Build Quality
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2002
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Build Quality
Hi All,
I know I mentioned that I wanted to buy a 2002 ML500. But economics are always looming heavily on my mind. I wanted to, possibly, pick up a 2001 ML430. But, I've been hearing a lot about "build quality" being a concern. I can hardly believe this would be a problem for MB. But, since it is, does anyone know which model year where this became less of a concern? For that matter, is it still a concern?
Thanks.
I know I mentioned that I wanted to buy a 2002 ML500. But economics are always looming heavily on my mind. I wanted to, possibly, pick up a 2001 ML430. But, I've been hearing a lot about "build quality" being a concern. I can hardly believe this would be a problem for MB. But, since it is, does anyone know which model year where this became less of a concern? For that matter, is it still a concern?
Thanks.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,374
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From: NYC
2002 ML320
Yes after model year '00 the quality has increased in ML production. I would still say it is nowhere near the quality of the older Benzes and, to a lesser degree, the current higher-in-the-ladder models, but I guess that's how it is.
The '98 and '99 were plagued with quality problems, but many have been slowly fixed. The '01 is better than the previous years and the '02 is more trouble-free than any previous years.
Still, some people are unlucky and wind up with rattles in the dash, fender, etc., but I have not heard many people with '02's complain about this.
Mercedes' cost-cutting efforts with the early ML, which were required in order to create a midsize-luxury-SUV market, slowly showed themselves in the form of terrible quality control in the early model years and unfortunately, many many people (atleast 5 or 6 families I know personally + countless others) are going over to Lexus because of the superb quality (and in the US, also because most Lexus dealers are friendly and offer good service).
But I would say the '02 is your best bet in terms of the ML.
The '98 and '99 were plagued with quality problems, but many have been slowly fixed. The '01 is better than the previous years and the '02 is more trouble-free than any previous years.
Still, some people are unlucky and wind up with rattles in the dash, fender, etc., but I have not heard many people with '02's complain about this.
Mercedes' cost-cutting efforts with the early ML, which were required in order to create a midsize-luxury-SUV market, slowly showed themselves in the form of terrible quality control in the early model years and unfortunately, many many people (atleast 5 or 6 families I know personally + countless others) are going over to Lexus because of the superb quality (and in the US, also because most Lexus dealers are friendly and offer good service).
But I would say the '02 is your best bet in terms of the ML.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 43
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From: San Diego Ca
'00 ML430 & '02 Porsche 996
Even the latest ML's
have their issues - just a different type & number.
IMHO the ML is behind the pack in build quality - largely because of cost cutting and the dubious quality of many of the components. Sadly a large number of components are made in the US are are little better in quality to those installed on 'lesser brands'.
The end result is a truck which frequently doesn't live upto the brand reputation.
FYI
I have '00 ML430 with 34,000 miles and over 20 warranty claims, 13 of which for major electrical items.
Would I buy another ML (or MB product) ? I don't think so, been too badly burned by this ML and MBUSA's disregard for their customers :-(
IMHO the ML is behind the pack in build quality - largely because of cost cutting and the dubious quality of many of the components. Sadly a large number of components are made in the US are are little better in quality to those installed on 'lesser brands'.
The end result is a truck which frequently doesn't live upto the brand reputation.
FYI
I have '00 ML430 with 34,000 miles and over 20 warranty claims, 13 of which for major electrical items.
Would I buy another ML (or MB product) ? I don't think so, been too badly burned by this ML and MBUSA's disregard for their customers :-(
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2002
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This is truly unfortunate. Stories like this are giving me pause. The only other SUV I like is the X5 and that beasty is way over priced! Did your MB service department at least fix your problems or are they reoccurring issues?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 6
From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
My dealer is very good. Usually fixes stuff the first shot. They also make it so easy that in a way I do not care what happens as they pick up the car, leave an MB loaner (ML, E Class, or new C Class) repair the car and then return it to me and pick up their loaner. They also in fact fix stuff that they come upon that I was not even aware of. Have heard of some dealer complaints but its my thought that the complainers are those that did not allow the dealer to make a fair profit and now are demanding all the free service, loaners, etc. I personally do not blame dealers for not spending lots of their time and resources to knock themselves out for someone who does not want them to make a cent. These people obviously are not in business for themselves and are collecting a pay check or, really cannot afford to purchase or own what they bought.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 43
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From: San Diego Ca
'00 ML430 & '02 Porsche 996
My dealer
has tried very hard to keep my SUV fault free, but sometimes it has taken 4 or 5 attempts to fix a recurring problem eg the remote entry keys.
I've recently changed dealers to see if that helps - time will tell.
FYI I paid full sticker for my '00 in cash in the anticipation of trouble free motoring.... I was wrong, the problems started within a few weeks and I gave the dealer every opportunity to put thinks right - indeed I've tolerated this truck for nearly 3 years now and still it gives trouble sporadically. Granted I've not had a major failure / breakdown for nearly 6 months now :-)
As for the local area rep from MBUSA - he basically couldn't care less and says 'just keep taking it in for repair - that's what warranties are for'.
