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Since the car uses the electric motor, regardless of charge, you should always have some of that helping the gas engine.
This is what I'm trying to get my head around. When our GLE550e is out of battery, there's no power coming from the electric motor, it's 100% V6 power getting us up a hill (which is plenty). Are you saying that the gas engine in the GLE450e can provide enough charge to the battery to keep a constant 381 horsepower available to the car, or would we end up in a situation where we're in the middle of a long uphill tow and end up falling back to 248 horsepower until we can regen power back to the battery?
I am driving a 2025 GLE450e with Drivers Assist, Airmatic Suspension, and Factory tow package. I tow a 22’ ball trailer that weighs a little north of 5200 lbs loaded. It has a 575 lb hitch weight. I use a weight distributing hitch. A couple of onservations:
Power. The car has absolutely no problem with this trailer. It will accelerate over my 65 mph limit easily, regardless of terrain. On a recent 200 mile trip in hybrid mode, I averaged 16 mpg on roughly level ground.
Towability: The airmatic suspension almost doesn’t need the weight distributing hitch. When first attached, the hitch pulls the back of the car down several inches, but the suspension reacts by bringing it almost level. I have found that if I lift any more than a minimal amount of weight off the back tires with the weight distribution hitch, the back end sways going down the road.
Much of the Driver’s Assist stuff is disabled when the trailer is connected. The adaptive cruise control still works, but not well, particularly when the car is switching back and forth bbetween ice and electric. It causes the car to surge awkwardly trying to maintain speed.
Overall, I am very satisfied with the towability of this car. It has its “what were they thinking” quirks for sure. Like the placement of the 7 pin plug, making it almost necessary to climb under thencar to attach anything to it. Or the extra cost trailer backing assist that never seems to work.
I am driving a 2025 GLE450e with Drivers Assist, Airmatic Suspension, and Factory tow package. I tow a 22’ ball trailer that weighs a little north of 5200 lbs loaded. It has a 575 lb hitch weight. I use a weight distributing hitch. A couple of onservations:
Power. The car has absolutely no problem with this trailer. It will accelerate over my 65 mph limit easily, regardless of terrain. On a recent 200 mile trip in hybrid mode, I averaged 16 mpg on roughly level ground.
Towability: The airmatic suspension almost doesn’t need the weight distributing hitch. When first attached, the hitch pulls the back of the car down several inches, but the suspension reacts by bringing it almost level. I have found that if I lift any more than a minimal amount of weight off the back tires with the weight distribution hitch, the back end sways going down the road.
Much of the Driver’s Assist stuff is disabled when the trailer is connected. The adaptive cruise control still works, but not well, particularly when the car is switching back and forth bbetween ice and electric. It causes the car to surge awkwardly trying to maintain speed.
Overall, I am very satisfied with the towability of this car. It has its “what were they thinking” quirks for sure. Like the placement of the 7 pin plug, making it almost necessary to climb under thencar to attach anything to it. Or the extra cost trailer backing assist that never seems to work.
Hope this helps.
You must disable the air suspension to adjust a WDH. The Air Suspension doesn't restore weight to the front axle or the trailer's axles.
As you experienced, everything gets wonky if you don't.
Also, your hitch weight may be a bit low for a 3000# trailer. Most recommend 12 - 15%. I tow a 6000# RV and keep my hitch at 750#. It puts me over the car's Cargo Capacity, but I scale the rig and I have @ 200# to give at each axle's GAWR.
Yes, what are they thinking with the placement of that 7-pin?
This is what I'm trying to get my head around. When our GLE550e is out of battery, there's no power coming from the electric motor, it's 100% V6 power getting us up a hill (which is plenty). Are you saying that the gas engine in the GLE450e can provide enough charge to the battery to keep a constant 381 horsepower available to the car, or would we end up in a situation where we're in the middle of a long uphill tow and end up falling back to 248 horsepower until we can regen power back to the battery?
I think I can add something about Towing with a 4-cylinder.
