NYCGLK

^huh???

dsgn

Fuel injection cleaning needed not to be there. Your warranty cannot be voided if you went elsewhere to have your scheduled maintenance done. For the price, there is no guarantee that the service may not be sloppy.

Yes! It is a Mercedes and some aspects are not cheap but defrauding the owner doesn't factor into the ownership of a Mercedes.

dsgn

If this is something that you wouldn't so on the same vehicle when it is 15 or 20 years old, then you are being illogical and impractical. If you can justify doing such unneeded services when it is new and cannot when it's almost two decades in age, then you need to re-examine your maintenance culture. This is more of keeping money flowing and not about the customers. If you think MB cares about you and their product with respect to anything that would put a dent in their profits or monetary flow, think again.

You have your interest to protect and the burden is upon you.

allanX204

115 feet or 145 feet to come to a halt makes a difference.
I don't want to be in front of you if I have to use my brakes in case of an emergency stop.

NYCGLK

yes it does, but at what point the stopping distance would really suffer? I just don't think brake fluid flush is necessary at 20k or even 40k. And if braking effectiveness does decrease as you said, then you would notice and and do the brake fluid flush then as well as check out your pads and rotors.

The point of not wanting to be in front of somebody if you have to stop has little to do with brake effectiveness. Good brakes help, but paying attention and keeping distance are two deciding factors.

allanX204

The recommendation is by years, not miles/kilometer. Usually every 2 years.
As I posted before, the brake fluid is hydrostatic*.

*I checked the net again and according one article
it affects the older brake fluid only. See below:

Brake fluid is a subtype of hydraulic fluid with high boiling point, both when new (specified by the equilibrium boiling point) and after absorption of water vapor (specified by wet boiling point). Under the heat of braking, both free water and water vapor in a braking system can boil into a compressible vapor, resulting in brake failure. Glycol-ether based fluids are hygroscopic, and absorbed moisture will greatly reduce the boiling point over time. Silicone based fluids are not hygroscopic, but their inferior lubrication is not suitable for all braking systems.[3]

Now, we just need to find out what kind of brake fluid our MB using.


Unfortunately, the effectiveness comes without a warning. It is hard to notice in regular driving. Only if you have to slam your breaks you would "feel" it. ....that would be too late. I just don't believe in saving money at the wrong end.
(I don't like and support rip offs)


1000%

MKenM

So lets see here, at 10,000 miles change oil, rotate tire, don't do anything just check a bunch of stuff.

At 20,000 miles same as 10,000 miles but replace cabin filter and replace brake fluid and Oh replace wiper blades (cost me $15 bucks after rebate)

At 30,000 miles, again same as 10,000 miles and replace wiper blades again.

OK now 3 oil changes and tire rotations, oil $180 + $60 labor includes oil filter rotation and inspections. Cabin filter umm $50 + blades $50. I didn't charge myself to put in the cabin filter or put on the blades. Maybe I should to make this look better.

Calculator $180 + $60 + $50 + $50 = ooops calculator is broke. I think you spent more than I did and by the way you paid up front.

Confucius say "He who laughs last............."

dsgn

This sheer ignorance. The brakes isn't what stops the car. All the brakes does is to translate energy, thus giving off heat. This is a foundational study in the discipline of thermodynamics and heat transfer and many laws are involved as this takes place. 115 to 145 feet means you have bad tyres and worn out springs and suspension. Brakes work in tandem with aerodynamics, suspension and tyres. The tyres are responsible for stopping a car. All in harmony will bring a vehicle to a halt.

Secondly, the brake fluid under no circumstance will it increase your stopping distance. Brake fluid is an incompressible fluid that translates force into pressure.

The relationship between you and MB is not because you found favour or you have something worthwhile that they can use to enhance their end-course. It is just money. When you take out the money, the bond is gone. It is your responsibility to look out for your own best interest, including matters that are monetary.

