Ahmed

members here are like family to me, so i plan to stay! Another question would be... how long will you last with that kind of an attitude?

schwarzwagen

I was being funny, its not my fault if someone goes ballistic. I thought the crack thing was funny. hahah!

There is a big difference between trying to be funny and someone going nuts on you. No hypocracy in that. So defaming someone's character is a good thing? Gimme a break.

ohya

This might be your only family. Keep talking like it's right or you will be rejected. BMW forums hate your guts.

Ahmed

Well then.... I'm content!

Wheres yours?

ohya

A guy that drive a M5 seems pretty low about himself. You are already concern of my family. You have a big one that uses in the mouth.

Ahmed

Can someone please translate?

ohya

I guess you're not all gay. sorry

clkal

i think the bottom line is this : who gives a F*CK about the specs of either car. It's a no-brainer which car anyone would rather own ....... BENZ , baby! how can you even put the 740 in the same class as the S500????

Ahmed

actually!

its funny you should say that cause thats exactly what i used to think! Until a few hours ago!

raced a spanking new 2004 S500 with AMG kit in my 740iL and spanked its *** by a good 2 car lengths from ZERO to 170 km/h !

here's my champ!

Belmondo

Post links to every mag that you have seen That posted the W140 S500 at 7.2 now or be gone forever, dufus. Even if in your dream you ever saw anything remotly stated about actual 7.2sec how do you know that they are not just stating MB's factory numbers, dufus? No fking way
Car and Driver or Motor Trend or any ohter car mag were racing W140 S500 0-60------that is BS that could only come from a sore loser with 300sel. I have never seen any tests in mags about W140 s500 that stated that yes we could not do any better than 7.2sec. I see where you are coming from---while the russian dude stil can race and beat many cars in his old W140 s500 you are in your 300sel being raped by Honda Civics and Toyota Corolas evry day.
Cut hte bull crap dufus.
And yes, BMW lies and lies a lot as this owner of new 745 learned for himself. Read and weap, dufus:

Author:
sk on 2003-08-15 at 15:38:59 (posted from: Host: IP: 195.229.241.166)

Subject:
BMW 745Li vs. Merc S500 Acceleration (long) (1292 views) (1931 thread views)
Message:
Well I've had my 745 for around two and half months now, and really enjoying it. So two days ago, a friend of mine who owns a 2002 S500 with the full S55 AMG body kit (19" high profile tyres, AMG rims, AMG side skirts and spoilers, etc..) said he thought his S500 could beat my 745 in straight line acceleration. Knowing that my 745 can accelerate to 60mph faster than his S500 I was pretty confident of proving him wrong. So off we went to a deserted long stretch of road and did straight runs from standstill to roughly around 180km/hr (112.5mph). And to my amazing astonishment his S500 handily beat me by a car length every time, we did the run atleast 10 times and the result was the same every time. We both had our A/C's off, I selected Sports mode a couple of times and used steptronic a few times but the result was the same. And yes this was flat out acceleration all the way up to 7000 rpm. Now my 745 has only done around 2300 km (1437 miles) while his S500 has done around 13000 miles. Could it be that my engine isn't yet at optimum level of operation?? Is there any explanation anyone can offer, or is the S500 actually faster than the 745 even withstanding a 30hp deficit????

DslBnz

OMFG...Who was there when this stuff happened? Who are you guys to say that soviet is wrong? If you were not there, then what place do you have to say he lied? Why would he purposefully lie to get flamed.

Conditions vary depending on environoment. To state bluntly. This is really foolish, folks.

Thericker

His 1999 740IL 18" bmw wheels(he said it was stock, but right before we raced he admited having a chip!)
Mine 2001 S500 power chip tuned, w/real oem S55 AMG quad tipped cat-back exhaust 18" Lorinsers

We raced 3 times from 0-60 I destroyed him by 3-4 lengths the 1st, a solid 3 lengths in the 2nd and on the last I turned off ESP and beat the crap outa him by an easy 4-1/2 lengths!

