MiamiAMG

hey:

KevinV

So what if his story is a little bit embellished, do you all need to jump on his nuts for that. You don't think all the other posts about Mercedes killing other cars are embellished too. Take it as it is, a story told by one person point of view and stfu cause you weren't there.

Improviz

I shall leave you to them. My level of intelligence is certainly higher than someone who'd buy a passat in the first place, let alone come to an MB forum trying to convince people that they'd only been beaten by 9 car lengths in a 60-120 race by a C55!

Enjoy the passat, and if that fails, you will always have your delusions of grandeur keep you entertained!

Over and out!

Improviz

...I own a CLK55, dontcha know, and I have actually roasted a few passats in my time. And even if I hadn't, it's a pretty simple matter to use the 1 carlength per tenth rule to estimate that a C55 running a 13.1 would take a 16.5 second passat by 34 carlengths (that's 3.4 seconds, or 34 tenths, times one carlength/tenth if you're fuzzy on math) in a 1/4 mile race.

This gap would *increase*, not decrease, as speeds increased! Race a CLK55 from 0-60 and then from 60-120 and see how far ahead he is each time if you don't believe it...I've been in enough races, down low and up high, to know what I'm talking about, and to know when I see it.

Plus, I know the distance involved was longer than 1/8 mile, the distance that would truly have resulted in a nine carlength margin between the two cars, because there's no way, no how that a 200 hp, two ton passat could run from 60-120 in less than two miles!

In a 60-120 race, the gap would be 9 747 lengths, not 9 carlengths.

Hey, go over to the passat forum and tell them that you hung with a passat in a yugo or something like that...hell, we were gentle with this spinner of tall tales compared to what they'd do!

Over and out!

Sleestack

Improviz... first of all, the A6 doesn't share the same platform as a Passat. The A4 does. I have a couple of Mercs and an Audi
A6 4.2. I prefer my CLK (even though I haven't seen it in over 1 year), but there's nothing wrong with Audis. My car pulls pretty good with it's V8 and the AWD system is fantastic. The interior is also better than my wife's W210 E320. Nevertheless, I think the guy was trying to give props to the C55. You can't really tell a whole lot from street races. The guy in the C55 might have been cruising in 4th or 5th gear, or simply might have been reluctant to risk getting into an accident or ticketed just to prove a point. In any case, who really cares?

Improviz

Maybe edmunds.com was wrong; I was going by their article on the 99 a6:Edmunds passat (oops, A6) test: 0-60 in a lightning-like 9.7 seconds!!

Yes, Audis have nice interiors, and are nice cars, even though their handling suffers from hanging their engines waay out over the front wheels for the quattro system, but that's not the issue.

The issue is that this guy came in here and posted an obviously-embellished-to-the-point-of-being-ridiculous race story, and then gets all huffy and rude when some of us point out the obvious guffaws in his story. Well, what did he expect? It is a ridiculous story, by any measure. Look at the edmunds test above: 9.7 seconds 0-60?!?! That's over *double* the time a 400hp C55 would take. Not even in the same universe, let alone ballpark, which is why I gently pointed out that 9 carlengths did not sound credible.

And if you'll read my first reply, I was hardly rude. It was only in response to his increasing rudeness that I decided to have a bit of fun with him. It's all meant in a humorous vein, even if he doesn't see it that way.

dswildfire

the only ridiciulous thing in here is your constant effort to try to prove that you are somehow justified in jumping all over him. like kevin said, you weren't there. and so what if it's embellished? do you honestly think that every story in every kill story forum is 100% accurate? if you think so, look up gullible in Webster's Collegiate Edition. i'm sure there will be a nice picture of you there. back off of the guy. if you read his post, he did nothing but say the car was awesome. that's it. it's posts like yours that make all the haters on e46fanatics justified in their hate.

Improviz

3) read HIS response to that response. In my first post, I simply made an observation, namely that the reason OTHER people had issues with his story, was that the nine-carlength difference he was claiming sounded like a stretch. It was AFTER he started jumping my sh*t and acting rude that I got annoyed and had a bit of fun with him.

You may be a turn-the-other-cheek type, but I am not, and if someone starts jumping my sh*t, I'll give as good as I get. If he doesn't like people criticizing his posts, he might try to make them a *little* bit more credible.

And no, I don't think every kill story is 100% accurate, but this was a zinger.

