Falco

So after only having 1 or 2 real races in the last year, i get 2 in 2 days!!! Both started the same and basically ended the same! Sitting at a stoplight next to my opponent...not sure if they are gonna go or not...light turns green and i come off the line with a little juice while holding 1st and gradually ease on more...then bam they hit it at about 30mph!!!

Vette: immediatly pulled 1/2 car length...held there through 2nd gear...shift to third and pulled another car length or so...shut down aroun 80 or 90....

GTO: from 30-60 or so pulled 1-1.25 car lengths and then held up to 80...

Fun Fun Fun!!!

Thericker

Nice kills .....You still have to run me though, I got my friend Mario willing to make the trek to LA for a race w/you & Vadim (CLK55) Vadim said best time to race him was 9-10pm, So kinda difficult to make time that late but were down for mon-thurs next week what'dya say? Mario's got the blown 1999 E55

TopGun32

C6 auto or manual?

GTO auto or manual?


good kills!

Falco

auto in both cases...from a roll though also in both cases so the auto isn't ahmpered as much if at all...

Thericker

Am I on your Ignore list or something? NO answer to my pm, or this thread? I'm just up for some friendly runs that's all man.

Falco

Haven't been chekcing too regualrly and when i do it is quick! Missed your post! I am up for it!

Vomit

Chill the estrogen. We love you, even if we don't say it often enough.

Thericker

I know, I know, I just got woried I need to hear it more often

Thericker

Kewl! will be in touch next week

AMG_55

lookin forward to it, will bring my camera.

nice kills eric, warmin up?

Falco

Thericker

That'll be great! Win, lose or draw I never get bored of racin'

alphanumeric

I once beat an C6 with the slk55 too! the C6 driver was a chick on the cellphone

she then stuck her tongue out at me..

C43AMG

............and............did you pull over and... ?

Pmoffatt

What year was the GTO and Corvette? Was the Corvette a Z06 option or standard? They must not have been trying because they have better axle ratios and the weight to horsepower ratios are better than yours.

SLK AMG app. 9.5 lbs/hp
2006 Pontiac GTO app. 9.3 lbs/hp
2006 Standard Corvette app. 7.9 lbs/hp
2005 Z06 Corvette app. 6.4 Lbs/hp

SLK55 AMG

355 HP (DIN) - Axle: 3.06 Weight: 3397.00 Pounds + Driver.

App. 9.5 lbs/HP

2006 GTO

400 HP (SAE Net) - Axle: 3.63 Weight: 3700.00 Pounds + Driver.

App. 9.25 lbs/HP

2006 Corvette (Standard)

400 HP (SAE Net) - Axle: 3.42 Weight: 3199.00 Pounds + Driver.

App. 7.9 lbs/HP

2006 Corvette (Z06)

500 HP (SAE Net) - Axle: 3.42 Weight: 3199.00 Pounds + Driver.

App. 6.4 lbs/HP

Yellow R1

Its called gearing. This has all been discussed before at nausum. The SLK55 is quicker through the quarter mile than a C6 (by about a whopping 1 - 2 tenths) due to its 7 spd transmission which keeps the power at its peak for a longer period of time (it also never misses a shift). However, a MN6 C6 is dead heat IMO (the verts & autos will get pulled by a 55 but the MN6 gets pretty much the same ETs).

The GTO? It gets crushed - its just too heavy.

-Matt

vette

there's an easy solution to that problem (C6 A6)

Pmoffatt

Yes, the Corvette and GTO's will be getting a 6-Speed automatic. That will even the gearing field a bit more. There is also an 8-Speed GTO I have seen running around my area that puts a lot of smack down.

The gearing is better in the 7G-Tronic than the other transmissions in that it has higher bottom end ratios. On that point you are absolutely right on the gearing. However with that being said that leaves much to be desired of the actual AMG engine that I and others bought. The gearing basically means that the AMG needs 22% more mechanical help to overcome something close to it on the street. The GTO and the Corvette have a big advantage in horsepower from their powerplants alone. I am fairly surprised by the numbers. After doing the numbers it occurs to me just how much gearing and mechanical assist the motor needs to be at least competitive. That's pretty much bad news for us MB owners because the GM line has a plethora of aftermarket rear end gears that can be used to compensate. The new GM six speed will compensate for the 22%(peak) gearing difference now and that means our cars just got a whole lot slower especially when figuring in the GM powerplants. I don't even want to know what the 8-Speed GTO I have seen is as the playing field may already be levelled.

The conclusion is pretty grim. GM ramping up their automatics to their engines is going to mean death to our cars. Not to mention they already can and probably will put slightly higher rear end ratios on those cars. This will take away our gearing advantage and that leaves GM with higher horsepower powerplants that are already strong.

Yes Matt you are right the gearing is better. However with GM's new transmission line with gearing more like the 7G-Tronic, the availability of higher aftermarket rear end ratios, and a higher SAE rated power plant the tide is changing.

The GTO may be heavier but on this point I am going to disagree with you. The HP to weight ratio is better for that car than the SLK 55 AMG. I am going to take my SLK 55 AMG out tonight and see if I can challenge that 8-Speed GTO running around here.

