5,000 ft, and spent the week viewing Aspens, 12,000 ft passes, about a thousand miles during the week.
The 2 liter four moved the car with ease, and I got used to the turbo lag more easily than when I drive the GLC.
Passing traffic was surprisingly good, but not much left above 75, compared to about 90 with the 450.
There is very little stop and go traffic on our vicinity, and I was pretty unaware of Stop Start.
Our 450 got about 1mpg better than the 350 in similar driving, BTW.
#41
Senior Member
Room to negotiate
I just came back from a local Mercedes dealership. They offered me $4,000 off MSRP for a brand new 2023 GLE 350:
Mojave Silver metallic, 4matic, 20 inch wheels, premium pkg, driver assistance pkg, walnut wood trim, heated steering wheels, running board, Panorama roof , Trailer hitch and Front passenger seat memory
$69000 - $4,000 = $65,000 before tax and tag.
Good deal?
Should I wait for 2024 model?BTW, the engine idle auto stop/start is noticable on 350, but not on 450. Does anyone why?
Mojave Silver metallic, 4matic, 20 inch wheels, premium pkg, driver assistance pkg, walnut wood trim, heated steering wheels, running board, Panorama roof , Trailer hitch and Front passenger seat memory
$69000 - $4,000 = $65,000 before tax and tag.
Good deal?
Should I wait for 2024 model?BTW, the engine idle auto stop/start is noticable on 350, but not on 450. Does anyone why?
#42
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
I had a 350 loaner while my 450 was in the shop for a week.
I was quite impressed, especially since we have a GLC300 with essentially the same power.
We live at 5,000 ft, and spent the week viewing Aspens, 12,000 ft passes, about a thousand miles during the week.
The 2 liter four moved the car with ease, and I got used to the turbo lag more easily than when I drive the GLC.
Passing traffic was surprisingly good, but not much left above 75, compared to about 90 with the 450.
There is very little stop and go traffic on our vicinity, and I was pretty unaware of Stop Start.
Our 450 got about 1mpg better than the 350 in similar driving, BTW.
I was quite impressed, especially since we have a GLC300 with essentially the same power.
We live at 5,000 ft, and spent the week viewing Aspens, 12,000 ft passes, about a thousand miles during the week.
The 2 liter four moved the car with ease, and I got used to the turbo lag more easily than when I drive the GLC.
Passing traffic was surprisingly good, but not much left above 75, compared to about 90 with the 450.
There is very little stop and go traffic on our vicinity, and I was pretty unaware of Stop Start.
Our 450 got about 1mpg better than the 350 in similar driving, BTW.
#43
Super Member
Just out of curiosity, what are the considerations for things like CAFE or emission standards etc? I was under the impression that a manufacturer has do be under some threshold for all models (some type of average) and the focus was on fuel economy only. If it just fuel economy, and the i6 is better than the i4 wouldn't it be in MB's best interest to ship more 450s over 350s?
Is there something else in there that makes it better for MB to push 4 cylinder vehicles over 6's?
Is there something else in there that makes it better for MB to push 4 cylinder vehicles over 6's?
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,950
Received 1,637 Likes
on
1,206 Posts
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
Just out of curiosity, what are the considerations for things like CAFE or emission standards etc? I was under the impression that a manufacturer has do be under some threshold for all models (some type of average) and the focus was on fuel economy only. If it just fuel economy, and the i6 is better than the i4 wouldn't it be in MB's best interest to ship more 450s over 350s?
Is there something else in there that makes it better for MB to push 4 cylinder vehicles over 6's?
Is there something else in there that makes it better for MB to push 4 cylinder vehicles over 6's?
450s are limited by component availability. The demand is certainly there.
The following users liked this post:
mikapen (03-24-2023)
#46
Although not defending BMW by any means, they did have an impressive achievement of ranking 3rd place in Consumer Report reliability chart competing with known reliable Japanese brands (take it for what it is worth though) as there are multiple factors that contribute to a vehicle reliability, while MB has it down to I forgot I think 20th place. Like I said though, just take it for what it is worth.
#47
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yours to Discover
Posts: 14,079
Received 2,692 Likes
on
2,289 Posts
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Although not defending BMW by any means, they did have an impressive achievement of ranking 3rd place in Consumer Report reliability chart competing with known reliable Japanese brands (take it for what it is worth though) as there are multiple factors that contribute to a vehicle reliability, while MB has it down to I forgot I think 20th place. Like I said though, just take it for what it is worth.