I was thinking of buying a 99 ml320 or 430 but
everywhere I look I see nothing but complaints
about all the late model benz's and especially
the m-class. I thought by now, they would have
worked all the bugs out, but I still see millions
of complaints with the 2002 models.

Are you guys really happy with your m-class?
I hear the interior is awfully cheap plastic,
and mechanically unreliable.

Should I give up my dream of owning a well built MB?

 

Human nature.

People will spend time complaining about a problem, but will not take the time to praise XYZ when things work as expected.

Me? Guilty as charged.

I have a couple posts that describe my situation.
3 1/2 old ML 500, 7 trips to the dealership.
Annoyances (cosmetic issues on delivery and rattles), but mechanically, the car is great so far.

Like you, I read the posts, went to multiple forums, saw the negatives. I also drove the car, and drove the competition. The X5 has had 9 recalls so far, I find the japanese cars well executed but uninspired, did not even go there.

Really, the test drives did it for us.

Did quality go down at MB? YES!

My parents and I have been driven german cars for some 25 years, MB for them, VW for me. My parents never had to take their car to the dealership other than for oil changes and maintenance. They live in Europe and got a new E 3 weeks ago, it's been in the shop already (NAV was out, turned out to be a battery issue?!?). They love the car though...

You can get the latest TUV review and internal MB quality review on MB SPY and other sites. It even made the Wall Street Journal

Given all I know now, I would purchase that same ML 500 again.

Sorry that this is probably not much help.

Whatever you pick, BMW, MB, maybe a Cayenne(?), pick a good dealership, that'll make a difference in your ownership

 

I would definitely recommend getting as late model year as possible. Many minor problems were fixed slowly, and the '02 is pretty good. I've only seen a couple people complain about '02's - it's definitely a big improvement over the '98's and some '99 and '00's.

I have had no problems with my '02, but it's still almost new - my relative has an '01 that was here with me last year to install some accessories and things - it now has about 16,000 miles and not a single problem.

I would recommend to stay away from 98's and if possible, from '99's. More owners seem happy from the '00's and '01's, and the '02 is better in all regards.

The build quality is definitely not as good as the older MB's (like my old '91 300E) and the rest of the current MB lineup, which is built in Germany. Making cars in the US usually causes these problems, and when designing the ML, corner-cutting has shown its problems.

Hope it helps.

 

To Jimmy101
mbakshi's advice is worth listening to

To mbakshi
You are right about production site.
Design is much less of an issue. Case in point, some ML were produced in Austria (Graz plant). A friend of mine (Belgian) made sure he would get an Austrian built car and not an imported model. Apparently, some internal MB studies show the Austrian model has less issues that the American counterpart.

MB has decided that startingwith MY2003, all MLs would be produced in Alabama. Check MBUSI.com to see the expansion plan and work. ML production is set to double.

 

they have less US content and more Bosch or equivalent content.
Maybe that's a reason why non-US manufactured ML's have fewer problems.
But if they really are moving all ML production to the US, no doubt for efficiency reasons (read cost reduction) - then it's likely another step down the road of brand dilution for greater sales & profit.

Incidentally when my US manufactured alternator failed recently, I noticed the replacement unit was made in the UK !!!!!! Don't hold out much hope for this replacement ;-) and I'm from the UK originally !

Maybe I'm biased, but I'm convinced if the ML was made in Europe with genuine Bosch or equivalent electrical parts, then many if not most problems would go away....

 

timf

What are you doing this side of the pond? I am from the continent, from, you now, the hereditary enemy (Rouen, 1431).

Anyway, cost reduction, yes, you are right. The Austrian site is really intended for G production, and its successor, a revamped G for MY2004 or MY2005 depending on the sources.

Mercedes is the cash cow of the group. I suspect a that the Chrysler division is sucking a bunch of the profits. I never understood that take over, and it seems that instead of lifting Chrysler, Mercedes is being dragged down. :-(

I guess I was born to early to purchase a well built Merc.

