UrBusted

Nothing that stands out to me, I believe nappa option made the centre console leather, I forgot what else. Interestingly the S Class appeared to be designed for the higher end options and then downgraded from there for people that didn't pick those packages, things like the Burmester 3D roof speakers already had 'placeholders' making that retrofit very easy. The interiors fl/prefl material wise was roughly the same, NTG upgrade, steering wheel change, dual zone ambient lighting etc changed, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. 9G transmission was the major thing that stood out to me in it, we have s350 diesels here so it helped alleviate the sluggish feeling.

SW20S

At the end of the day all of these cars are mass produced. I’m totally satisfied with the interior quality of my S560, I’ve had a lot of nice cars too including 4 Lexus LSs.

chassis

Interesting TGT comments. Owners of them on Rennlist love them. There is a thread on Urus vs TGT and quite a few posters say the Urus isn't "worth it". Urus is a look-at-me car and for people who want the Lambo badge and cosmetics. The TGT according to owners is a great performance vehicle with more sublety than the Urus. Cayenne across the lineup is a great buy right now for the combination of performance, luxury and reliability.

hyperion667

Yah yah! This guy has been mentioning his "Lexus" for years now jesus F christ!

nc211

I agree, but also a bit of my point of the thread too. Would you feel the same way (or more) with a brand new one? When you get into a MB from the 2010-2018ish era, and then into a 2020+, it’s different, and now seems another shift as they roll out this new ipad setup too. Example, instead of individual buttons, we’re now going the way of a touch pad that incorporates several buttons. Whatever that thing is called, hexawhatdfjdh, it just feels cheap to me. I press a button, and the whole thing moves with it, like it’s loose. Feels cheap to me. I understand all car makers are evolving, but that gap between being a “Mercedes Benz” and something else, certainly feels like it’s narrowing, yet the price margin for the “best or nothing at all” doesn’t seem to be narrowing. For instance that Mazda CX90 posted earlier. That is a very nice car and I would certainly be considering it if I were looking at a GLE or even the GLC. It may not be apples to apples, but it’s certainly not apples to oranges anymore either. It’s more like apples to apple sauce.

Crito

I wish materials and build quality were the worst of the issues I have with my Mercedes but its the software that killed the brand for me. I don't know who is designing software for MB but whoever thought it made sense to popup a warning every time I start my car reminding me to not let stoopid popups distract me really needs to be fired. I mean it's like three stooges stoopid. I also don't need to know where all the gas stations are driving an EV and there are no parking spots down the train tracks that would require popping out the rear camera every time I stop there. Grrr...

nc211

I think someone needs to maybe tell this next generation of engineers who think making it do as much as possible is what people with $100k to burn really want. But it’s not just cars either. In my world of big banks, it’s laughable to the point of utter confusion and complexity for the easiest of tasks. Example: a burnt out light bulb in a lamp.
Frank walks in, gently shakes the new bulb next to his ear to inspect for a loose filament, unscrews bad bulb, screws in good bulb, checks that it works (it does), then turns off lamp and leaves the room. Next guy comes in turns on lamp gets what he needs and leaves.

but now, it’s a team of 6. One to acknowledge the lamp needs a new bulb. One to inspect the mew bulb. One to unscrew the old bulb. One to screw in the new bulb. One to check that it works, and one to turn it off. However, the last guy decides to leave it on to demonstrate the “team success”. And when the next comes into the room to get what they need, the lamp is not working because the bulb is again burnt out.

frank gets penalized for not being a team player.
team awesome sauce all get promoted to VP’s
for demonstrating team work and have drafted a 50 page procedure manual on how to change a light bulb…

Mercedes Benz, I am going to tell you the secret that every newly retired husband has said to his adoring wife who has grown angry that her husband is not paying enough attention to them. “sweetie, i would pay a lot more attention to you, if you would pay a lot less attention to me…”

MDMercedesGuy

Spoken as a twice degreed engineer, reinvent the bulb to one that won't burn out - like a long life LED, and problem solved.

The problem is when bean counters and aesthetic designers get involved...

SW20S

I think there is a definate change in MB interior build quality in the 2020+ era, no question. Mine dates back to 2014, so its from the era you mention as being superior. Its kind of like Lexus, the era between 2006-2013 was a dark time, the cars felt very cheap inside compared to the immedate previous generation and then that turned aorund circa 2014-2014 with the LS refresh and the 4GS and 3IS, and now Lexus is doing a great job with their interiors (its the mechanics and design that are faltering). I think this is a period for MB where they are dealing with massive investment in EVs and you see the result of that elsewhere. MB had a similar period from 2000ish-2007 in the era of the W220 S Class where they were dealing with price pressure from Lexus. MB found their way though then and they will again.

