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Oil analyzed results 6,300 miles (93k total on car)
I had the oil analyzed recently as we crossed over the 93k mark, results below. This is on M1 5W30 MB Spec after 6,700 miles. The oil change I did during this batch of oil included a 20 minute idling with a cup of seafoam in the old oil, then drained, then installed the new oil and ran it 6,300 miles, mostly short trips over the winter. This link explains the results as well on what's what. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-c...e-combined.pdf
Thanks for sharing. What was the objective to get engine oil analyzed?
just a check-up to decide if I want to put in a few grand into it on maintenance items and keep it for another few years, or part ways before a real problem pops up in the engine. Never had it done before, was just curious. I was also curious because I get a sweet smell sometimes in the garage after it’s been driven a bit and wanted to make sure it wasn’t burning coolant in the engine, which appears not to be doing. Google reveals the smell is actually pretty common across the brand sometimes, nothing to worry about.
just a check-up to decide if I want to put in a few grand into it on maintenance items and keep it for another few years, or part ways before a real problem pops up in the engine. Never had it done before, was just curious. I was also curious because I get a sweet smell sometimes in the garage after it’s been driven a bit and wanted to make sure it wasn’t burning coolant in the engine, which appears not to be doing. Google reveals the smell is actually pretty common across the brand sometimes, nothing to worry about.
Get that same smell, very faint. I've noticed it on my BMWs as well. I honestly think the turbos in these German cars burn up a little of the coolant after the car has been driven and the coolant is still flowing through the electrical water pump after the car is parked. The smell is 99.9999% coolant.
just a check-up to decide if I want to put in a few grand into it on maintenance items and keep it for another few years, or part ways before a real problem pops up in the engine. Never had it done before, was just curious. I was also curious because I get a sweet smell sometimes in the garage after it’s been driven a bit and wanted to make sure it wasn’t burning coolant in the engine, which appears not to be doing. Google reveals the smell is actually pretty common across the brand sometimes, nothing to worry about.
I got the same smell from my S560 and get the same smell from my S580. My independent mechanic says not to worry about it.
Now that I know for sure there isn’t any coolant blow by in the engine, I’m not concerned at all about the smell. Honestly it’s done it for quite sometime with no issues, so wasn’t terribly concerned to begin with, but seeing how well the engine is aging, this GLS is going to be with us for quite a bit longer. Honestly, other than a few annoying interior issues, this has been the best vehicle we’ve ever owned. 6 years, same battery same brakes. I never even got that with my Toyota / Lexus vehicles! I at least had to replace the pads and the battery on our former 2013 Highlander, a vehicle that I consider family duty bulletproof by all accounts. Other than tires, this GLS has asked nothing from me mechanically. I did spend a few grand at 50k for tip/tale maintenance of all fluids and plugs, money well spent!
I had my first oil analysis done just before I went out of factory warranty.
Two reasons, first was to uncover any maladies that might be covered by warranty.
And second, to decide whether to keep the car long-term, or go through that 50 to 60 thousand mile group of maintenance expenses, or replace the car. Which would include some sort of long-term extended warranty or breakdown policy.
Oil looked looked great, so I'm adding at least 4 years to my ownership projection, and will continue oil sampling.
Regarding that coolant smell. I have it as well.
It's my personal policy to make sure anything like that appears on a dealership Repair Order, even if they say not to worry.
If it turns out to be a factor, symptom or recall in the future, the factory knows that it's existed before warranty expiration.
As I’m learning more about oil analysis (first time doing it), the viscosity comment isn’t a compliment like I thought it was. It’s a signal that the oil at 6,700 miles was starting to thicken up which is the cause of sludge. Speaks to the argument against 10k oil changes, which I’ve never taken that long to do. I usually change in the 5k-6k window for all cars on full synthetic.