Personally, I think we were pretty damn gentle with him, compared to the reaction he'd get in other forums. You think we were hateful?? Why don't you try going to the e46M3 forum or the M5 forum and post a thread that after a 60-120 rolling race with one of those two cars in your C230, you were only 9 lengths back, and see what sort of reaction you get? I can promise you, what happened here would seem like rolling out the red carpet in comparison.

I can also promise you that you wouldn't have a bunch of whiny BMW owners defending your bullsh*t story and criticizing other BMW owners for pointing out how ridiculous it sounded.

This is how Internet forums work. If someone posts a bit of bs, they get ignored. If someone posts something patently ridiculous, people tend to point it out. It is this way in each and every car forum on the web. Deal with it. If you want Mary Poppins, log off and go rent the bloody movie.

E55AMG99

Ahmed

some how i agree with improviz all the way. Come on guys, take some chill pills and relax. If its BS, then lets laugh it off! If its for real, yet maybe misunderstood, then so what... the guy's a passsat owner, what the hell does he know about AMG's!

Sleestack

I don't think you were rude and certainly am not one to mince words either. I just tend to think kill stories are useless and uninformative unless they happen on a strip or a track.

As for the Audi engine placement.... while i can't speak for the W211, I can tell you that the A6 handles much better than the W210 and doesn't suffer from the lack of chassis rigidity found in the W208. My 4.2 is a heavy car at almost 4,000 lbs, but it handles much better than I expected. The 4.2 is marginally slower than a BMW 540i and shines in wet conditions. Enough with the tangent.... I just want my 700 hp CLK back so I can resume wreaking havoc on highway 280.

Improviz

...I don't know by what measure you're comparing the two, but I've had extensive seat time in B5 A4's and S4's, B6 S4, and several versions of the A6, and while I'd agree that Audi has done a marvelous job of handling chassis dynamics in cars with 60/40 f/r weight bias, you can only mask that sort of distribution so far, and those cars simply don't handle tight turns as well as an RWD car with 50/50 (or close to that) weight distribution.

Now, high-speed sweepers are another matter, and in those, the Audis handle fantastically, definitely world class. It is really only in the tight ones that the bias rears its ugly head. Although you can forget about " fun with oversteer" in them, although the B6 S4 is better in that regard than past versions. But as you point out, the Quattro system is fantastic.

And at least in comparing the chassis rigidity of the CLK55 to the Audis, imo there is no comparison: the Audis invariably have much more body roll and lean in the turns, in my experience, while the CLK55 has virtually no roll and has a much more neutral cornering aspect. I also noticed much more flex over rough stuff in the A-series cars, though again the B6 is much improved in this department.

Anyway, I do like Audis, I was just pulling his chain. Their interiors are pretty much the best in the biz...if they'd manage to market their cars half-assed effectively, get a bit more competitive in performance in their non-S models, align their product releases with their competitors', and stop blurring the lines between VWs and Audis, they'd pump up their resale values and keep their customers happier. I know a lot of A4/A6 folks who were seriously pissed and basically walked when the upgraded Passat came out.

On a more positive note, did you say 700hp? What mods have you got on that thing? Sounds like a real beast!

zackiedawg

Several points...

First of all, to Auditude and Sleestack: The A6 does indeed share the same B5 platform as the Passat and A4...each is stretched to a different wheelbase, but are indeed platform mates (B5 platform = Passat, previous A4, A6. B6 platform = new A4. A4 platform = Golf Jetta, GTI, TT. etc.) Nothing is wrong with that - it is a very good platform...safe and rigid. The A4 is the smallest wheelbase version of that platform, while the Passat is stretched slightly, and the A6 a bit more, with larger overhangs. In Europe, the Skoda Superb also shares this platform, with the wheelbase somewhere between that of the Passat and A6...giving 4 different wheelbase versions of the same B5 platform.

Second: Your race occurred with a 2.8 30V V6 A6, correct? This is a 190HP engine with 195Lbs of torque (shared as an upgrade engine in the previous A4 line as well as the Passat). I had a 2000 Passat with this same engine, and although it has nice cruising capability, smooth power delivery, and decent mileage - it certainly is not a drag racer, nor the engine to have when racing performance cars. I too had a tip, and even in my lighter Passat, there is no way on Earth I could stay within 20 car lengths of any current AMG tuned Mercedes if the driver was making any effort at all. Not saying BS...I read the story...I'm just saying that he was either not a very good driver, was scared to go too much faster, or wasn't really giving anywhere near full throttle.