I live in Santa Barbara, Ca and there's really not that many places to go all out w/out getting cops all over your ***.... needless to say I put this BMW **** to bed!! I can't imagine how bad it would of been if we could've raced to 100mph, he said will race again on a less busy weekend, it wont matter I just wanna see how many car lengths I can beat him by...

s0vietbenz

Could it really be, that a c32 is slower then a m3? By forum posts, the c32 beats the m3 every single time. but magazine's say that m3 flys past c32. I don't really understand this, guys just don't flame me because it really does tick me off that people don't believe a person that raced another car first hand. I beat that 740iL and I was damn glad about it, even to tell you guys on the forum. Don't flame others because it accualy does make you a bit pissed off. Sorry for flipping out but you just can't go and flame every single kill story there is. If any of you have a w140 s500 go ahead and race a 740il.

Improviz

Hmmm...schwarzwagen, I don't know what mags you have been reading, but here are some actual performance tests for the S500:

Motor Trend, 5/03:
0-60: 6.00
1/4 mile: 14.40

Car & Driver, 5/03 (4Matic version):
0-60: 6.10
1/4 mile: 14.60

Motor Trend, 7/02:
0-60: 6.57
1/4 mile: 15.10

Autoweek, Apr-02
0-60: 6.00
1/4 Mile: 14.50

Car & Driver, 5/99:
0-60: 6.10
1/4 mile: 14.60


Also, in both 2001 and 2002, MB spec'd 0-60 for the S500 at 6.1 seconds, so I don't know what crack *you've* been smoking, but unless this is a race with the previous-gen S500, the results are not out of the question. Also, curb weight of the new S500 is not 4,800 pounds; it is 4,170 per manufacturer.

Finally, a few data points of the 740:

Motor Trend, 10/00 (740il)
0-60: 6.60
1/4 Mile: 15.00

Manufacturer's rating, 2000 740i and 740 il: 0-60: 6.90

Unfortunately, the source wasn't as comprehensive for the 740 as the S500, so
this is all I've got for it...

schwarzwagen

uh.... we are talking about a W140 1995 S500 not a W220 1999-present S500...

schwarzwagen

interesting.

also interesting.

that one takes the cake!

Belmondo: please click here

Improviz

Does he state that it's the older model somewhere? He sure didn't in the post which started the thread.

Even if it is the older model, it is hardly a slug:

S500 Car & Driver 8/95
0-60: 6.60
1/4 Mile: 15.00

This is considerably quicker than the 7.2 you're claiming.

schwarzwagen

Soviet's profile says he drives a 1995 S500...

w220:
w140:
So, judging from your sources the w140 is pretty much the same as the w220...

Improviz

...but anyway, as I pointed out, the Car & Driver test from 1995 certainly makes his story plausible, particularly if the 740 had passengers as he stated.

As to whether the two are the same: I guess if you look at only the one test you cited...if otoh you average out the test results for the newer one, it's clear that it's faster, as one would expect given its lighter weight. My point was that the old one seems to be fairly quick as well.

Going strictly by weight/horsepower, they break down like this:

1995: 4760/315 = 15.11 lbs/hp
2002: 4133/302 = 13.68 lbs/hp

So, obviously the new one should be notably faster, as it was in most of the tests. The Motor Trend test was a bit on the slow side.

But the real issue here is whether or not it is possible for a 1995 S500 with driver only to have killed a BMW 740il with two passengers. So, getting back to weight/horsepower, for the 740il we have (2001 model):

4288/282 = 15.20 lbs/hp. So, right off the bat, we see that the 1995 S500 has a better weight/horsepower ratio, meaning that even without the 740il having two passengers, the Benz had an edge. *And*, as the poster wrote, the 740il had two passengers, which would saddle it with an even worse ratio. Assume each driver and passenger weighed 175 pounds, and you'll get :

S500 w/driver: 4935/315 = 15.66 lbs/hp

740il w/driver & two passengers: 4813/282 = 17.07 lbs/hp.

