Bought a new 2025 GLS450 in May '25 - has been great despite some minor fit and finish issues, but recently had the turtle light come on and throw an error "Performance Extremely Limited". Turned the car off and restarted and the error did not return immediately so i continued to drive it. After the error came back 2 more times in the same week, I called the dealer and brought it in for service. ODO is just over 10k miles. Dealer tried replacing spark plugs & alternator over the first week. After that they contacted MB USA for further diagnosis, and they recommended replacing the entire engine! Tech shared pics citing marks inside one of the cylinders and oil leaking in the valves. They are covering the replacement under warranty, but I'm pretty concerned that this $100k+ car needs a new engine already! Ironically, I treaded in a 22 GMC Denali XL because of the massive L87 engine recall and the 6+ month wait for replacement engines and generally how GM handled that process (poorly). Anyone here have any experience here or advice on what to ask MB when they replace the engine? Presume resale will be hurt here, so is it fair to push for a diminished value claim from MB?

 

They were talking about how replacing a major component will or not affect resale https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...mon-lawed.html

 

It's not normal, but engine failures do happen. Engine replacements actually increase the value of the car, especially if it's a brand new engine, because the new engine will have less miles than the car itself, and the assumption is that the new engine will be more reliable.

 

I find it illogical that a buyer would consider a car that needed an engine replacement at 10k miles has absolutely nothing else wrong with it. These aren't new normal wear items like tires or brakes that can boost resell value. I don't know a single buyer that wouldn't look at a full engine replacement at 9 months / 10k mi as a red flag that something serious was wrong when the vehicle was manufactured. They would likely ask what else was missed in the manufacturing process on that particular day, or what was broken or reassembled perfectly during the repair that they can't see. Pretty reasonable to expect them to expect a luxury vehicle to have a clean history - which this vehicle decidedly does not anymore. Estimates I've run on earlier model years show 10-15% diminished value in the resale market. These repairs are plainly visible in all condition reporting services (Carfax, Autocheck, etc.), so any future buyer will know and will offer less. My question for this group was if anyone has had any success with MBUSA doing the right thing for the customer here when their product was clearly defective?

 

The only thing I've seen is MB compensating the owner for the time the car was out of commission and throwing in an extended warranty. The latter would further help give future buyers the confidence that the car is actually in better condition now than it was before the engine replacement. The engines are built separately from the car. They are then pulled off the shelve to be put into a specific vehicle. So there isn't a real correlation between an engine failing and the rest of the car. They were built in a completely different location at a different time. Many parts in a car also come from external suppliers. Them failing says nothing about what might have happened when the car was assembled. Personally, I would have no issues buying a car that got a new engine at some point. Especially after some time has passed and no more major issues came to light. I use the same kinda litmus test when deciding to keep a car past its factory warranty. I'm ok with loose ends during the first 1-2 years of the factory warranty, but if the car is largely problem free during year 3 and 4, then it's a keeper and a sign that the issues it had are resolved. Complex machines break. What matters is how the repair is handled.

 

Honestly a buyer would likely never even know that the engine was replaced under warranty. Dealers choose what they report to a carfax and what they don't. Most dealers don't report repairs/maintenance to Carfax.

That would be a question I would ask them though, will this be reported to Carfax/Similar. I would get it in writing that it won't be.

 

Even if not on Carfax, it will be on the VMI. Last 2 CPOs I’ve bought, I’ve requested to see the VMI in advance. I was able to see all the MB specific work - maintenance, recalls, warranty repairs. An engine replacement will no doubt show on the VMI.

MBs obligation under warranty is to replace anything with a manufacturer defect, which they are doing in replacing the engine. You could pursue additional compensation, but not sure what they’d be willing to do.

On a separate note, I had a full engine replacement under warranty on a 2002 Grand Cherokee at like 50k miles. I expected the worse. That thing ran better than new when I got it back. Ask for the best tech to work on yours and trust the process. Good luck!

 

My concern would be that some things just may not be put back together as they should be. If it were me, I would try to get MBUSA to make you a swinging deal, taking your repaired vehicle in trade on a nice new one. Let them CPO yours and sell it to someone else.