 

I bought my '98 ML-320 on 1/01 with 42,000 miles. It now has 103,000 miles. Previous car was '87 300e. I average around 40,000 miles a year.

I don't think the build quality of the ML is as good as German models, but it's a different vehicle, with different capabilities and uses. For example, my E had less wind noise on the interstate, but it didn't have full-time 4WD and couldn't accomodate 8 suitcases and 4 bags of golf clubs, either! Remember, M=Multipurpose! (L=extra letter so the BMW lawyers don't get busy.)

The ML was a completely new vehicle from the ground up, and I suppose there are always "bugs" to work out in new models. I have visited their plant in AL several times, and can assure you that they are serious about producing the best vehicle possible. Of course, their engines are produced in Germany and shipped as a completed unit

Shortly after purchasing my ML, one of the Air Sensors failed and had to be replaced. The electrical locking mechanism for the Right Rear Door had to be replaced. Other than routine maintenance, that's it. My E, on the other hand, required maintenance constantly. Of course, I bought it used, and logged 250,000 miles on it in 6 years. It had 320,000 miles on it when I traded.

Last December, I drove (alone) from the East Coast (US) to Las Vegas (for a seminar, not gambling!) and back, a 5,600 mile trip. (OK, so I'm afraid to fly - so what?) I drove through every condition imaginable, from driving snow and icy roads to driving rain to thick fog to 100 degree heat. One leg of the trip was Nevada to Indiana non-stop - 36 hours straight. Another leg was Virginia Beach to Denver, CO, non-stop, with driving snow from St. Louis all the way to Denver. At times, I cruised at 80+mph for hours on end.

The ML never failed, performing perfectly for the entire trip. It was sure-footed and stable at all times, with plenty of HP, even for the mountains. And that's the 3.2l V6! Imagine a 5.0 or 5.5 V-8! (Or a RennTech 6.0l, as long as I'm dreaming!) The only maintenance required at the end was an oil change and replacing a fog light shattered by loose rocks on the highway through Arizona.

Find a dealer with a great service department that will stand behind their product, and buy a Mercedes. If you want a SUV, this is the one to have.

 

Man, I've flip-flopped more in the last few days than a politician in an election year. After reading all the various posts about bad ML quality, I flipped over to the X5. Then, reading about the recalls I checked at NHTSA. The 2001 models have 7 recalls!! There are none for 2002. Now, this post is more reassurring. I know all cars have issues. But, my main concern is, how would I be treated by MBUSA. If they don't give a rip about customers, I don't even want to be bothered with the hassle. I'm wondering if it's possible to get a German built ML. Is it possible?


tcp_ML500,

Could you post the URL's to TUV Report, MBSPY and the Wall Street Journal article(s).

Thanks

 

I did a similar flip-flop and then finally settled with the ML430. My decision was a bit easier because I wanted the 3rd row seats. You really should worry more about your local dealer than the MBUSA rep. if your local dealer is no good, then the experience will be very frustrating. For me, they've been great.

 

Here's the MBSPY article, which contains the NY Times article, Wall Street Journal article, and another one as well:

http://www.mbspy.com/mbquality.htm

Regarding recalls, the X5's recalls are much more serious - like spontaneous combustion - than the ML's. The X5 is also built in the US, so quality is also not up to par with the older German-built BMWs.

Carmakers produce cars here for cost savings, and that's one thing MB had to do. Making and selling a mid-size luxury SUV is now much easier for companies like Acura (MDX), BMW (X5), and Lexus (RX) because the market has been well-setup already. Mercedes had to funnel customers into a market no luxury brand had entered before and tried to cut costs to do that.

As shown by many foreign companies producing cars domestically (e.g. Honda, Toyota, etc.) car models that were well-known for good quality, reliablility, etc. when they were foreign-made are at first nowhere near that level and take time to do so. (e.g. Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, etc.)

The same is true here. While the ML is different now than what the earliest ('98) ones were like, at heart it is still a cost-cutting vehicle - so some underlying characteristics still show up.

Maybe they'll solve all the problems in the next-gen ('04) ML.