The counter argument is to go thinner into the 0w20 space for oil, but I am just not comfortable being that thin. Personal choice 100%, just seems too thin, especially when there aren’t sleeves in the cylinders of an aluminum engine block, but instead some type of chemical coating. If your piston scraped the cylinder wall, you could replace the sleeve. Now, if that happens, your engine is done. It’s that way for basically all of the German brands now, since around 2018ish is my understanding.
Coolant smell with MBs is common and comes from sweating hose connections commonly at the small electric auxiliary coolant pumps.
The current VAG/Porsche/Audi EA839 3.0T/2.9TTV6 has iron cylinder sleeves. Used in many models since the 2016-2017 time frame in the North American market.
The EA888 2.0T 4-cylinder uses an iron block. It is the VAG workhorse engine used in many models from VW to the Porsche Macan.
Sadly no current production German gasoline V8s that I am aware of use iron liners.
As I’m learning more about oil analysis (first time doing it), the viscosity comment isn’t a compliment like I thought it was. It’s a signal that the oil at 6,700 miles was starting to thicken up which is the cause of sludge. Speaks to the argument against 10k oil changes, which I’ve never taken that long to do. I usually change in the 5k-6k window for all cars on full synthetic.
The counter argument is to go thinner into the 0w20 space for oil, but I am just not comfortable being that thin. Personal choice 100%, just seems too thin, especially when there aren’t sleeves in the cylinders of an aluminum engine block, but instead some type of chemical coating. If your piston scraped the cylinder wall, you could replace the sleeve. Now, if that happens, your engine is done. It’s that way for basically all of the German brands now, since around 2018ish is my understanding.
I would change it at 5k. Every mechanic I have had (general, Lexus and MB) has told me not to go to 10k, my S560 had that huge valve cover repair right before 50k miles because of clogged oil separators, and my mechanic told me it was because of oil sludge in the separators causing crankcase pressure which fouled the seal. It was barely under warranty but if it hadn’t been that would have been approaching a $9k repair.
So, now I do 5k even though it’s a lease just so I don’t have to deal with that. It was 2 weeks and a return trip, big PITA.
So, now I do 5k even though it’s a lease just so I don’t have to deal with that. It was 2 weeks and a return trip, big PITA.
I wouldn't on a lease unless I had a very high chance of buying the car out. MB is the only one of the top 3 German luxury brands to not include scheduled maintenance for the first couple of years (Audi just started including this for MY26 and onwards). The typical 3 years will normally cover most lease periods.
What are some examples of worrisome oil analysis results, and what are the 50K - 60K maintenance tasks that would be consequential and remedial?
High wear metals (Fe, Cu, Cr, Al) could indicate bearing, piston or cylinder wall wear.
High Si could indicate dirt (poor filtration or dust contamination) or sealant washout. High Si is normal when new/low mileage and typically reduces and plateaus at a low level over time.
High Na or K could indicate coolant in oil.
High fuel could indicate failing rings.
Google can comment more on this, the above comments are from personal experience.
Objectively, oil analysis quantifies viscosity increase as oil breaks down normally with usage. Detergent/additive packages also break down with usage.
Anecdotally, PCV systems and intake valve deposits suffer (get worse) from higher viscosity oil which has started to break down. 5k mile OCI, using manufacturer specified oil and using 93 octane Top Tier branded (Shell, Exxon, Mobil, Chevron etc) gasoline are best practices to prevent against IVD and PCV problems.
It is well established that the PCV system is marginal on the M177 LS2 engine and is implicated in rear main seal failures. Therefore the oil hygiene described above is worth doing, considering the cost in time and $$ of potential engine problems.
Objectively, oil analysis quantifies viscosity increase as oil breaks down normally with usage. Detergent/additive packages also break down with usage.
Anecdotally, PCV systems and intake valve deposits suffer (get worse) from higher viscosity oil which has started to break down. 5k mile OCI, using manufacturer specified oil and using 93 octane Top Tier branded (Shell, Exxon, Mobil, Chevron etc) gasoline are best practices to prevent against IVD and PCV problems.
It is well established that the PCV system is marginal on the M177 LS2 engine and is implicated in rear main seal failures. Therefore the oil hygiene described above is worth doing, considering the cost in time and $$ of potential engine problems.