Third: What is you people's problem with Passats!! They are very nice, midsize German sedans for a reasonable price. They drive nice, are safe, well equipped, and feel a damn-sight more secure and solid than any sedan out of Japan. Is it a Mercedes? No...but it also doesn't come with a Mercedes price tag! I love my CLK, and I love my W8 Passat Variant...they are both well built, nice looking, solid German cars at different price points and for different purposes.

Fourth: My current W8 Passat has 275HP and 275Lbs torque, and will handily beat a V6 A6, by many car lengths. It handily beats the acceleration from all gears of my V6 Passat I owned before it. Yet, it would be ridiculously spanked by a CLK55, C32, or SLK32 from any speed. Take it from me...if my much more powerful and lighter variant doesn't have a prayer of keeping up with a C32, your A6 variant would really be lost in the rearview mirror. If this guy went one better, and was driving a homemade C55...he could pull away, head home, park, shut off the car, go inside and change, and watch the first 10 minutes of Friends before you'd find him...assuming he really was using his car's full potential.

Fifth: You mentioned that you own several Benzes and apparently two Audis...a stock A6 Variant with a V6, and a 4.2 V8 A6. If you are having fun, looking for some other cars to have a little dice-up with, why not use the 4.2 V8...it will do much better than the V6. But it still won't be able to stay within 10 car lengths of a C32, let alone a C55.

Now people...understand that some of us own Mercedes AND another marque. VW is a fellow German car maker, who produces some very nice, solid, relatively inexpensive compact and midsize vehicles...and Audi is a nice upscale partner producing respectable mid-luxury sedans and wagons for middle-upper families and executives. That doesn't take away anything from the awesome heritage of Mercedes, and the great products they build...so why the hate?

My VW Trends autozine sits proudly next to my Mercedes Moments autozine on my coffee table!

zackiedawg

ACK! Double post!

Sleestack

Zackie... I think you are confusing me and the original poster. I only have one Audi, my weekday driver, a 2002 4.2 A6. I know it's limitations as it is 4000 lbs and only putting out 315 hp and 313 lb/ft torque. I consider it a car that keeps me out of trouble. With its gearing, it is built to be a highway cruiser, not a speedster. As for the chassis, the A6 is built on a C5 chassis, not a a B5 chassis, however, for all I know the C5 is derived from the B5.

Improviz... I never said I thought the A6 handled great. I just said that it handles well for a 4000 lb car and handles better than the W210. I also have H&R coilovers which definitely make a huge difference over the stock sport suspension. As for the chassis rigidity, I'm not talking about body roll as much as I am about the actual rigidity of the chassis. The W208 chassis is not very rigid. My CLK has been fitted with a chromaly rollcage to address that issue. As for the CLK55.. I think the stock suspension is very soft and creates quite a bit of body roll. I had Kleemann shocks and H&R springs on my CLK, which greatly improved the suspension.

As for 700hp... yes. My car has been with Evosport for a year now and will soon be ready to roll. It will be a 6.3 liter supercharged V8 with custom ECU, transmission, coilover suspension, interior, exterior, chromaly rollcage, etc. All of the engine parts have been custom manufactured by some of the best in the business. No audio/video, as I don't see the point in a 700 hp car with a roaring engine, but just about everything else has been modified.

zackiedawg

Aah...

you're the one with the 4.2.

I thought I saw a follow up post by the original threadstarter about owning a 4.2.

Sorry for the confusion.

Oh, and yes...it was my understanding that the C5 was a strecthed B5...so I consider that the same platform (since the Passat is a stretched platform from the A4, yet still called the B5).

And your 700HP beast sounds awfully fun!

Improviz

But yeah, A6's handle very well for big, heavy sedans. And supposedly, the RS6 handles better than the new E55, and gives the M5 a run for its money in that dept...

Sounds like you've got a fun ride coming up with that CLK, though...enjoy, and post some videos when you get it back!

Improviz

I have several friends who have Audis, and I know the Passat dig hacks them off, so I decided to take a dig at the original poster with it, after he started getting in my face. I really do like Audis, and VWs are *outstanding* values in their segment, really great cars.

Anyway, good points. Have fun!

MiamiAMG

Zack, you make some very good points.. Personally, i like Audis & VW's, they make great cars. I especially love the Tourag. I dont think anyone here was bashing the car brand, it was more of bashing this guys story, which was a little too far-fetched.

zackiedawg

Gotcha...no problem. I didn't really get offended by it...I was just wondering. I always seem to come upon threads with comments against VW, Audi, or BMW (mostly VW), and never quite understood if it was really negative feelings or just joking around.