Please, do not get me wrong -- I don't support poor maintenance culture.

dsgn

Incorrect! When the quality of your fluid drops, you will occasionally have pedal pulsation (similar to ABS pulsation in hard and firm application) after a cold start-up or morning start-up. This is as the brakes are priming up to full pressure after start-up; so it's only once per occasion and in rarity. It's usually after many years. You still have 100% braking (even during the pulsation).

If you ever step on your brake pedal and you have no force-feedback from the pedal (all the way to the firewall), you have a failed master cylinder not the brake fluid. It is another episode if you have the sensotronic braking system.

allanX204

Please read the following:

Why Change Brake Fluid?

Brake Fluid is a hot topic because most people don't know why it should be changed. Did you know the average motorist who drives 10,000 to 15,000 miles a year uses his brakes about 75,000 times a year? Did you know that nearly half of all motorists in a recent Car Care Council survey said brake failure was their number one fear amongst driving emergencies?
So consider this: After three years of service, the average boiling point of the brake fluid has dropped to a potentially dangerous level because of moisture contamination and may not meet minimum federal requirements for brake fluid.
Probably half of all cars and light trucks that are 10 or more years old in the U.S. have never had their brake fluid changed. Yet in many European countries, regular brake fluid checks are required, and half of all cars routinely fail such tests. That's a good case for changing brake fluid.


FLUID RELATED BRAKE FAILURES
From time to time we hear about reports of "unexplained" brake failures that caused accidents. When the vehicle's brakes are inspected, no apparent mechanical fault can be found. The fluid level is normal, the linings are within specifications, the hydraulics appear to be working normally and the pedal feels firm. Yet the brakes failed. Why? Because something made the brakes hot, which in turn overheated the fluid causing it to boil. The underlying cause often turns out to be a dragging rear parking brake that does not release. But that's another story.
The same kind of sudden brake failure due to fluid boil may occur in any driving situation that puts undue stress on the brakes: a sudden panic stop followed by another, mountain driving, towing a trailer, hard driving, etc.
A case in point: A child was killed in an accident when the five-year old minivan with 79,000 miles on it his parents were driving suffered loss of pedal and crashed while the family was driving in the mountains of Washington state. Fluid boil was blamed as the cause of the accident.

The full article can be found here:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm

NYCGLK

Not sure what you mean by that.

So what you are saying is that pressure doesn't affect effectiveness of the brakes. How can that be true? Why then have 4-6 piston calipers if not for more pressure?

n8nu

Sounds like if you want top performance, you should get it done.

My question is, why is it that Mercedes is the only one doing it? My two previous cars have never had a brake fluid flush, and the last two were bought new from the dealer and serviced at the dealer. The one I sold when it was 5.5 years old, and the other my wife drives and it's 5.5 years old and the dealer has never suggested time to flush the brakes.

Do other manufacturers simply not recommend it?

yualfred

After talking to the service manager, here is the result:
1. The brake fluid replacement was a required service, you have to do it or void the warranty. Check your service manual and it says every 2 years too. The cost is not included in service B. BTW, I did feel the brake was more responsive after the service.
2. They put 50% on non-mandatory items, ie Air mist spray, gas flush. With is about $150. So my bill ended up like $950.

The bottom line is, you will have to pay minimum $700 (price in Canada) plus tax at the 2nd year in the dealer. Unless like MBRedux indicated, by Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act you don't have to go to the dealer for service. Most people still do that for reasons like laziness, not knowing a good independant garage or simplify trying to avoid any possible warranty disputes.