I understand what you're saying and increasing oil change intervals does seem to make sense. However, if Mercedes is dead set on only recommending a certain viscosity oil and the 1 year or 10k mile interval for oil change, then they have to live w/the consequences of bad reputation as it pertains to engine wear/performance (even if the competition is doing the same).
The reason I bring up the "included scheduled maintenance" for Audi and BMW is you may feel like you can squeeze in additional oil changes at customer cost. I'm not so naive to think that "free maintenance" is not already included in the purchase price of the car so nothing is really free. However, even w/o this maintenance benefit, MB MSRP still trends higher to a comparable BMW or Audi!
In my experience, synthetic oil does not sludge up the way the old dino oils did (yes, I know both are petroleum distillates). I have used synthetic oil in my '95 Jeep YJ from day 1. A year ago when I installed a new clutch, I noticed the rear main seal was seeping, and I had to drop the oil pan to access it. After 70K miles and 30 years, there was not a bit of sludge in the oil pan bottom. If your synthetic oil is sludging, you might want to be servicing your air filters more frequently than the recommended interval. I remove mine at every 5K oil change and vacuum them, and replace them at 15K-20K (even though they still look clean).
Chassis you sure the VAG are using cylinder liners? I follow a few mechanics on FB (I’m a nerd like that), and one had a 2021 Macon S and showed why it needed a new engine. Piston scrapped the wall, no liner so no way to repair other than new engine. That’s where I learned of the usage of the chemical spray on the walls replacing the liners. No argument however on the iron blocks! One of the core reasons those GTI guys can tweak out so much HP from their 2.0t! Everything else may fall apart, but not the block!
I’m glad I did this oil analysis, and feel much better in general with my 5k-6k rule of thumb for oil changes. Do I think I have sludge? Not a chance. Any signs of it previously were likely cleaned up via the seafoam in the crank case trick.
We’ve all known cars with the 10k service interval to go a long time. In-laws had a 2006 X3 that only saw the dealer once a year for service, which was about 10k-12k miles. Damn thing ran fine until they traded it in at 230,000 miles. But I would say that was the exception, not the norm. No short drives for them, always got warmed up. For us, the last 45k miles, the car basically lives in a 10 mile radius of short drives / errands.
I wouldn't on a lease unless I had a very high chance of buying the car out. MB is the only one of the top 3 German luxury brands to not include scheduled maintenance for the first couple of years (Audi just started including this for MY26 and onwards). The typical 3 years will normally cover most lease periods.
its really not much more money. It’s $150 to change the oil, if I have the car for 50k miles it’s 4 additional oil changes or $600. No big deal. I would have paid $600 not to have to deal with that repair. Plus there is always the possibility I may buy it out. I probably would have bought out that S560 but that repair scared me off.
Originally Posted by streborx
In my experience, synthetic oil does not sludge up the way the old dino oils did (yes, I know both are petroleum distillates). I have used synthetic oil in my '95 Jeep YJ from day 1. A year ago when I installed a new clutch, I noticed the rear main seal was seeping, and I had to drop the oil pan to access it. After 70K miles and 30 years, there was not a bit of sludge in the oil pan bottom. If your synthetic oil is sludging, you might want to be servicing your air filters more frequently than the recommended interval. I remove mine at every 5K oil change and vacuum them, and replace them at 15K-20K (even though they still look clean).
Chassis you sure the VAG are using cylinder liners? I follow a few mechanics on FB (I’m a nerd like that), and one had a 2021 Macon S and showed why it needed a new engine. Piston scrapped the wall, no liner so no way to repair other than new engine. That’s where I learned of the usage of the chemical spray on the walls replacing the liners. No argument however on the iron blocks! One of the core reasons those GTI guys can tweak out so much HP from their 2.0t! Everything else may fall apart, but not the block!