That is true, but at one time I was making monthly visits to have some fairly major fault taken care off and that's not counting the three times I had to call out roadside assistance when it broke down completely......
Others have been much more fortunate - but I don't think it's possible to guarantee you'll get a good one.
I'm not saying the X5 is perfect either (what SUV / car is ?), but when you're paying $50k+ you'd like to think that reliability would be better than a brand costing about 1/2 the price.
Given the choice, I'd go for the X5.
If you really want to be scared - check out www.mercedes-lemon.com
I've recently changed dealers to see if that helps - time will tell.
FYI I paid full sticker for my '00 in cash in the anticipation of trouble free motoring.... I was wrong, the problems started within a few weeks and I gave the dealer every opportunity to put thinks right - indeed I've tolerated this truck for nearly 3 years now and still it gives trouble sporadically. Granted I've not had a major failure / breakdown for nearly 6 months now :-)
As for the local area rep from MBUSA - he basically couldn't care less and says 'just keep taking it in for repair - that's what warranties are for'.
That is true, but at one time I was making monthly visits to have some fairly major fault taken care off and that's not counting the three times I had to call out roadside assistance when it broke down completely......
Others have been much more fortunate - but I don't think it's possible to guarantee you'll get a good one.
I'm not saying the X5 is perfect either (what SUV / car is ?), but when you're paying $50k+ you'd like to think that reliability would be better than a brand costing about 1/2 the price.
Given the choice, I'd go for the X5.
If you really want to be scared - check out www.mercedes-lemon.com
Last edited by timf; Jul 18, 2002 at 12:11 AM.
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Almost a Member!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 47
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From: TX
Our ML500 has been in the shop 7 times in 3 1/2 months ownership.
There were cosmetic issues:
-Glove box door was messed up when the car was delivered
Rattles:
-Center console (3 trips to get it fixed, the whole console was changed)
Squeaks and Cracks:
-Passenger seat, unbearable! The truck has been in the shop since Tuesday and will reamin there until next Monday night (dealer ordered the right part, but for the driver's seat instead of the passenger seat)
While this is really not enjoyable and even infuriating, when we do get to drive the car, it really makes up for these little things. It is mechanically solid and the perfs are OK.
Don't get a used 430, jump for the 500...
There were cosmetic issues:
-Glove box door was messed up when the car was delivered
Rattles:
-Center console (3 trips to get it fixed, the whole console was changed)
Squeaks and Cracks:
-Passenger seat, unbearable! The truck has been in the shop since Tuesday and will reamin there until next Monday night (dealer ordered the right part, but for the driver's seat instead of the passenger seat)
While this is really not enjoyable and even infuriating, when we do get to drive the car, it really makes up for these little things. It is mechanically solid and the perfs are OK.
Don't get a used 430, jump for the 500...
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: San Diego Ca
'00 ML430 & '02 Porsche 996
I agree...
if you are set on buying an ML, then buy an ML500 - you'll likely have fewer problems than with a 2000 ML430.
tcp_ML500 - sounds like you have a good ML there if your only problems are rattles etc :-))
On my ML I don't even count rattles & squeaks in my litany of mechanical / electrical problems :-(
tcp_ML500 - sounds like you have a good ML there if your only problems are rattles etc :-))
On my ML I don't even count rattles & squeaks in my litany of mechanical / electrical problems :-(
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18
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Oh my goodness!!! I just looked at http://www.mercedes-lemon.com/. What kinds of people do MB have as regional reps? This information is really giving me second thoughts.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore Area
2005 ML500 SE
MB Reps
It seems as if arrogance on the part of MB regional reps is the norm, rather than the exception. The worst part is that MBUSA stands by their regional reps., no matter how bad their decisions are.
Forewarned is forearmed
Forewarned is forearmed
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: San Diego Ca
'00 ML430 & '02 Porsche 996
That's exactly it....
MBUSA stands by their local reps no matter how dumb and un-founded their decisions.
For example I recently had to elevate a complaint to Ed Conner (local MBUSA rep for So Cal) - about the on going problems with my ML.
It was clear to me that he hadn't even pulled the service history - heck he didn't even know the model year of my ML, before saying tough - just keep on taking it back for repair....
He was about as useful as parking brake on a canoe ;-)
Like many others I will be voting with my wallet......
For example I recently had to elevate a complaint to Ed Conner (local MBUSA rep for So Cal) - about the on going problems with my ML.
It was clear to me that he hadn't even pulled the service history - heck he didn't even know the model year of my ML, before saying tough - just keep on taking it back for repair....
He was about as useful as parking brake on a canoe ;-)
Like many others I will be voting with my wallet......
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 864
Likes: 1
ML
Dealership Makes a Big Difference
'02ML320, 1500 miles. So far, the truck has been doing quite well. However, the gaskets used to seal both driving mirrors are leaking and I have started to notice an annoying low frequency buzz on the passenger side B pillar area. Or it may be the sunroof shade, I don't know. I lost a wheel weight also, hence vibration past 70mph. My dealership has been extremely cooperative and have promosed to take care of these items when I bring the truck in.