I will start to search independant service that is good with MB cars in Toronto GTA area. Anyone knows a good one to share?

allanX204

from my previous post:

The full article can be found here:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm

OEM BRAKE FLUID RECOMMENDATIONS
What do the auto makers say about fluid changes? General Motors and Chrysler do not mention brake fluid in their scheduled maintenance recommendations. A General Motors spokesman said Delco Supreme 11 DOT 3 brake fluid contains additives than many other brake fluids do not, so it is essentially a lifetime fluid. Starting in 1993, GM began using a new type of rubber brake hose with an EPM lining and outer jacketing that reduces moisture penetration by 50%. So GM does not consider fluid contamination to be a significant problem.
Ford, for a time, recommended fresh fluid every 36,000 miles or three years, and to replace the fluid each time the brake pads are changed. Currently, however, Ford specifies no specific time or mileage recommendation for changing the brake fluid.
As for Chrysler, the only recommendation they publish is to change the fluid every 24 months on their Sprinter van.
A number of import car makers do recommend brake fluid changes for preventive maintenance at specific time/mileage intervals:
Acura: 36 months
Audi: 24 months
BMW: 24 months, or when indicated by Service Inspection Indicator
Honda: 36 months
Jaguar: 24 months all models except 2009 XF (36 months)
Land Rover: 36 months
Lexus: 36 months or 30,000 miles, which ever comes first
Mercedes-Benz: 24 months
MINI 24 months
Saab: 48 months (all models except 9-7X)
Smart: 24 months or 20,000 miles, which ever comes first
Subaru: 30 months or 30,000 miles (normal service) or 15 months/15,000 miles (severe service)
Suzuki: 24 months or 30,000 miles, which ever comes first (Forenza & Reno), 60 months or 60,000 miles (Grand Vitara and SX4)
Volkswagen: 24 months (New Beetle, City Gold, City Jetta), 36 months (all other models except Routan)
Volvo: 24 months or 37,000 miles (Normal), or 12 months (severe service)
Source for fluid change recommendations: Vehicle Manufacturer service information & owners manuals

If motorists would only follow this simple advice to change their brake fluid periodically, they could greatly reduce the risks associated with moisture-contaminated brake fluid. You can extend the life of your brake system and likely save yourself a lot of money in the long run on grate repairs, especially if your vehicle is equipped with ABS (because ABS modulators are very expensive to replace!).

MBRedux

I just looked over at the MB's Customer Care website's frequently asked Q&A dept. Boy are they treading on thin ice. Every question that asks whether service must be performed by a dealership in order to maintain their warranty coverage is a scare tactic. In fact the website suggests that only MB parts & products (fluids etc) "should" be used to maintain the warranty. Using the word *should* is very slick. In addition, they claim that "only MB service centers have the right equipment" to work on your car without damaging it. (This is not only misleading, but in violation of FTC Federal Law.)

They better watch out. I'd bet that their legal division is not aware of this. Some high level attorney with too much time on his hands will file a class action against them... and win.

NYCGLK

MBredux what are your thoughts about the brake fluid flush?

kunz

Just got my service B done for $425. I told them not to change the wipers or the cabin filter though, i'll do those myself.

SD90

I got my service B done at the Mercedes deaership in Henderson NV, and it was only $390, and they were done in less than 2 hours! The dealership in Calgary wanted $600, for the same service. (They did the cabin filter and the air filter as well)

MBRedux

The DOT4+ brake fluid in our GLK's must be flushed and replaced every 24 months according to the service schedule. If this is not done, there is a risk of moisture damage, vapor lock, lower boiling point temperatures, etc, which can lead to poor braking performance and even an accident.

I did mine. Took my son and I about an hour at a cost of about $20 bucks. I would recommend following the service schedule to the letter.

Burl

Do you change the air filters on this service as well?

Blaster

Not that this is the best example, but my prior car, a 335i required fairly frequent brake fluid flushes, each 20-25k IIRC.

MBRedux

I didn't because the filters looked good. If you're in a dusty place, then you will need to replace them.

rmfnla

Do you have Bozo's number..?

John CL500

Wow! Just wow.

What happens when Im flying an F-15 at Mach 3.0 and I pull the speed brake?

cycleflight

Mechanical engineer here with a background in thermodynamics, dynamics, heat transfer, and aerospace. I created an account here to refute most of this, as it is dangerously inaccurate.