Having spent alot of time in the VW forums too...they often use Honda as their bashing post, and they really do seem to despise them, so when I hear VW being used as the whipping boy for the MB guys, I assume they really mean it!

Anyway...I love both of my German cars...one for the commuting, carrying loads, long trips, etc., and one for the fun-in-the-sun, weekend cruising.

Auditude

I've been kicking back and watching my post grow and grow. Overall, many of the replies have been respectable and acceptable. You post something and somebody's going to reply, if you're lucky enough to have posted something interesting, in support or in disapproval of your topic.

In re: my initial post, I don't believe I singled anyone out nor did I bash any member or marque. In fact, I gave glorious props to the owner/driver of the C55 that I "tried" to chase.

I made several things clear in that post:

1) that I was "trying" to keep up. I was surprised at how close (relative) I was able to stay UNTIL the sea parted. So 8-9 might have been 10-12 cars from above, maybe more, but in traffic at the rate of speed we were travelling that's still too close for "safe" driving. Put yourself in my position, with adrenaline flowing and at that rate of speed, distance can be covered very quickly and might seem distorted while trying to "race".

2) I stated that there was commute traffic, intermittent spurts and cars surrounding both of us...I made this comment and reiterated that if we WERE on a track, I would have turned tail and run. Again, we were on a highway with cars present (stupid for both drivers to have pursued any spirited driving) and NOT on a track.

3) Improviz, you mentioned that I, "Got in your face", believe me, you would know if I was ever in your face. It was your posts which seemed to provoke a response from me...I provided proof that the C55 existed after you and several others said that I was "seeing" things. I read this thread front to back to make sure that I did not "step" on anyone's toes before I got in the ring because I no longer am an owner of an MB. I joined when I was, and have enjoyed the forum on occasion but felt compelled to post this "kill" story on the C55's owner's behalf. I am wary of my surroundings, and am very aware of an "outsider" posting in home turf is much like graffitti over your name on the wall. I feel as if I was respectful to a point to where I had no choice but to defend my car and my experience. Honestly, who WOULD post a "spanked" story, I did.

4) I have no doubt that a C55, old or new, would have had me as a crumb on the table in a track or drag strip but "street" races have many things to consider, two of them being the environment (which will include cars, pedestrians, obstacles and COPS) and the experience of the driver. Just as anyone will tell you, "Power is nothing without control"...no question about this, the C55 has the nuts to squash plenty of cars much more worthy to a race than mine but sometimes you pick the right line or lane and you can get pretty close to or even ahead of the car you're racing...I used to ride a TZR250, Ducati 916, Race Spec ZX7RR, raced at Willows and Sears some trophies and some losses but more so the experience as a "driver". This still doesn't justify my ignorance and shananigans on the highway but I'd say I've got more "driving" experience than the average AMG owner and motorist on most roads. There is demographic and statistical evidence that supports that. Just look at who MB markets the AMG to, you think they had me in mind? Doubt it with that price tag.

At any rate, embellished or not, several have made the point to take my initial post with a grain of salt. You can take it for what it's worth, though I'll keep it as a fond memory of fun with a C55 AMG conversion.

Maybe the owner was the "new" owner since the car was up for sale on Ebay and maybe he hadn't been familiar with it's capabilities yet. No doubt that I definitely had a few years on this "younger gentleman", his face had that "surprised" expression. Kinda like, holy *****, I didn't know this car was that fast...funny, because I had the same expression on my face when I pulled up to him and gave him the thumbs up.

The only part that really bothered me were your posts implying that the car you drive illustrates and dictates your level of intelligence. From reading your other posts, I can deduce that you DO have more than two cells working at once and your post was merely to attempt to insult me and any other passat/audi owner...again, taken with a grain of salt, kind of like your foot...lol

You provided technical info, which is all fine and dandy. but when it's seat of the pants, first hand experience, it all goes out the window. If I seemed bragodocious about my "driving" ability, sorry, but so what. Who isn't when they post on here...I am still trying to get a hold of that C55 owner just take some of this heat off of me but that's what I get. You didn't see me disrespecting him in any way did you?

Keep in mind, I was never rude until poked and prodded; your fellow MBWorlders made it clear when they told you to STFU as they read this thread and drew their own opinions. I, on the other hand, just sat back and watched you shoot yourself in the foot.

I only asked you to kiss my pASSat...and to insert foot, in either order...it might be pretty hard to get up with Ahmed all over your nuts.

Take this for what it's worth, pie in the face, a shot in the arm or maybe more appropriately named, a waste of text.