However, the late model ('02 or '01) is not a bad car - not many people have reported problems for this M.Y.

MBUSA treatment really depends on your dealer - some people actually have had good dealers.

 

Hey,

My mom used to own a 1998 ML320...the only mechanical problem I encounted was a broken fuel pump, but that was a known notorious problem with early MLs. At least it didn't leave me stranded, and I was able to bring it to the dealer. I agree that you should find a dealer with a good service department, because mine (Mercedes-Benz of Nanuet) was very accomodating with replacing the pump.

Other than that, just little minor annoyances like rattles and a broken power window switch, which the dealer took care of. Yeah, the materials used in the interior were disappointing for a Mercedes, but the fit-and-finish was good.

"People will spend time complaining about a problem, but will not take the time to praise XYZ when things work as expected." So true...

I miss our ML, despite its faults. It treated us well, carted all my crap to and from school, and was great in bad weather. It was unstoppable in Ithaca winters...even without ESP. And it drove like a Benz should.

Todd

P.S. I think all RHD models were made in Graz, Austria. The Graz plant also made Euro-spec Grand Cherokees and PT Cruisers.

 

Alot of good points made here that are worth listening to, especially the one about remembering everything we like about our ML's as well as it's faults.

It seems pretty conclusive that the model went through growing pains, so regardless of the "good" 98's and 99's, I would stick with a newer one. Only budget should make you look at the older models, but they still will be a far better choice than other comparably priced pre-owned trucks/SUV's on the market.

The ML is a great, perhaps the best, combination of on-road/off-road capabilities. Any other SUV which excels on one surface compromises on the other...my only concern is whether I'll still be owning this Merc after 6-7 years like I do with all my others!

 

Agreed...even though our 1998 ML320 was fine, I would stick to 2000+ MLs.

Todd

 

got 64K on my 99 ML430, so far so good, only real complaints are
wind noise (especially with the skyview), gas mileage. And it is true that the build quality is not as good as German built benz's, my 94 c280 is solid as a rock, whereas my ML has a few squeaks and rattles.

 

I have a 2001 ML320 and it has giving me almost problem free ride for the past 9 months. The only problems were faulty window switch( very common) and overcharged condensor, and my dealer tech resolved them promptly. It is not built like my other German-Made Benzes and I never expect it to. Overall it is a very competent truck for the price. Like someone stated, we focus too much on the negatives and not remembering the positives. I am on my 6th. Mercedes Benz and honestly I can't fault Mercedes for anything!!! My cars/ truck never give me any problems and my dealer literally kiss the ground I walk on.

I originally was planning to buy Ford Escape as a winter car but let me tell you, I got jerked around and treated like **** by the domestic dealers for a mere $25000 garbage. Buy a Benz from a competent dealer will give you the ultimate Mercedes Benz experience. If you live in western NY, Mercedes Benz of Buffalo is the one to go to.

John

 

Man, I love your choice of colors - imperial red/ash??? What is that??? Anyway, I totally agree with your last statement about buying from a good dealer - it makes all the difference in the world of Mb ownership. However, I fault MB in some respect because I don't believe they've adequately addressed owner problems. MB is a company rooted in tradition so they don't take change very easily. Otherwise, why would they keep on putting the door controls in the center console when everyone knows that that's outright dumb!!! And I don't believe MB has adequately stressed the importance of user input to its reps. Traditionally, MB buyers have been old rich men who knew nothing about cars so couldn't complain about anything - and I'm still amazed at what these old rich %^&$#@( will put up with. Now comes the Chevy class buyers in the MB ranks. we can do it ourselves and KNOW when things are done poorly. MB has yet to learn to deal with us - that explains why it's taken MB almost 5yrs to get the ML right, and they still don't rank anywhere near a Lexus in quality. Other than that, they're really the best deal for the money, especially the ML500. There's nowhere to date where you'll find an equivalent truck for the money, no where, period!!!

 

If you are in California, I may be selling my 2000 ML430... (Sell or TOP) All updates have been made to rectify problems associated with past models.