We had a 200 horsepower Volkswagen Tiguan when we bought a pop-up camper, weighing just shy of 3,000 lb. We live in the Rockies and all our Towing was done above 5,000 ft.
There was absolutely no shortage of power and we could accelerate easily on entrance ramps or passing in long uphill passing lanes.
The Tiguan was essentially a GTI with an SUV body. It handled great but it didn't tow worth a darn.
For towing - 200hp Engine yes, Chassis no.
I think I can add something about Towing with a 4-cylinder.
We had a 200 horsepower Volkswagen Tiguan when we bought a pop-up camper, weighing just shy of 3,000 lb. We live in the Rockies and all our Towing was done above 5,000 ft.
There was absolutely no shortage of power and we could accelerate easily on entrance ramps or passing in long uphill passing lanes.
The Tiguan was essentially a GTI with an SUV body. It handled great but it didn't tow worth a darn.
For towing - 200hp Engine yes, Chassis no.
Interesting... before we purchased our GLE550e we towed our boat with a 2017 Nissan Murano SV (3.5-liter V6 260 hp). It was not up to the task when it came to long hills. I don't think it was the engine, more likely the CVT transmission just couldn't handle the hills. I promised my wife (who loves towing with the GLE550e) the next car will be just as good.
One of the lakes we visit regularly is about 100 miles from home. The last 20 miles is a bit sketchy when it comes to towing. By the time we would reach the turnoff, the car would most likely be out of electric power. We then make a 7 mile climb up 3000ft with a 13.3% grade. 248 horsepower may work, but I'm skeptical. It's very disappointing that the GLE450e and GLC350e can't charge while driving. I know why they did it, but it seems like a stupid decision.
I'm looking for some insights regarding the differences between the 6-cylinder GLE550e and the 4-cylinder GLE450e PHEV models for my towing needs. Currently, I own a 2018 GLE550e, equipped with a 3.0-liter twin-turbocharged V6 engine that delivers 329 horsepower alongside an electric motor that adds 114 horsepower, making for a total of 436 horsepower and 479 lb-ft of torque. I frequently tow a small boat, around 3000 lbs, during the summer, and I've always found the GLE550e to handle it effortlessly.
However, as I consider a new vehicle, I've noticed that the PHEV market seems to now favor 4-cylinder options, with the exception of the BMW X5 xDrive50e. Given that most of my trips involve towing for 100-200 miles through mountainous terrain, I'm curious: does the GLE450e have enough power for this task? Once the electric power runs out, it seems like I’d be left with a heavy vehicle and just 248 horsepower from its 2.0-liter engine.
Would love to hear your thoughts on whether the GLE450e is up to the task.
Even the GLE 350 is rated to tow 7,700lbs and the 450e has almost 48% more torque and 40% more horsepower with the added electric motor.
IMO, the GLE 450e will handle your towing needs beautifully. It really is a torquey ride with the electric motor assistance. I can't speak for older hybrid systems as I have no experience, but every new PHEV that I am aware of on the market will maintain a reserve charge on the battery even when it shows zero. It allows for the additional power to be used when needed and will quickly regenerate to that level when you return to normal driving utilizing the gasoline engine only.
I'm going to be the contrarian here. Our boat is between 4k - 5k GVWR and the 580 uses all 516 ft/lb of torque to tow up a 6% grade at interstate speed with the boat, two adults, three children, and gear. For towing torque is king and IMO if the battery is fully depleted relying only on the 4 cylinder ICE will not be enough to comfortably climb long hills. Now the PHEV may not ever fully rely on the ICE ensuring that electric torque is always available but I don't know how that would work on an extended hill climb. I offer the below video of our normal hill climb while towing. Note how the 48v system barely adds any boost as noted by the quick jumps to ~-65 Amps on the 48v system. Full electric boost is ~150 - almost 300 amps of draw on the 48v system. The climb starts out at 2-3% and ends at 6%.
Even the GLE 350 is rated to tow 7,700lbs and the 450e has almost 48% more torque and 40% more horsepower with the added electric motor.
