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During the first two years of ownership, it would sometimes lurch violently when coasting down hill. This problem was corrected with a software update. (This is the topic of of Technical Service Bulletin LI27.60-P-069032)
However, since then, the vehicle goes through phases lasting a few days at time when there is a "jolt" on every upshift from 2nd to 3rd gear when running on the electric motor. By jolt, I mean a sensation similar to someone popping the clutch on a manual transmission. The problem seems to happen more often when the outside temperature is between 5 and 10 degrees Celsius (40-50 F) and being in the Pacific Northwest, that's a lot of the time. When not in one of these "phases" the shifts are perfectly smooth.
Does anyone else have this problem?
The dealer's shop foreman and the MB "Technical Team" suggested that it is a software problem and I should "stand by" for an update. However, 3 years later, there is no update, MB insists that the vehicle is operating properly and my attempts to "escalate" the issue have led nowhere. I am at the end of my rope with this herky-jerky "luxury" vehicle. Any advice would be appreciated!
Mine does the same thing from a cold start 2nd to 3rd gear. I let my car warm up first and no issue. I think the trans oil is to thick to get to some of the jackets and other parts in the transmsission and tq converter.
Also an owner since new and never experienced that issue. However due to C-19, my mileage is low. What is yours and did it start above a certain mileage point?
Would using dash a camera always on capture it? Or mounted from a headrest capture the gauge cluster?
Maybe MB just needs harder proof. Just wondering.
I have around 76k miles.I notice the jolt from 2nd-3rd gear around 42k miles. I scan it with my iCarsoft MB II scanner years ago no CEL. Something about incorrect gear ratio.
I already replace the trans fluid/filter at 60k miles and front and rear diff around 50k miles. As long I stay under a certain RPM from a cold start drive. I don't have the jerk or jolt issue from 2nd-3rd gear.
Thank you, amusa, that is useful information.
However, the 550e is a plug-in hybrid vehicle that runs for the first 10 miles or so on electric power only. So, there is nothing to warm up unless I burn gas unnecessarily. My daily commute is city driving within the electric range, so accelerating away from every stop sign and traffic light involves a 2 to 3 upshift clunk, which is annoying to say the least. In order to stay in electric mode, I usually accelerate very gently. The vehicle is great on the highway with smooth transitions between electric and gas power and smooth up and down shifts in the higher gears.
The Technical Service Bulletin I referenced above relates to "Shift quality complaints during slightly braked 3-2 coasting downshift / 2-3 acceleration upshift / 3-4 deceleration upshift."
The vehicle has always had a problem with 2-3 acceleration upshifts. My issue is that the software patch referenced in the TSB cured the "slightly braked 3-2 coasting downshift" problem but did not fix the 2-3 upshift problem.
My vehicle has low miles -- currently under 40,000
Last edited by UniqueName; 04-11-2023 at 12:25 PM.
I am driving a 2018 GLE500e in the UK, currently under 35k miles. I am having the same problem with you.
The upshift from 2nd to 3rd gear sometimes feels like hitting the kerb... I also noticed a few time when shifting from 4th to 5th. It is worse when it is on battery only than when the ICE is working.
At the end of April, I sent the car to the dealership as it is still under extended warranty, but they only did a "software update". This did not solve the problem. I booked another appointment with the dealership, and the appointment has been delayed to next week. We will see how does it go again, I doubt they can have it fixed.
I am finding on the internet how to reset the "self-learning" gear shifting in the ECU, will try that if the next dealership trip does not make any improvement...
I am driving a 2018 GLE500e in the UK, currently under 35k miles. I am having the same problem with you.
The upshift from 2nd to 3rd gear sometimes feels like hitting the kerb... I also noticed a few time when shifting from 4th to 5th. It is worse when it is on battery only than when the ICE is working.
At the end of April, I sent the car to the dealership as it is still under extended warranty, but they only did a "software update". This did not solve the problem. I booked another appointment with the dealership, and the appointment has been delayed to next week. We will see how does it go again, I doubt they can have it fixed.
I am finding on the internet how to reset the "self-learning" gear shifting in the ECU, will try that if the next dealership trip does not make any improvement...
I'm sorry to hear you are also having the problem. I have escalated my case to the Vice President level at Mercedes-Benz Canada and they continue to deny that there is a problem. So, I wish you luck.
Apparently, the policy of Mercedes-Benz is that if less than 1% of vehicles exhibit a problem, the factory doesn't even investigate. It gives new meaning to the slogan "The Best or Nothing". Some of us get nothing.
Please stay in touch and let me know if you have any success resolving the problem. In my case, I have found that it is temperature dependent, so it happens much less often in the summer.