 

Depending on where you live there is always lemon law. In NY it's 4 attempted repairs or 30 days out of service. I had a very bad Audi Q8 that I had to hire an attorney for. It wasn't lemoned but Audi agreed AFTER I hired the attorney to buy it back. The lawyer was paid because I took the buyback as opposed to going through court and getting it designated as a lemon. I just wanted to be made whole, which I was.

 

Very few people do that though. Here's the real determinator, does warranty repair history impact a MB dealer's trade in evaluation? If it doesn't...then there is your answer.

I wouldn't be worried about the new engine being installed properly. It looks complex but these guys can drop an engine in no time. Plenty of engine out repair jobs on these cars, removing and replacing the same engine or a new engine...whats the difference?

 

Agree about MB trade in as long as he wants another MB.

 

Its not just MB trade, its trade in anywhere. No dealer looks at mechanical repair history when they evaluate a trade. Why don't they look? Because it doesn't impact a car's value. If it did...they would look and deduct for mechanical repairs. Body and collision repairs do impact value...which is why they look at those.

 

Is this an indictment of the M256 in-line 6? Doesn’t the M256 use a different design on the oil pump?

 

I requested that BMW buy back our new X7 after they identified off-tolerance issues requiring new cylinder heads. This meant the engine needed to be fully removed first per ISTA procedure.

That was a BIG NO-GO for me especially after owning the vehicle for days not even months yet. As soon as the dealer told me about the fix, I sent BMW USA an email, with help from my attorney. They immediately agreed to buyback it back and on top of that (as I complained about having to wait AGAIN couple months for another car I need to shop for without my trade in), next day they offered on top of that a $15,000 USD as a goodwill for my next BMW, which I also received after getting another beemer later.

In summary: I personally wouldn't want the car after the entire engine was removed, disassembled, and reassembled. I believe that's a fair reason to request a buyback. If the company truly cares, they should buy it back, use it as a loaner for a few thousand miles to ensure it functions correctly, and then sell it. Many engine removal jobs that I'm aware of have NOT gone well. A full engine replacement is probably better if it comes fully pre-assembled. You will be shocked by how inexperienced some technicians at the dealerships are. Many independent shops are actually better. The good technicians leave dealerships to open their own spaces or work for luxury-focused independent indy shops where their experience is valued... but u can't do warranty engine job there . I see more push backs from Mbenz than BMWUSA for buyback, and it looks like it is only smooth for CA people on the Benz side (even then it takes weeks to months). For BMW, most people I know get their buyback requests processed fairly quickly even in states that wouldn't even remotely support a buyback case (as in my case). Maybe because Mbenz have too many cases to deal with anyway.

 

That’s awesome. I will never get another BMW again based on how they handled my piece of crap BMW i5. It’s worse than the Audi Q8 I owned and sued to get them to buy it back. And I had an attorney send them the letter for me. They offered 1 month lease payment and my promise not to disparage them or disclose anything about it. I refused and trash them any chance I get.

 

Sorry to hear about that.
BMW customer service is loyalty and tiered based. Not sure what your history with them is. When you call in, you will only get assigned what's known as (Premium) team (and also possibly Executive) based on your history or the car you currently won. I think for their top models (say XM, X7, all Alpinas, 7, M-models) you get assigned to the premium team, and sometimes directly to the "Executive Customer Care" if you have a long history. If you have a long history with them, you get assigned to the Executive team after just one step, and once you know the POC, then you are always connected directly with them (you phone call to the 800 number will actually go to their desks automatically too). Executive team people have decision making power or access to decisions within hours.. With light history, or lower-end models, you are at the mercy of the customer service layers (same that you get with other brands). You can't even connect directly with the decision makers. And as we know, all brands will always give you hard time for buybacks and will want to really study the case, send a tech, call the dealer, investigate deeper, before your customer loyalty becomes the priority and send you money.

I am super happy with my experience with them, but didn't mean to say that it must be the same for everyone or the absolute/normal baseline. I don't mind their "tiered" based approach because it is impossible to offer that for every single owner. I think it's fair, but the baseline customer case layer for all brands should be better for sure.