IMO, the GLE 450e will handle your towing needs beautifully. It really is a torquey ride with the electric motor assistance. I can't speak for older hybrid systems as I have no experience, but every new PHEV that I am aware of on the market will maintain a reserve charge on the battery even when it shows zero. It allows for the additional power to be used when needed and will quickly regenerate to that level when you return to normal driving utilizing the gasoline engine only.
I don't see how the electric motor can add torque when you're 80 miles into a 100-mile trip and the battery is depleted. Maybe it keeps enough in reserve for a quick passing situation, but it won't have enough reserve to power a long climb over several miles. To the best of my understanding, the GLE450e and GLC350e only charge via regen during braking. There isn't a mode on either model that will allow the ICE to recharge the battery. Our GLE550e can recharge the battery to 100% as we drive down the road.
I don't see how the electric motor can add torque when you're 80 miles into a 100-mile trip and the battery is depleted. Maybe it keeps enough in reserve for a quick passing situation, but it won't have enough reserve to power a long climb over several miles. To the best of my understanding, the GLE450e and GLC350e only charge via regen during braking. There isn't a mode on either model that will allow the ICE to recharge the battery. Our GLE550e can recharge the battery to 100% as we drive down the road.
I think you're right about a long uphill pull.
The super duper AMG models have the ability to regenerate in drift mode while using the battery. Probably not much towing capacity though....
I don't see how the electric motor can add torque when you're 80 miles into a 100-mile trip and the battery is depleted. Maybe it keeps enough in reserve for a quick passing situation, but it won't have enough reserve to power a long climb over several miles.
If you know what is up ahead, put the 450e in BatteryHold (B) mode as you pull out of your driveway. Still, the last part of the quoted post here may still apply.
I should have clarified in my post: I have not pulled my trailer up a long 6% grade, so I shouldn’t say it has plenty of power under all conditions.
Rule of thumb: Each 1% grade degrades the towing capacity.
Longest 6% grade in US is Cabbage Hill in Oregon. It is 6 miles long.
The towing capacity of the 2024 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450e 4MATIC SUV is 7,700 pounds.
Same as a 350. So the electric motor is "bonus". Plus capacity is continuous duty not peak.
So with a degraded continuous capacity of 3,000 pounds we will all have different opinions how much more can be hauled for 6 miles with a bonus electric motor.
Maybe some YouTube channel will do a test of the maximum load and post it for us.
Tow capacity of 7,700 lb is what's posted, but in reality a tongue weight of 10% plus two adults would eat up your cargo capacity.
So, in effect Towing is limited by cargo capacity, not the posted 7,700 lb.
And the reason for the 7,700 lb, or 7716 that others post, is a taxation increase at 3,500 kilos, or 7716.179 pounds.
And the tongue weight is based on the Euro convention of 8% on the tongue, but has varied to 10% for some brands. Euro trailers are designed differently, are and have been traditionally pulled by sedans.
This has changed in recent years, as you can tell by what looking at the RVs parked along the tour de France. Used to be dinky, but now they're huge like ours.
Tow capacity of 7,700 lb is what's posted, but in reality a tongue weight of 10% plus two adults would eat up your cargo capacity.
So, in effect Towing is limited by cargo capacity, not the posted 7,700 lb.
And the reason for the 7,700 lb, or 7716 that others post, is a taxation increase at 3,500 kilos, or 7716.179 pounds.
And the tongue weight is based on the Euro convention of 8% on the tongue, but has varied to 10% for some brands. Euro trailers are designed differently, are and have been traditionally pulled by sedans.
This has changed in recent years, as you can tell by what looking at the RVs parked along the tour de France. Used to be dinky, but now they're huge like ours.
I don't think so. Towing capacity is pulling power when the vehicle is fully loaded with cargo and passenger weight and of course tongue weight. With a fully loaded vehicle you still get full towing capacity.
I don't think so. Towing capacity is pulling power when the vehicle is fully loaded with cargo and passenger weight and of course tongue weight. With a fully loaded vehicle you still get full towing capacity.
My statement is true.