I understand that you are the Vice President of Customer Service at Mercedes-Benz Canada.
I am writing in what I hope is my final attempt to resolve the ongoing transmission problems that I have been experiencing with my GLE 550e since it was new and to draw your attention to the, frankly, bizarre customer service treatment that I have received regarding this matter. I apologize in advance for the length of this email, but the details are important and I hope you will take the time to consider it.
For your reference, the problems I am experiencing are the topic of Technical Service Bulletin LI27.60-P-069032, which is attached.
I would like to point out that the problem is a malfunction of a major vehicle component – it is not a rattle from an air-conditioning vent, or such like. In addition, MB’s own literature describes the GLE as providing a “remarkably smooth driving experience” and the 7G-TRONIC PLUS Automatic Transmission is described as operating such that “gear transitions are as smooth as butter” and “imperceptible”.
During my first two years of ownership, I found that the vehicle sometimes lurched violently, for no apparent reason, when coasting downhill and, at other times, that there would be intermittent jolts from the transmission during mild acceleration. After some time, I was able to isolate these problems to the upshift from 2nd to 3rd gear and, on November 9, 2020, I brought the vehicle to the servicing dealer, MB Vancouver, to address this issue.
My understanding is that the dealer found the TSB and applied the software patch mentioned therein. This seemed to resolve the violent lurch problem, but the intermittent jolt on the 2-3 upshift under mild acceleration remained (and remains to this day). I returned the vehicle to the dealer on January 14th, 2021 for further investigation. Initially, the Dealer reported that there were no Fault Codes on the transmission so they could not diagnose the problem. However, my understanding is that the Shop Foreman later drove the vehicle and was able to reproduce the issue and a further repair was attempted. However, as I reported to the dealer on January 22nd, 2021, this repair had no effect on the problem. Because the problem is intermittent, there are periods when the 2-3 upshift is indeed “imperceptible” and “as smooth as butter”, however, at other times, when the problem is occurring, the upshifts are quite jarring. This is not “normal” for any vehicle, and is not acceptable for a Mercedes-Benz. The vehicle cannot possibly be behaving as designed.
I raised the issue again during a scheduled maintenance visit on February 8th, 2021. I was advised that there were no transmission Fault Codes and that there was “not much else they can do” and that “it’s drivable” (words I’m sure all luxury vehicle owners love to hear). They recommended continuing to drive to see if the problem becomes worse. I suggested that the dealer, at this point, should contact the manufacturer and advise them that their software patch did not resolve the problem and seek further advice. Whether that happened, I have no idea.
Following this appointment, I kept records of days between Feb.6 and Oct. 6 on which bad 2-3 upshifts occurred. Generally, if there is a bad shift on a given trip, most of the 2-3 upshifts on that trip will be bad. Days with bad shifts seem to come in waves, where several days in a row with bad shifts are followed by periods of smooth shifting. The only correlation I can find with external factors is that bad shifting happens more frequently when the outside air temperature is between 5 and 10°C.
In October 2021, the air suspension failed and I brought the vehicle in for this repair on October 13th, 2021 and, at the time, shared the data I had collected with the service advisor. The SA (Mr. XXX) was quite dismissive of the problem, citing the fact that there were no Fault Codes and the fact that the issue didn’t occur when the vehicle was in their possession. I did not accept this because the problem was identical to the issue experienced by the Shop Foreman during the January visit and had never produced Fault Codes before. Furthermore, as an intermittent problem, I would not expect it necessarily to occur on a short test drive. At this point, I asked to speak with the Service Manager (Mr. XXX) about this problem and he arranged an additional appointment on November 16th, to collect data to send to the MB Technical Team. The outcome of this appointment was that “Both my shop foreman and technical team believe this is a software issue since your concern is intermittent. Because of this, we ask that you monitor your vehicle until the technical team comes up with a new update. … we are waiting for further instructions from technical team for software update.”
In January 2022, the vehicle was due for another service visit and I made the reasonable request for a report on the “software update” mentioned at the previous visit. The response I got from Mr. XXX, who had been promoted to Service Manager at this point, was like I was asking for raw dog meat. In any case, I brought the vehicle in for the service on February 15, 2022. At this visit, I had the opportunity to speak directly with the Shop Foreman who reiterated his opinion that this is a software issue.
Since the cause of the problem identified in the TSB is “Application of contact pressure and filling times of the transmission software not optimal”, the most likely cause of the ongoing problem I am experiencing is that these parameters are still not optimal for my transmission, perhaps owing to variations within manufacturing tolerances, and that the most likely resolution will be an additional software update.