The numbers for review:

4L60E

1st 3.06
2nd 1.63
3rd 1.00
4th .70

Manual

1st 2.97
2nd 2.07
3rd 1.43
4th 1.00
5th 0.84
6th 0.57

7G-TRONIC

1st 4.37
2nd 2.86
3rd 1.92
4th 1.37
5th 1.00
6th 0.82
7th 0.73


Final Drive Ratios

GTO

Automatic

1st 11.1
2nd 5.9
3rd 3.6
4th 2.5

Manual

1st 10.8
2nd 7.6
3rd 5.2
4th 3.63
5th 3.0
6th 2.0

Corvette

Automatic

1st 10.5
2nd 5.6
3rd 3.42
4th 2.4

Manual

1st 10.2
2nd 7.1
3rd 4.9
4th 4.7
5th 3.42
6th 1.9


7G-TRONIC

1st 13.4
2nd 8.8
3rd 5.9
4th 4.2
5th 3.06
6th 2.5
7th 2.2

Automatic Side by Side:

GTO Corvette MB 7G-Tronic

1st 11.1 1st 10.5 1st 13.4
2nd 5.9 2nd 5.6 2nd 8.8
3rd 3.6 3rd 3.42 3rd 5.9
4th 2.5 4th 2.4 4th 4.2
5th 3.06
6th 2.5
7th 2.2

Yellow R1

I don't think anyone is too concerned about a GM car being faster than an SLK55. Its just not that big of a deal & it sure isn't why I bought my wife our SLK. In any case, that GTO is going to need more than an 8 Spd tranny to pull a 55. Its currently a 13.3 sec car with the MN6. SLKs are running 12.7 sec stock. Maybe more gears will help, but I doubt allow it to pull a 55. Just my opinion. If its really a big deal to you, mod your SLK a bit.

Separate topic - I do like the interiors of those GTOs. The seats & gauges looked great & I like what they did with the bland exterior (spiced it up a little). I think its an improved muscle car (has brakes & handling to match its straight line performance). The cost of those things are dirt cheap too (low thirtees I think).

See ya,
-Matt

newton22

Haha, more gears won't help. Having 8 gears alone will make you run through so many gears during accel that you'll actually lose time in shifting.

The GTO is heavy, I'm guessing some 500 lbs heavier than the SLK. Just watch out, $5k would buy you a nice supercharger for the LS2 motor, enabling those cars to kick out well over 500 bhp.

Thericker

Your exactly right except putting a blower on the LS2 will = 500+RWHP not bhp

Pmoffatt

The gears are the only thing that is helping the SLK....by 22%. I woudln't be too smug or sure about the extra gears. I mean if you think of it that way why would MB make a 7 speed instead of staying with the five speed.

How do you figure 8-Speeds is too much to go through when the SLK has 7? Does the extra two gears between the 7 speed SLK make it slower than earlier models that have 5 speeds?

You can't have it both ways, either the gearing and the 7 speed help the SLK or it doesn't. If it helps the SLK why wouldn't it help another car? The only way logically your thoughts make sense is if you believe the 7 speed in the MB looses time in acceleration too.

The powerplant is horrible in this car. The only thing saving it is the gearing. If GM matches the 7G-Tronic gearing the naysayers of GM cars will get a big smackdown.

The GTO is a heavier car but so is the E55 but people accept, understand and even dismiss the heavier E55 when it comes to weight and performance. The fact is even with the weight the GTO has a better weight to horsepower ratio than the SLK. Did you see my previous figures?

Pmoffatt

The problem is you should be worried. The SLK has a weak power plant and the gears are the only thing that make it quicker. The fact is GM is closing that gap.

Falco

Pmoffatt:



Fact of the matter is i beat them...stock...we can all talk about what is coming next year and yes, there will always be a car that is faster...but again, i beat them both.

You can do all your calculations and list all your gear ratio's, but simple fact agian remains, i beat them and the SLK55 is faster.

And your continued argument about it needing the gearing
to help with 22%...so what...are you going to start arguing that the only thing that is important is the power? "My car has 450hp but your car is only faster b/c of the gearing"!!!

Obviously, the quickness and speed of a car are due to numerous factors including power(not jsut max, but how it puts it out), gearing, weight, traction, drag, etc.

Pmoffatt

The Z06 was probably not trying but I believe what happened to you as well. I don't believe the SLK55 is faster but again thats probably why you don't like the calculations. In the 'real world' things are different but not by that much that the basics don't apply. BTW, the six speed automatic is not the future it is being put in now. I am not so sure about the stock GTO's being slower. I do know a couple of people around here with stock ones that would be willing to line up with you.

I am not arguing about the gearing I am simply stating the facts. The simple reason that this is so important is that gearing is very easily changed either aftermarket or at the factory production line. The main power plant of a vehicle is much harder to change. A manufacturer and/or an individual can make up for gearing easily. However when you start with a weak power plant such as is in the SLK55 it becomes an uphill battle. So to answer your question the gearing gains are not as important because that is the easy part. I would much rather have higher horsepower than gearing for that simple fact. Actually even though you were being a little smart that is exactly what is happening here. The SLK 55 is faster than most cars in 1st because of the gearing. The other thing that makes it important is that the AMG line is highly touted on engine power and the fact their individual engines are made by hand from one person. However the AMG engine is not the star in the show here as it is weak. The transmission and gearing are what is important and makes this car fast.

Yes the quickness of a car depends on a number of factors. Where did anyone say it didn't?

I do have to say that your response on this post was more emotionally based than anything. It reminds me of a child saying I saw it! I did! I did! I did! (which in fact no one questioned what you saw/did). Try not to take it so personally and try not to mock people seriously talking cars. If you don't like talking about vehicle mathematics, objective discussions and 'armchair racing' maybe you shouldn't post to a car bulletin board. If you can't post something constructive in a discussion at least don't post a childish mock.