I can tell you having driven the CX-90 several times looking to buy one, it is no competition for a GLE or GLS. The only reason I would choose one is if I really couldn't afford or didn't want to pay for the MB (or BMW etc).

Personally I think MB made a huge mistake designing their EVs as stand alone models. The way BMW is doing is makes much more sense and it lets the customer make a much more natural choice for an EV. If they made an EV W223 S Class I would buy one, but I don't want an EQS.

This is interesting when Mercedes claim to fame in the past was their obsessive over-engineering What you describe is over-engineering.

EWL5

The CX-90 is really shooting for the GLS/X7/Q7 since it's a 3-row vehicle.
Real competition for the GLE will come in the form of the CX-70 that will have the same i6 engine as the CX-90 but in a smaller, lighter car. I expect a closer drag race against the GLE, X5, etc.

SW20S

No competition for the GLE or GLS comes from Mazda. People buying cars of that level by and large don’t consider dramatically cheaper vehicles.

EWL5

They might consider alternatives if MB continues to cheapen out.

I'm hearing a lot of "Mercedes feels less special" in this thread.

SW20S

They'll consider alternatives from cars within the same caliber. For insrance, I might choose a BMW 7 Series over a W223 or maybe a Range Rover, but I'm not going to all of a sudden go buy a Hyundai because the W223 disappoints me. That CX-90 looks very compelling for the money in pictures, but when you sit in it and drive it around the bock its no GLS. I would keep my W222 before I downgraded to a car that didn't deliver the same level of performance, quality and enjoyability.

I think the GLS personally is still a very impressive vehicle inside, its not an example of what we're talking about IMO. In a nice spec with nappa leather personally I think its nicer inside than a W223 S Class. Now a GLC? Certainly a GLA or GLB I see no reason to buy one of those over a mainstream brand because they too are just transverse FWD garbage.

nc211

Ok, so we've switched out my BMW X3 loaner for a brand new GLC while we wait for the passenger side seat cover to come in on the GLS. I was happy with the switch as I have always liked the GLC personally, and have considered it as a potential replacement for my aging w212 (and I wouldn't mind an SUV now over a sedan). This one is loaded up with toys, including the heads-up display on the windshield, which is freaky to get used to at first. Gives me a great opportunity to also compare the MBUX differences between the GLS and this new style of an iPad setup in the center stack.

I have to admit. It's pretty nice. I don't get it why when I looked at the other one last week while waiting for the loaner to arrive, but this one seems to feel far better. No squeaks when pressing on the materials. The wood(ish) trim looks more realistic and "Mercedes like". The iPad configuration definitely takes some getting used to over the GLS style. Gone is the track pad and muscle memory to scan through the radio stations. It's not quite as easy to use, but it's so close to your hand that it's not terrible either. Just takes some adjustment. It is light years ahead of that BMW X3 in terms of cabin enjoyment, and the seats are a good bit more comfortable. BMW has MB on the transmission though, no real comparison between the two of them. The BMW glides far easier than the MB does, and doesn't come off a laboring at all, whereas the MB does have a little laboring in how it moves the car, but not bad. I do like the turbo 4 with the 48v on this GLC quite a lot, is easy to drive. It is clear that MB has figured out how to get it to come to a smooth stop as it downshifts. One thing I asked the dealership to check on our GLS is if there is a refreshed software package for the transmission. Hopefully there is and it will act as this GLC is acting. It's my only complaint about our GLS (and not that major, just annoying).

Overall, I like this new GLC. Not sure I like it enough to not buy a used one of the previous style that I really like, but at this rate on the 212, the 2024's will be "classics" by the time I'm ready to buy one anyway.

SW20S

I also really like the GLC when I have them as loaners. Haven't driven the latest one, and probably wont unless I go drive one since I have stopped using the dealer

nc211

I wouldn't have either, but MB is picking up the tab on this repair (even though the dealership outsources the work to an upholstery shop nearby). Gave us a "good will" repair since I filed a complaint for the seats over a year ago and have waited since then for them to get the design made. Hopefully no more split MBTex!

The 212 passenger side seat is in need of a new cover now though. But 9 years old, I can live with that repair (that I'll do myself, super easy to do).

I swear, MB needs to get past this issue in general. Just an embarrassment on their part!