Recognizing that software updates are outside of the control of the dealer and having had no progress resolving the problem through the dealer after more than a year of trying, on March 26, 2022, I attempted to follow the escalation process shown on the Mercedes-Benz Canada website. Usually, an “escalation process” means one talks with someone with increasing technical knowledge and seniority until the problem is resolved. However, in MB’s case, the response was a form letter from a customer service representative followed by a phone call from Mr. XXX, which served no useful purpose other than to make the customer angry. I then asked to speak with a Regional Service Manager. Even this simple request resulted in an argument from Mercedes-Benz Canada.
One month later, on April 28, the outgoing RSM (Mr. XXX) emailed me, wherein he rejected every single one of my requested actions to resolve the issue. He did offer up the opportunity to have a phone call to discuss this matter and this call did take place on May 5. Among the action items promised during this discussion were:
A renewed effort by MB to identify new diagnostic strategies
Installation of a CAN data logger (Memorator)
Changing the transmission fluid
Resetting and re-adapting the transmission to start from a known point
I was also asked to drive directly to the dealer upon the occurrence of the issue.
Having heard nothing further regarding the implementation of these steps for almost three months, I emailed Mr. XXX on July 20th, July 28th and August 12th requesting an update. Finally, on August 19th I received an email basically disavowing all of the action items discussed on May 5th.
My experience with customer service at Mercedes-Benz has been rife with dismissiveness, rudeness, argument, changing stories, broken promises, delay, insults to my intelligence and inaction, as well as an “escalation process” with no escalation at all.
Lost in this saga is the fact that the most technically knowledgeable person who actually experienced the issue, the MB Vancouver Shop Foreman, believes this is a software issue. No-one has explained to me why the software update promised by the Technical Team on November 23rd, 2021 never materialized and why the likelihood that this is a software issue has been dismissed. I would like to receive such an explanation directly from someone knowledgeable about these matters.
I maintain some hope that this issue can be resolved through a software update and repeat the request from my March 26, 2022, email to customer service that “I would like a senior Mercedes-Benz Canada executive to be appointed to shepherd this issue through the factory [the manufacturer], to liaise with me and to oversee the correction of the issue.” In addition, the requirement that I book a service appointment some weeks in advance and hope that I can cause the issue to happen on demand is not reasonable. The Shop Foreman has seen the issue, it is documented in the TSB and I have provided a detailed description of what happens. If more data is required to resolve the issue, then the Mercedes-Benz engineers need to figure out how to collect it.
I am hopeful that with your guidance this problem can finally be resolved.
Sincerely,
XXX
Last edited by UniqueName; 08-03-2023 at 11:22 PM.
Thank you for bringing your concerns to the attention of Mercedes-Benz Canada (MBC).
This email is to confirm receipt of your correspondence dated January 15, 2023 addressed to Mr. XXX, Our Vice President of Customer Service at Mercedes-Benz Canada.
Your email has been forwarded to me for review and response on behalf of Mr. XXX.
I want to start by saying that we really appreciated you taking the time to email us and allowing MBC an opportunity to review your concerns.
We will be reviewing your transmission concerns with our Engineer and Regional Management Team.
We ask for your patience while we are conducting this review, we will be in touch in the next 5 -7 business days.
I am able to drop off the vehicle on February 10th at MB Boundary.
Regarding geography, my usual route to work is shown below. After leaving my garage, the first 2-3 upshift would occur around the red X. I don’t think there is anything remarkable about the geography (perhaps slightly up hill). Generally, all the 2-3 shifts on a given trip will be the same (i.e., all good or all bad), so if the first shift at the red X is bad, typically the rest of the trip will be bad.
I am able to cause the transmission to “clunk” if I start from a stop at the corner shown below and accelerate at the limit of the electric motor (i.e., at the point just before the ICE would start). However, this might be a different issue. This is a steep hill.
Sincerely,
Last edited by UniqueName; 08-03-2023 at 09:41 PM.
As arranged, I visited MB Boundary today and, apparently, Mr. XXX was not expecting my visit and was taken by complete surprise.
My hope and expectation was that between the time the appointment was made and now, there would have been discussions between Mr. XXX and the technical team/manufacturer and detailed instructions would have been provided to Mr. XXX about precisely what data is required to advance this case.
I hope you can forward the case file to Mr. XXX. From my side, it was like starting from the beginning.
Thank you for arranging the inspection of my vehicle.
I have picked it up. However, XXX was not able to provide any information about whether the problem was reproduced and what was done to the vehicle. He said this information would come from you. Could you please provide an update?
I sincerely apologize for the delay in providing you with an update.
I have requested from the Regional management team and you have my commitment to update you as soon as I hear back from them.