In Europe that rating is the ability to accelerate the given load, up an XX% grade, from 0 YY kph, in a given distance. Don't remember the exact numbers but it's something like a 3% grade, 0 to 25 kph in 100 Meters. Don't quote those numbers but that's the idea.
The European tow rating, in many ways, is similar to the the SAE J2807 in the US, where Manufacturers can declare their tow capacity to be anything you want IF it's over 14,001 lb. It's a strange rule because if you say your capacity is 13,999 you have to comply with J2807, but if they declare 14001, they're exempt, just like staying under the 3500 kg tax increase threshold in Europe.
I suspect the tow capacity of most of these 7716 lb rated vehicles is higher, but if they say 7717, the buyers are subject to a different commercial tax.
But in reality, the amount you can tow is limited by the tongue weight you can handle versus your posted carrying capacity, which varies by equipment. My 53 is 1047 lb. My highest was a Cayenne with over 1,500lb carrying capacity.
Back to the example again, if you have a 7716 lb RV with the recommended 12 to 15% tongue weight, you'll be at 925 to 1,157 pounds.
Add a passenger and you're overweight.
I towed a 6000 lb RV and I kept about 740 lb on the tongue. I was overloaded by @ 300lbs, based on the GVWR, but I had a couple hundred pounds to give at each axle, based on GAWR (Axle ratings) at the scales. I was okay with pushing that a bit.
Tongue weight doesnt have anything to do with the the trailer’s GAVW OF 7700#. This figure only represents the total allowable weight that the car can tow.
Tongue weight doesnt have anything to do with the the trailer’s GAVW OF 7700#. This figure only represents the total allowable weight that the car can tow.
I don't know what GAVW is, but the tow rating (7700 lbs} is established by a standard, as I explained above.
It's not related to GVWR or GAWR.
The amount you can safely tow is based on how much your vehicle can carry without overloading components.
That's where the load capacity comes in. It's a separate calculation - one that many RV (or pickup) sales people don't know or won't disclose. Mercedes doorpost label: "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed..." 1047 lbs for my car with its actual equipment. Tongue weight is part of the cargo.
Cargo capacity is what actually limits what you can tow without hurting your equipment and staying in control.
It's a very important consideration.
On the other hand, loaded for less than 10% of the total trailer weight on the tongue, is an invitation to sway. You don't want sway.
Tongue weight doesnt have anything to do with the the trailer’s GAVW OF 7700#. This figure only represents the total allowable weight that the car can tow.
Both towing capacity and tongue weight are crucial for safe towing. For example, you could NOT tow a 5,000 lb trailer with 900 lbs of tongue weight safely, even though it's under the total towing capacity. The excessive tongue weight would overload the hitch and rear suspension, causing sway/handling problems, axle issues, tire damage, and brake problems.
I don't see how the electric motor can add torque when you're 80 miles into a 100-mile trip and the battery is depleted. Maybe it keeps enough in reserve for a quick passing situation, but it won't have enough reserve to power a long climb over several miles. To the best of my understanding, the GLE450e and GLC350e only charge via regen during braking. There isn't a mode on either model that will allow the ICE to recharge the battery. Our GLE550e can recharge the battery to 100% as we drive down the road.
Over a number of miles uphill I would imagine that you would be correct, the battery would not be able to give any assistance in that situation. Here in the flatlands of Ohio I haven't been able to find out.
It has been over a year since I've been associated with MB and driven a 450e, but I BELIEVE I remember that there is a setting in battery hold mode to recharge while driving. I very well may be incorrect and even if I'm not, that is an overly complicated way to ensure you have to power to tow on a long haul.
Over a number of miles uphill I would imagine that you would be correct, the battery would not be able to give any assistance in that situation. Here in the flatlands of Ohio I haven't been able to find out.
It has been over a year since I've been associated with MB and driven a 450e, but I BELIEVE I remember that there is a setting in battery hold mode to recharge while driving. I very well may be incorrect and even if I'm not, that is an overly complicated way to ensure you have to power to tow on a long haul.
