E500 Kills M3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Maybe, but I consider a blown engine to be a much more serious flaw than an engine making lower-than-advertised horsepower. Further, this is not an isolated case: prior to this, BMW had a problem with the original 540 V8's... subsequent to this, BMW has had problems with the M5. So in terms of driveline and engine reliability with their hipo cars, I'd give the nod to Benz.
If you're speaking of your original point, I think the operative term is "correct", not "rephrase", as you clearly weren't aware of the M3 engine failures when you wrote it, but anyway....
Great, that's one example...but there were hundreds of the engine blowing. Across three different models. That is indicative of some QC problems, no matter how you slice it.
Yes. It's clear that rather than simply admit your original statement was wrong, and that your claim that Hakk had written something he hasn't was wrong, you're instead going to try and muddy the waters a bit....fine.
But the facts still stand.
If you're speaking of your original point, I think the operative term is "correct", not "rephrase", as you clearly weren't aware of the M3 engine failures when you wrote it, but anyway....
Great, that's one example...but there were hundreds of the engine blowing. Across three different models. That is indicative of some QC problems, no matter how you slice it.
Yes. It's clear that rather than simply admit your original statement was wrong, and that your claim that Hakk had written something he hasn't was wrong, you're instead going to try and muddy the waters a bit....fine.
But the facts still stand.
After 2k7 ALL of the cars (335 Auto/manuals 535Auto/manuals) will be running oil coolers because of this known issue.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,057
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From: NJ
2009 SL63 AMG
Hakk, I'm as crazy of a gearhead as they come, just giving credit where it is due with the I6.
The N52 is a solid piece. Was I wrong in that every single N52 off the line is problem prone...yes. Then again, show me any motor ever built that has yet to have at least a handful of problem-ridden sour eggs. Like I said, I was rationally generalizing on the majority of successful versions.
Since I do not scour the BMW boards, at the time of the post I was unaware of the handful of unhappy customers. The information I had at hand at the time were:
a. The extensive reviews and awards the N52 earned.
b. What I personally viewed with this motor and my friend's commentary after some time of hard use.
I'm interested to read something new, and the links were good reads. Didn't intend to put words in your mouth. Just saying don't base the reputation on the marginally few erroneous motors.
Cheers
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 573
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From: Toronto, Canada
540 6spd
I spend a lot of time surfing both BMW and Benz boards and the issues w/ the N54 are true. I believe the models built and sold w/o oil coolers are going to be retrofitted w/ something. IIRC they've also had some other cooling issues w/ the N54.
I've also watched the 6.2L debate and I don't know what's up with that. I haven't seen anything posted about those engines having a known problem w/ performance, although some of the dyno numbers they've put down are suspect
fwiw the 6.2L V8 in the AMG's is actually a lighter engine than the upcoming 4.0L V8 in the M3.
I've also watched the 6.2L debate and I don't know what's up with that. I haven't seen anything posted about those engines having a known problem w/ performance, although some of the dyno numbers they've put down are suspect
fwiw the 6.2L V8 in the AMG's is actually a lighter engine than the upcoming 4.0L V8 in the M3.
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CLS55 AMG
And I would also point out that for the owners in question, the fact that many other owners' engines did not fail is probably not much comfort. In fact, it might prove to be educational to actually read their comments about the treatment they received before these issues got widespread attention (due mostly to their efforts, I might add), because they were very, very unhappy campers.
Here is a history of issues from Stonewalk at the Roadfly E46 M3 forum. He's as hardcore of an M3 enthusiast as they come, and yet he was livid at the way this was handled by BMW:
http://yoy.com/yoy/auto/m3_failwhat.shtml#
The N52 is a solid piece. Was I wrong in that every single N52 off the line is problem prone...yes. Then again, show me any motor ever built that has yet to have at least a handful of problem-ridden sour eggs. Like I said, I was rationally generalizing on the majority of successful versions.
Since I do not scour the BMW boards, at the time of the post I was unaware of the handful of unhappy customers. The information I had at hand at the time were:
a. The extensive reviews and awards the N52 earned.
b. What I personally viewed with this motor and my friend's commentary after some time of hard use.
I'm interested to read something new, and the links were good reads. Didn't intend to put words in your mouth. Just saying don't base the reputation on the marginally few erroneous motors.
Cheers
a. The extensive reviews and awards the N52 earned.
b. What I personally viewed with this motor and my friend's commentary after some time of hard use.
I'm interested to read something new, and the links were good reads. Didn't intend to put words in your mouth. Just saying don't base the reputation on the marginally few erroneous motors.
Cheers
This was a collossal screwup, no matter how you slice it. Yes, they seem to have fixed it in the later runs, a good thing. But you simply don't see this happening with Mercedes engines, yet BMW engines have had issues time and time and time again. They are great-running engines, those BMW engines, and BMWs are great cars, but they clearly have some work to do in their Quality Control department wrt engines.I personallly wouldn't be lining up to purchase any first-year M car, and would be reluctant to purchase any first year car from them period, based upon what has happened in:
- Original 540
- E46 M3
- M5 and M6
and now:
- 335i.
If you can find any trend of blown engines in any recent run of Benzes, your point would be well taken. As it stands, the BMW stuff seems to be notably less robust in this department.