The basis for my complaint to Mr. XXX was the poor handling of this case by the regional management team so I am concerned that they are even involved at this point and continue to delay the resolution.
The behaviour of the vehicle has been particularly bad over the last few days. I have really lost patience.
I haven’t even been informed whether or not your technician reproduced the problem and if it is being worked on.
We thank you for your patience over the past few weeks as we analyzed the behavior of your 2018 GLE 550e 4Matic Hybrid bearing VIN XXX (the “Vehicle”)..
You reported on January 15, 2023 that the Vehicle was experiencing a “harsh shift”, wherein there was a rough transition between the electric system and the gasoline drive train.
A review completed by Mercedes-Benz Boundary did not replicate the concern, and as a result, a Technical Specialist from Mercedes-Benz Canada (the “Specialist”) flew to Vancouver to conduct additional testing and evaluation.
On February 13, 2023, the Vehicle was subject to a complete technical and diagnostic review.
The Specialist took a number of measures starting with a complete engine adaption reset. The Specialist also performed a wet clutch re-adaption, engine oil replacement, and engine mixture adaption.
When initially taking the Vehicle through an assortment of real-world driving conditions, the Specialist was unable to duplicate the concern. However, upon following your exact route from your home to your place of work, with the Vehicle driving from a cold start in hybrid mode, the concern was replicated. It was not replicated on the reverse route, going down the hill.
We are now in a position to confirm why this shifting issue is occurring.
The Vehicle’s two driving systems are integrated. When leaving your home to go to work, the battery and engine are cold. Your route to work quickly takes you to a fairly steep hill. As you begin the ascent of the hill, you are driving on electric power. Due to the grade, the Vehicle requires additional torque and it switches to the gasoline system. Fuel is then injected into the engine, which is cold because the Vehicle has been relying on electric power to this point. Once you are over the hill, the Vehicle returns to the electric mode for the remainder of your commute and thereafter. The gasoline engine does not achieve a sufficient operating temperature to fully burn off the fuel and over a period of days, as your commute is repeated, the engine becomes flooded with gasoline and misfires.
To avoid this condition repeating, we recommend that you select the gasoline-engine mode before beginning your commute. This will warm up the gasoline engine prior to ascending the hill, and gasoline will then be injected into an engine that is sufficiently hot to burn the gasoline vapor and avoid engine flooding. Alternatively, if the hybrid mode is used and the Vehicle is driven for a longer distance prior to ascending the hill, thereby warming up the engine, it should also avoid the issue.
We appreciate this is an unusual response, but it seems that the unique conditions of your commute to work (engine temperature, grade, etc.) create a situation where it is possible for this to occur.
We confirm the issue will be entirely avoided with the changes to the driving behavior described above.
We hope the foregoing is of assistance, and should you have any further questions, please contact Regional Service Manager Sam Menard or myself.
Thank you for your message and for your efforts to resolve my issue.
However, there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding. My concern has nothing at all to do with a “rough transition between the electric system and the gasoline drive train”. My complaint involves a harsh upshift between 2nd and 3rd gear when driving exclusively on the electric motor. The gasoline engine is not involved whatsoever. The jolt of the vehicle is perfectly correlated with the change of the gear indicator on the dashboard from 2nd to 3rd gear. My commute is usually 100% electric – there is no transition to gasoline power.
I would also like to point out that the date I originally reported this problem was November 9, 2020.
As MB kept my vehicle for 12 days during your diagnostic process, I would have hoped that the technician might have telephoned me during this time to confirm the nature of my complaint and perhaps to drive with me to demonstrate its occurrence (If, in fact, he followed my commuting route, he could have easily picked me up at my home or office). It causes me great concern that so much time and effort has been wasted attempting to reproduce the wrong problem. This is despite my attempts to get an update and engage in dialog while the vehicle was in your possession.
As I mentioned during our call, I note that the lack of timely communication also resulted in me paying for an unnecessary oil change in the following week.
I continue to believe that my issue arises from a problem with the transmission software and this is the conclusion reached by the Technical Team and MB Vancouver and re-iterated in personal discussion with the shop foreman. On November 23, 2021, I was advised:
The promised “new update” never came, nor has any explanation been provided as to why the possibility of a software problem has been dismissed. I would appreciate this explanation.
The behaviour of the vehicle is currently the same or worse than before – it is certainly not improved.
As discussed, I will drive for 14 days using gasoline power, but since “misfiring” is not a plausible explanation for a transmission shifting issue that occurs when running on only the electric motor, I do not expect this to produce any results.
04-09-2023, 07:54 PM
GLE 550e Transmission Issues