All I wanted to do was to "share" my delightful experience with a C55 AMG conversion...this thread has morphed into a totally different beast. Too bad, it really was a great run.

Improviz

From your very first post, you were bragging about how you had kept up, even up through your third, wherein you again implied that your car wasn't THAT far behind...8-9 car lengths at 115-120mph is almost on his a$$ in traffic., and posted the weight/hp of both. Again, implying that this was a true race, (which you *now* freely admit it was not), just as you did in your first post, when you said Not too bad for an outta shape heavyweight, grocery getter eh?. You also made the a point of mentioning that your car was "bone stock".

I again ask: if your intention wasn't to try to make people think you'd done a better job keeping up with him than would be physically possible for your car, then exactly what was it? I understand that you also were heaping kudos on his car, which is fine and dandy, but it certainly doesn't change the fact that you also made this implication, in more than one post. If he wasn't really racing you, what bearing does the relative position of your car to his have?? Why did you make the "not bad" claim?? What relevance does the fact that your car is "bone stock" have? I would really, really like to hear you answer these questions and explain to all of us what, exactly, you were trying to imply by going to the trouble to raise these points.

But you will note, that before this, I said nothing. The first post I chimed in was the following:

Did you happen to catch the phrase grey market car? Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this phrase?? It means a car imported outside of normal circles, i.e., rather than implying you were "seeing things", I admitted that it was a possibility!! I did make a JOKE, hence the smiley face, about there also being a possibility of your having poor eyesight, but you don't seem to have much of a sense of humor, so I'm not surprised that you didn't catch that.

My second post came after you'd gotten all testy when someone pointed out that in a 60-120 mph race, a C55 would be 80-90 carlengths ahead of you, again putting a smiley face, which FYI in Internet-speak generally means "I'm using *humor*" (I would assume that this is obvious, but you don't seem to realize it). In response, you jumped down his throat in a tirade, making defensive, snide remarks:

A few facts: 1) NOBODY had made a derogatory remark about your car before this; 2) NOBODY had made any claims of MB "superiority", or in any way implied anything about your car, OTHER than the two salient facts, which are both TRUE, namely that A) the C55 was never sold "officially" in this country, and B) a true C55 is *significantly* faster than your car, & that a 9 carlength distance from a rolling start 60-120 run seemed far short of what one would expect in such a race.

So, what do we get in response? Your acting, absurdly, as though WE were coming off as though we were a superior form of life, calling our posts a "waste of text", etc...in response to what? A few jokes and truthful observations??

It was only after this ridiculous outburst that I pointed out, accurately, that the margin of victory you were claiming was unreasonable given the performance capabilities of these two cars. I was polite, and illustrated my point with factual presentation, using documented performance results for the two vehicles. Your response: more hostility, accusing me of not reading your post, and "eating feet". So, finally, I decided to have a bit of fun with you, since imo you had resoundingly earned a bit of hostility by this point.

And you claim we're hostile? Get a clue. You are the person who started the hostility, and maintained it. Big surprise that people returned some of it your way...if you start slinging sh*t around, don't be surprised if you get hit by some.

The point is, you first came in here trying to make it sound like you'd kept within 9 carlengths in a 60-120 mph run with a Benz which was never sold legally in the US, when simple math shows that the victory in such a race would be far, far greater than that, and lo and behold (gasp), a few of us smug, superior, arrogant Benz owners had the audacity to actually raise *questions* about these claims!!

It was only *AFTER* the absurdity of your nine carlengths claim was pointed out that you admitted that it wasn't really a race, which showed that your earlier "not bad" and "bone stock" claims to be absurd, which is probably what set you off.

And even now, you continue to make rude, derogatory remarks about anyone who dares to agree with me being "on my nuts"...you really, really need to grow the hell up.

Ahmed

Auditude

why dont u just forget about the whole thing, go do what it is u usually do and keep enjoying those fantasy street races that you so much love sharing with others!

As for our benz owners here, i dont even know why they're wasting their time and effort on this thread?

In conclusion, ur post was pathetic, your attitude towards honest sincere remarks was pathetic, ur insecurity about everything else is pathetic.... and how you ended up looking at the end of all this... i gotta say was.. (u got it) PATHETIC!

Ahmed

come to think of it....

ur whole story about this race could have been one big BS! And when u got creamed about how stupid ur comments were about it all.... u went on the net, typed C55 on the search engine and got this "conversion C55" to flag around as proof!

i dont buy your story and thats it. SIMPLE!

so why dont u hop into ur passat and drive along! PORKY!

moomeh

ok..................