 

Hello Darkmann,

Don't let my wife hear you make fun of her CLK color! She will hurt ya!!! She refuse to drive anything but red. It is imperial red exterior with oyster/ash leather interior and I avoid driving her car when possible. I will stay with black and silver. She wants a CLK55 in "RED" in a couple of years and I am reluctant to oblige her. Time to seek marriage counselling.

John

 

Mine fukken sucks....

had quite a few problems such as:
window jamming, relay system failing, cd player failing, pulley system problems, problems with the air box, D pillars cracking...

 

What year and model is your ML?

 

As the owner of a mid -'98 ML320 I can tell you a love hate tale. nearing 100k and 4 years.
Since i wasn't part of the first 14,000 or so I got the first round of fixes.
But
1.) transfer case hi-lo change motor, stuck in limp home mode. flaky for a while then failed ( warranty)
2.) leaky sunroof, 3 visits couldn't replicate leak with hose. Then happened to have oil changed on a day with a downpour while still at the dealer. carpet soaked. "your right it does leak" . crack next to drain hose. (warranty)
3.) window switch ( warranty)
4.) back center bearing in drive shaft (warranty)

5.) front sway bar bushing ( warranty)

6.) torsion bars and bearings ( my nickel)

7.) brakes rotors and pads twice. ( my nickel but certainly expected.

8.) replaced original grabbers tires with same at around 45k. after 15k got a cut down on which required replacement of tire. after another 10k the size mismatch between tires created bizarre wear pattern. replaced all 4 with michelins .

9.) new wiindow switch again ( my nickel)

10.) 96k for driveshaft again. ( probably my nickel )

and of course there were the other more minor crap like broken cupholders etc.


all said, I enjoy the truck. Would i buy it again? i struggle with that choice but look back at the reliability and wonder what the next 4 years will bring as the vehicle gets the next 100k.
5 former co-workers on mercedes products on my recommendation but I am not sure I coud give an unconditional recommendation anymore. In any case the extended warranty is probably a good investment. I wish I had made it.

 

If that was all that had gone wrong with my ML430 I'd be ecstatic !
Like you, I've a love / hate relationship with my ML which has been made worse by the dealers ability (lack of) and the 'snobby' / couldn't care less attitude of MB USA.
I've learnt an expensive lesson after 23 + warranty claims and numerous major roadside failures - don't buy MB products EVER. They're not what they used to be. Too much cost cutting and domestic US content.
Sad thing is the ML is a great design - just poorly implemented.
I'm far from alone in my opinion - check out http://www.mercedes-lemon.com/

 

Jimmy:

I have 86,600 miles on my '98 ML320 and it has been mostly reliable. And despite what some others have said on this forum, my dealer experience with Atlanta Classic Cars has been good too. I would definitely buy one, and from them, again.

No the car's not perfect, but then again, I didn't expect it to be for its price. It was still a good buy though.

As for comparisons to the old days, my dad owned around 25 different MBs in his lifetime dating back to 1963, and they weren't as reliable then as everyone now says they were either. The stereotypical German craftsmen working at the factory in Germany were replaced by cheap imported labor back in the '70s. I read the same rants about reduced quality at MB in the car magazines of the late '70s and early '80s. They were still great cars back then, but not all that perfect. I know, I helped my dad fix many of them.

As to what year model ML to buy, in 2001 they made some upgrades you might want: separate rear climate control and vents (a big deal in southern climates), additional larger front cupholder, rear cargo area windows pop out a la minivans for additional venting. My kids really wish we had better A/C for the rear passengers.

I'm not sure I'd consider an X5 given the even more serious problems it's had. Seems like it costs more too. The Japanese competitors may be a little more reliable, but they don't seem to have any soul, and don't seem to be as solid and safe as the ML. If you want an SUV that will protect you and yours every day, I'd still buy an ML. That's what made the decision for me.

 

Well it sound like the ML is not a lemon after all, IMO, any SUV that you get is going to have some weak points, rattles can ususally be easily fixed. If you like the looks of a late model ML go for it!