A difference of 1.4 pounds/hp would lead me to expect the exact outcome that the original poster is describing. One does not need to smoke anything to see this: physics works just fine.

schwarzwagen

How much is 3 car lengths by 95? Seems to me that 3 car lenths is an eternity. In my experience an E46 M3 SMG only got 1 car length on my friends '01 S55 from 0-80. Albeit, 1 S-Class in length is a lot, There is a 1 sec difference between those cars to 60, so I took soviet's original post with a grain of salt anyway.

The intent of my original post was to say that under like conditions the 740 is faster than the S500. Then all hell broke loose. Weight did play a clear role in this battle as you state, and I already stated as well (i.e. the bus comment).

Those are some fat friends I don't have any friends above 150. Never-the-less, we can only guess how much the cars weighed... gearing plays a role, driver skill, ambient temp, etc. and around and around it goes.

Improviz

Well, typically the rule of thumb in drag racing is that each 1/10 in time comes out to about one carlength at the end of a 1/4 mile race. I think that the difference between an SMG and an '01 S55 would be more like 0.5 seconds under the best conditions (i.e., with a pro at the wheel); as I recall, they tested at 5.0 and 5.5 respectively...but real-world, the guy driving the M3 probably wasn't pro-caliber (few drivers are, frankly), so the thin margin of victory there doesn't come as a surprise. It's pretty easy to lose a few tenths!

Quote:

The intent of my original post was to say that under like conditions the 740 is faster than the S500. Then all hell broke loose. Weight did play a clear role in this battle as you state, and I already stated as well (i.e. the bus comment).

Yeah, but weight/hp is a great predictor of performance, and as I pointed out before, empty both cars' weight/hp ratio is virtually equal, with a slight advantage to the Benz. Unless the 740 is geared much more agressively than the Benz, it should be a tie, as the 740's weight advantage is offset by the Benz's horsepower advantage.

Quote:

Those are some fat friends I don't have any friends above 150. Never-the-less, we can only guess how much the cars weighed... gearing plays a role, driver skill, ambient temp, etc. and around and around it goes.

LOL, I would say that you've got skinny friends! I was using my old college weight as a example: I am 5'11", and at that time weighed about 175 with a 33" waist. Since then, I've gained about 20 pounds from weightlifting, but I was no monster in those days...anyway, even if you drop it to 150, the Benz still has the advantage. Agreeably, we'd have to know all factors involved, but an 0.3 second margin of victory isn't huge in a 0-80 race, particularly with the delta in weight/hp. The two cars start about equal, and piling extra weight on the 740 would cost it bigtime.

Anyway, I've already spent more time on this than I meant to, so I'll just leave it at that.

schwarzwagen

I guess that means, conceivably, that I would not loose a race due to a weight disadvantage then, LOL! At least, I would not be able to use that as an excuse... as Belmondo so eloquently pointed out, my car is not exactly what I would call a paradigm of performance.

The 740 does have a 5-speed auto with a more aggressive diff over the 4-speed in the S500 and its less aggressive diff, but as you say that would be belaboring the point.

DarrenCT

bla, bla, bla we all hear the same song every time 1of us whip a "bimmer" - clk55, c32, s55, s500, e55, or what have you. nobody likes to lose, but i do find that bmw people take it especially hard when it happens. my personal favorite for spanking an e46 m3 is..." well you have 8 cylinders, i only have 6, and for $20k more, it SHOULD win" -that's classic. i do like seeing the stats, though, rather than having to do a search on each and every model, we all can just look here. nice kill soviet

Improviz

Hehee...yeah, if your friends are that skinny, you're out of luck!

I didn't realize that the S500 had a 4-speed auto to the 7-Series' 5...you are correct: this would definitely tip the advantage to the Bimmer, given that the hp/weight is the same! I'd expect the extra gear to net the BMW anywhere from 0.25-0.5 seconds....in which case I'd agree that this sounded fishy...

Well, now you've got me curious...does anyone have the gearing/drive info for the S500?? Also, did the 740 have a five speed for its entire model run? If so, consider my mind officially changed...

ohya

Automatic sucks