Yes, the friction between the tire and the road is the final puzzle piece that results in a car slowing down. However, to assume that because the braking system is not the last part of the chain, it must therefore work ideally and in a non-physical way, is inane. I'll explain myself in the next paragraph, but the short story is: inanity is not something you want anywhere near the system that is responsible for slowing you down.

First, a bit about the nature of DOT4 brake fluid. It was mentioned in a previous post that silicon based fluids do not absorb water, but there are no DOT4 systems that use silicon based fluid... a brake system designed for DOT4 is not generally compatible with silicon (DOT5) fluid. And unfortunately DOT4 brake fluid, while it has a high boiling point (500+ degF), is very hygroscopic (this was referred to in a previous post as "hydrostatic," which isn't the same thing, but the idea of hygroscopy was well described). To reiterate the a previous poster, a hygroscopic fluid absorbs water readily. When this happens the boiling point drops drastically (to somewhere in the mid 300 degF range when enough water gets into the system). Obviously, this means it takes much less heat to get the fluid to boil. I'll explain why boiling brake fluid is bad in two paragraphs, but first some anecdotal experimentation that you can try out in the country (for the love of all that is holy PLEASE do this in the total absence of other cars).

If you make a sustained high speed stop or a number of mid-speed stops in a row, your braking system will build up heat fairly rapidly. If you're a practical learner, go find a lonely, straight road somewhere and go from 0-60-0-60-0-60-0-60-0-60-0 mph (keeping an eye for traffic of course). You'll probably see smoke come from your front wheels (this is somewhat normal), and if it's been a long time since you changed your brake fluid, I guarantee that the pedal won't feel the same as it did when you started. It will begin to feel "spongy," like a wet marshmallow (or a normal GM product... HA!). DISCLOSURE: doing this can, and will, cause rapid wear to normal street brake pads. I am not responsible for damage to your property or damage you cause to other property, even if you follow the procedure above exactly. You've been warned.

This spongy brake feel is because the fluid has boiled, and there is now gas in your hydraulic brake lines. This is the part where the post I'm replying to is fatally wrong. Brake fluid is can be assumed to be incompressible (it isn't but it's really close!). Brake fluid vapor is as compressible as cotton candy. With a system with boiled fluid, you are pressing on an incompressible fluid, which in turn pushes on a very compressible gas, which pushes on the piston in your brake caliper, which pushes on your brake pad, which pushes on the brake disc, which creates a torque on your wheel in the opposite direction of rotation, which causes a tangential force at the mating point of the tire and the road in the opposite direction of motion. In short, your system will still work, sort of. But that brake fluid vapor absorbs a lot of the master cylinder's pressure and uses it to increase the pressure of itself before increasing the pressure on the brake piston, and that causes a big delay. Deadly big if you need to stop suddenly. ALL of this happens more quickly and more suddenly when your brake fluid is old and full of water. And make no mistake, even if you've never opened your brake fluid reservoir, water can and will get into the system. It isn't airtight, and air contains water vapor. Bit by bit your brake fluid will get wet.

For that reason alone, you should change your brake fluid at the recommended intervals. It may save your life some day. Worse, not changing it could end up killing someone you love.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

Brake fluid that has absorbed water has what in it? Water! What is water? An awesome solvent! What do solvents like water do to solid objects given pressure, friction and time? Take a gander at our beautiful grand canyon. Water, pressure, friction and time put that there. Water will do a similar thing to the seals in your hydraulic system (of which there are several). If this happens you get a brake fluid leak (about as flammable as gasoline) somewhere in your car, and you get to replace your brake system!

There's a ton of videos out there explaining how to do a brake fluid flush... it's really quite easy if you're into that sort of thing. If not, you can get it done any number of places for reasonable sums of money.

In conclusion, save your loved ones, save money, and save that guy you would've buried with your 4500 lb silver arrow. Change your brake fluid.