 

The buyback of my COVID 2020 GLE450 took three days from my first ever phone call to the support team listed on the website.
It would have been "next day" except for adding an allocation for my order of the AMG53. I was called back twice to update me on the progress. The Dealership was surprised that I got an allocation because it would have been a month at least, based on their experience, Fall of 2020.
No complaints, except they fast-tracked the order and locked it in two days, before I could add 3D Burmester that the SA forgot. We expected the normal week or two to Lock.

 

Any comments to this?

Is the M256 as prone to bore scoring as the M157/278?

 

Well-documented case, with history, and well drafted letter, is the key. Threatening them aggressively wouldn't help either. It's called diplomacy. My 1st and only experience with BMW went smooth cause I clearly said, hey am a customer, with over 10 cars in 10 years, looking forward to getting another beemer, but TAKE THIS ONE ASAP. Lol. Worked quickly. I recall that I got a phone call on my cell when I was in a 10 or 11AM work meeting after I had sent the email around 6-7AM in the morning before I started my day. Someone for executive team was on the phone and said he is starting to work on my case immediately, and asking if there is anything else I want to share. Later that same day after they called my dealer, I got another call in the PM asking me to verbally confirm my agreement to a buyback. I told them about the hassle of having to wait months for a car that now will be bought back, and then having to wait AGAIN for months to get another car... . So, next day I got the email I posted above for $15K goodwill. I enjoyed spending a fraction of that amount renting cars (mostly cars I liked) until I found a new ride, enjoying new-to-me rentals, and pocketed the remaining $13-14K and was super happy with the resolution: )

 

I agree you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar approach. I was very respectful, and detailed my disappointment, along with the dealer supporting me. It is difficult to defend when you have an EV that is a crap shoot in the morning if it charged overnight. Multiple photos showing notifications of charging stopped charging started at all hours of the night. Was horrible for over a year. Now it has gotten better but just last night it did it again after a software update. I can't wait to give it back. Still have 13 months left.



There are more nootications just from last night. I got lucky it eventually was charged when i woke up.

Sorry off topic. won't post about it again here..

 

This is good advice in all areas of life

 

Friend has a 2022 MB with the 2.0t engine. Went in for an oil change (30k miles) a few months ago at the dealer, which turned into a month because they found evidence of an issue inside one of the cylinders as well. MB authorized, basically, an engine rebuild to fix it (not a new engine). I still have no idea what it was, nor does my buddy who doesn't really care (money not an object to him). I will say this - that engine sounds like a farm tractor now. Does not sound smooth and healthy at all. I suspect this will be their last MB for life. He had a E63s a few years ago that ate its own engine for some random reason. He's been BMW ever since then.

 

These modern luxury vehicles that we mostly love—but sometimes hate—are so overly complex these days, which is another reason I am thrilled to have gone electric. The number of moving parts in EV’s is tremendously less than in ICE vehicles, which translates directly to significantly fewer potential problems. I understand that EV’s are not practical for everyone YET, but as battery technology advances, I am hopeful that more & more folks will experience the tranquillity (along with the blistering acceleration) of going electric as I have. AND, I was a “card carrying” member of the NEVER AN EV club—until I drove one that was done right.

 

Agree with everything you wrote, however, this part is the most important part." one that was done right". BMW can't get it for long. For me stretches of ok, followed by long stretches of crap. I had 3 Tesla Model S, and each one was great. IT is sometimes said they are a software company, and I for one believe it.

 

I also agree. ICE drivetrains feel so clunky, less refined, an outdated once you’re used to driving an EV. To me, right now, ICE drivetrains are only for long road trips and family cruisers, because you can get a proper SUV like the GLS or better that is not ICE. My daily sedan has to be an EV or nothing. I would only downgrade my sedan/daily to an ICE if it offers a lot more in comparison to the inferior drivetrains. With other brands getting access to Tesla superchargers now, I don’t think I even care about the range much. 15 minutes stop doesn’t bother me at all compared to a five minute gas station stop.
having said that as someone who’s shopping for an SUV, there are no options and I’m forced to go ICE. Luckily, for sedans, not only that the EV options are available, but they are also very best options in almost all categories small, cheap, and luxury.
I actually feel bad for buying a Honda Accord for the house when I could have bought a Tesla model 3 for even less money🤦‍♂️