Originally Posted by S23O5C15

An E46 M3, for example, can outrun a 996 C2 in a straight line,

Originally Posted by prodigy1387

so my best friend has a 2000 bmw 323i, 5 speed. he talks his car up so much, which i don't mind, ya know, it's a nice car, it's got a decent pick up, i generally like it. and he is knowledgeable about cars, so i give him the benefit of the doubt.

one night we raced. i beat him....pretty good. he claims his car was like just right at the back of my rear bumper. i disagree, but i didn't argue with him. but come on, i have a 215 hp 229 torque c320 coupe compared with his 170 hp 164 (i believe) torque 323i. only advantage he has is manual to my auto, but even so, the MB auto is pretty aggressive, and his manual doesn't compensate for the fact that i just have more power. just look at the stats on paper!

he blamed his loss on his clutch because it's "slipping" (i can't tell that it is as i drove it) and he claims his 323i is faster than what bmw rates it at (the stats i gave above), and explains that bmw gives it such low specs because they have to exaggerate the "little" difference between the '00 323i and 328i.



he says that he is going to fix his clutch and have a rematch, where he will "own" me. LOL, i don't even know what to say to him. i just thought i'd share this story; i can't help but laugh at him.

Originally Posted by Improviz

BMW used the innacurate "323" designation to fool prospective 328 owners into thinking that their cars were 0.5L larger, which sounds "better" than the actual 0.3L it really was, and also underrated the horsepower of the 2.5L for that year. In 2001, they magically found 20 horsepower or so, even though the only thing that changed was the badge, and the fact that the 328 was replaced by the 330 (and picked up around 30 rated horsepower).

In tests, manual 325i and C320 test pretty much the same. Look 'em up...

Originally Posted by Tai230K

> means greater or equal to. If anything the c320 (auto) is either equal to or faster than the 323i (manny) and for that reason I used > (greater than or equal to sign).

This is such a trivial arguement, both are nice cars. Merc is a merc and bmw is a bmw. Although people are biased.

Originally Posted by S23O5C15

It requires a flywheel that can take it...the standard flywheel would not be compatible with the M5 clutch disc.

It's from the E34 M5, as well, not the E39. I've never heard of anybody using the E39 clutch disc on an E46.

Originally Posted by Improviz

In my experience, the C2 is slightly faster than the E46 M3 in a straight line given equal drivers, but only slightly.

Originally Posted by schwarzwagen

Ahh, I see. What exactly is the incentive for using an E34 clutch disc over say an aftermarket E46 clutch disc from TMS or Dinan, etc.? Also, do you plan on adding an S/C because there is no point in going nuts with this unless you plan on increasing power substantially. IMHO.

Originally Posted by S23O5C15

Interesting. I've seen M3's beat C2's (but again, only slightly )...but then, I forgot to take into consideration the driver.

Either way, the C2 is usually faster around the track and that's all there is to it.

Originally Posted by Improviz

...straight line, it depends upon what year of C2. The newer ones are a bit stronger than the first ones. M3 might well be able to take one of the other ones.

Originally Posted by S23O5C15

The C2's I saw lose to the M3 were 99's with the 3.4L motor. I should've clarified that from the start!

From what I understand, the later 3.6L version, as you say, is a bit quicker. The difference between the 99-00 C2's and the E46 M3 wasn't much at all, so I can imagine the later 3.6L models overtaking them.

Originally Posted by S23O5C15

I've considered a number of routes. It's still up in the air, but the E34 disc appeals for three reasons.

-Sprung hub design
-Basically the same price as an aftermarket E46 disc (I won't be going with the OEM kit again after the first one failed in under 40k miles, most of which was highway)
-Rated for power outputs of up to (I believe) 400 hp

Apparently, the sprung hub setup is supposed to reduce lightweight flywheel chatter, and when installed on an E46, eliminate the self-adjusting clutch (which is what fried my clutch in the first place). And, being that it's far beefier than the stock Sachs clutch that comes as standard equipment on my 323, I should be able to beat on it more at the track without causing any damage.

I would just go with an uprated aftermarket kit normally, but since I've decided to drop the money on a new flywheel, the sprung hub clutch makes sense.

And yes, a supercharger is on the drawing board.

Originally Posted by schwarzwagen

Interesting, well good luck. I prefer N/A power for the track. S/Cs and turbos get heat soaked and loose power on hot days.

Originally Posted by S23O5C15

I definitely prefer N/A power, but N/A tuning options (at a reasonable cost, that is) for the 2.5L engine are rather limited. Some tuners won't even do extensive N/A work on the 2.5L motors because the cost-power ratio is too poor. I may yet take that route, however. Turner Motorsport's E46 325 SWC race cars are making around 270 at the crank, all motor, and are very competitive, almost dominant in their class.