I’m glad I did this oil analysis, and feel much better in general with my 5k-6k rule of thumb for oil changes. Do I think I have sludge? Not a chance. Any signs of it previously were likely cleaned up via the seafoam in the crank case trick.
We’ve all known cars with the 10k service interval to go a long time. In-laws had a 2006 X3 that only saw the dealer once a year for service, which was about 10k-12k miles. Damn thing ran fine until they traded it in at 230,000 miles. But I would say that was the exception, not the norm. No short drives for them, always got warmed up. For us, the last 45k miles, the car basically lives in a 10 mile radius of short drives / errands.
Yes, the EA839 V6 unequivocally has iron liners.
The hot vee EA839 3.0T variant is becoming known for an emerging piston skirt issue that manifests in a similar way as bore scoring. Root cause is bad pistons which then fail the cylinder wall. 2.9TT variant has not been reported to have the piston issue yet. Pistons and rods and crank are different between 3.0T and 2.9TT.
The 3.0T variant with piston issue is used in the Macan S around the time frame you mention, Cayenne base and some Audis.
Not the other way around like the prior Porsche cold vee V6, well known for bore scoring and the well known tragedies which are the M157 and M278 MB engines.
I understand what you're saying and increasing oil change intervals does seem to make sense. However, if Mercedes is dead set on only recommending a certain viscosity oil and the 1 year or 10k mile interval for oil change, then they have to live w/the consequences of bad reputation as it pertains to engine wear/performance (even if the competition is doing the same).
The reason I bring up the "included scheduled maintenance" for Audi and BMW is you may feel like you can squeeze in additional oil changes at customer cost. I'm not so naive to think that "free maintenance" is not already included in the purchase price of the car so nothing is really free. However, even w/o this maintenance benefit, MB MSRP still trends higher to a comparable BMW or Audi!
MB has been living with a garbage quality reputation for 20+ years so clearly they don’t care.
People continue buying and leasing MBs and life goes on irrespective of what consumers think about the company’s quality and reliability.
Typically only the Japanese brands make any effort to maintain or improve quality and reliability. Honda uses the word “reliability” in some recent marketing collateral. No such verbiage in MB’s marketing stuff.
MB has been living with a garbage quality reputation for 20+ years so clearly they don’t care.
People continue buying and leasing MBs and life goes on irrespective of what consumers think about the company’s quality and reliability.
Typically only the Japanese brands make any effort to maintain or improve quality and reliability. Honda uses the word “reliability” in some recent marketing collateral. No such verbiage in MB’s marketing stuff.
Honda advertises to counter their weak points.
"Honda, we make it simple" was their advertisement to counter the failures and extreme complexity of their disastrous CVCC. They also had unusual transmission failures during that era, but people believed the advertising.
I had one Honda owner who traded his car on its third transmission (!) at 45,000 miles, on a Rabbit. We had to go to his shop to appraise it (as salvage) but he raved about its "reliability."
Advertising isn't an indication of quality. It's an indication of what they want the public to think.
Plazma Spray-On cylinder liners match the expansion coefficient of the block, and tend to be more reliable/durable. Heat transfer and internal friction are improved. It's just better.
Cast iron cylinder liners can be resleeved, which is their only advantage I can see. Useful on tractor trailer applications. They are cheaper to manufacture, though.
BTW my favorite Cayenne/Macan engine is the 2.9TT.
I'm pretty sure it has spray on cylinder liners, as opposed to your statement in post number 9 above.
its really not much more money. It’s $150 to change the oil, if I have the car for 50k miles it’s 4 additional oil changes or $600. No big deal. I would have paid $600 not to have to deal with that repair. Plus there is always the possibility I may buy it out. I probably would have bought out that S560 but that repair scared me off.
Depends on the car.
We all know you're an automotive engineer in sheep's clothing! I'd buy one of your used cars site unseen without worry.
Cars with turbos are harder on oil, cars with timing chains vs belts are harder on oil also. Cars with less oil capacity are harder on oil. Direct injection cars are harder on oil.
In an MB we have turbos, chains and direct injection…
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