I think you can save power with the drive mode settings, but the GLE450e and GLC350e incorporated a new "feature" that won't allow them to charge from the ICE while driving. My understanding is that MB did this to make sure the fuel economy numbers are not impacted by ICE charging.
MIKAPEN: I did misspeak. GAVR is Gross Aggregate Vehicle Rating. This is the total weight of everything being propelled by the powertrain, including vehicle, load and trailer. MB arrived at 7700 # by subtracting the vehicles weight from its GAVR.
My point remains that hitch weight is not part of the 7700# calculation. It is a separate calculation by MB which limits which 7700# trailers can be towed and which 7700# trailers cannot.
I suspect we are saying roughly the same thing in different ways. Thanks for the info.
Last edited by blkadr08; Dec 30, 2024 at 10:41 AM.
Both towing capacity and tongue weight are crucial for safe towing. For example, you could NOT tow a 5,000 lb trailer with 900 lbs of tongue weight safely, even though it's under the total towing capacity. The excessive tongue weight would overload the hitch and rear suspension, causing sway/handling problems, axle issues, tire damage, and brake problems.
True.
Last edited by blkadr08; Dec 30, 2024 at 10:39 AM.
MIKAPEN: I did misspeak. GAVR is Gross Aggregate Vehicle Rating. This is the total weight of everything being propelled by the powertrain, including vehicle, load and trailer. MB arrived at 7700 # by subtracting the vehicles weight from its GAVR.
My point remains that hitch weight is not part of the 7700# calculation. It is a separate calculation by MB which limits which 7700# trailers can be towed and which 7700# trailers cannot.
I suspect we are saying roughly the same thing in different ways. Thanks for the info.
In the US, it's called GCVR, Gross Combined Vehicle Rating.
Unless it's new this year, Mercedes has never published a GCVR, nor has any other European brand, to my knowledge.
7,700 lb tow rating is established with the procedure I mentioned above - the ability to pull a certain weight up an incline to specified speed.
They are separate calculations.
Importantly, tongue weight is not considered, although it's probably the single most important number for safe Towing.
You are correct that the 7,700 lb doesn't include the tongue weight either. It's just a dead weight number. I think they actually use a trolley in the calculation, so there's no tongue weight at all.
Here's the hitch label from my former 2020. It shows the various capacities -weight carrying or weight distributing.
Importantly, it shows The drop, rise, and distance of the ball to the center of the hitch pin. Exceeding those numbers reduces your Towing capacity. It's just a geometry equation, because a longer hitch extension exerts more leverage on the car.
In the US, it's called GCVR, Gross Combined Vehicle Rating.
Unless it's new this year, Mercedes has never published a GCVR, nor has any other European brand, to my knowledge.
7,700 lb tow rating is established with the procedure I mentioned above - the ability to pull a certain weight up an incline to specified speed.
They are separate calculations.
Importantly, tongue weight is not considered, although it's probably the single most important number for safe Towing.
You are correct that the 7,700 lb doesn't include the tongue weight either. It's just a dead weight number. I think they actually use a trolley in the calculation, so there's no tongue weight at all.
Here's the hitch label from my former 2020. It shows the various capacities -weight carrying or weight distributing.
Importantly, it shows The drop, rise, and distance of the ball to the center of the hitch pin. Exceeding those numbers reduces your Towing capacity. It's just a geometry equation, because a longer hitch extension exerts more leverage on the car.
You say tomato……I have seen GAVR and GCVR both used interchangeably in the US for much of the half century Ive been part of the RV community. Your right that it is seldom quoted with trailers. It is mostly quoted with motor homes where there is more variation in the loaded weight of the towing vehicle.
Last edited by blkadr08; Dec 30, 2024 at 01:33 PM.
Same as a 350. So the electric motor is "bonus". Plus capacity is continuous duty not peak.
.
The "450e" is also carrying along an additional 838lbs of extra weight, over the 350. Essentially, the equivalent of carrying along 4 beefy full-sized adults, 100% of the time.
Curb weight of 350: 4916 lbs
Curb weight of 450e: 5754 lbs
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