The BMW X3 is one uncomfortable car to live with! I also don't like how it drives other than the transmission and engine power. It doesn't center well when cruising. Always having to correct it. But man, is it one uncomfortable seat to sit in. After 30 minutes my butt would go numb...

superswiss

I just spent a 4 day weekend with a 330i. Drove it over 200 miles around the Seattle area. Hadn't driven a BMW in a while and was pleasantly surprised. Can't talk about the X3, but this 330 drove great, except for the steering as you mentioned. BMW seems to have forgotten how to do good steering. The vagueness on center is disturbing and I also found myself having to correct constantly. It's mainly in Comfort mode, though. Also agree on the transmission. I'm not a fan of the ZF8 in general, but BMW does the ZF8 right. The programming is excellent. Always in the right gear and proactively downshifting when slowing down, ready to accelerate again. It reminded me a lot of the AMG 9-MCT in my C63. The latter is still on another level due to having a clutch instead of the torque converter, but the programming is excellent. The 9G-Tronic in the regular MB models is another story, though. The biggest surprise for me was the engine. I had to double-check the specs to make sure it was actually a turbo 4. So refined, torquey and barely a hint of turbo lag. Don't know how they did it, but every other turbo 4 feels crude in comparison and sounds like a rattling sewing machine. I do prefer how BMWs drive. I like my cars on the sporty side, obviously since I'm driving an AMG. The normal MB models are just too soft and floaty for me. The GLC almost makes me seasick there's so much body roll.

chassis

Agree with the comments above on the BMW B48 + ZF8HP, it’s a well matched combination.

nc211

then you’re definitely in the wrong area of this forum! 😆 You’ll need medical attention with a GLS!

One caveat that maybe was a difference between my loaner X3 and your loaner 330i - the X3 had the sport seats with the hard side bolsters and extendable piece under your knees. Not sure what the 330 had? If I were buy any car now, it definitely wouldn’t have the sport seats anymore. I’m too old, too tired, and too damn fat for them anymore. If I could slap a Murphy chair to a car frame, I’d do it in a heartbeat!

superswiss

Haha, yes I know. Had an S500 loaner not too long ago. Not for me at all. I think the 330 had sport seats as far as I remember. Regular sport seats feel like a sofa to me, though. I drive around in bucket seats, but that's not to say they are uncomfortable. I've done 12 hour road trips in them. Recaro knows how to make seats.

These are my current seats. Probably not for you. I'm 50, but fit and athletic. Avid bicycle rider, so anything is more comfortable than a bicycle saddle, LOL.

js_cls

330 and X3 share the same seats, and they both have received a good amount of criticism in regards to seat comfort (ventilated seats are even worse). Wife immediately crossed those two cars off her list because of it.

chassis

Seat comfort is pretty body-type and -size dependent. As @superswiss mentions, some folks like sport and bucket seats, others don't. Usually the "broad-shouldered" or "linebacker" builds don't like them. I like the X3 sport seats, and love the Cayenne sports seats, both of which get complaints on their respective forum sites. Both seats fit me like a glove and are comfortable after several hours of driving.

superswiss

The obesity rate in Germany is 19%, in the USA it's 42%. That kinda tells you all you need to know why people in the USA complain about seat comfort in European cars. BTW, it's 8% in China which is the number one market.

SW20S

Instead of insulting Americans, there are also simply cultural differences in what we and Germans prefer. Look at furniture. I’m not fat and I don’t like those seats either.

nc211

I had a VW GTI for over 12 years (3 of them to be exact). Sold my last one last year at a ridiculously high price to Carvana. Those were all sport car seats, and loved every one of them. The X3 was just too damn hard everywhere for me. No tailbone support for me.

I’m not fat either, but at 50 with two little kids we brought through the home schooling covid era, I’ve got one or two slices of Little Ceasers on me now. Couldnt care less either. Been married for nearly 20 years. Trust me, if she leaves, I’m buying that 911 convertible and keeping the dog, and I don’t need a six-pack for either… I will be that guy you look at and say “such a waste of a beautiful car” as I putter along.

my seat preference also syncs to my driving style lately too. I like to cruise about, not feel pressured into having to be first at the stoplight drag race. I go fast, with my cruise control. That’s one of the key reasons I finally parted ways with my last GTI, which was tuned to 320hp and all of that crap. I simply didn’t enjoy it as much as I used to. No, for me, the next “cool” car is likely a Jeep Wrangler (Sahara). The 911 convertible is a teenage poster dream that is going to stay that way…