Hybrids and Ethanol Conversion! Are we insane?
05-11-2006, 01:12 PM
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Hybrids and Ethanol Conversion! Are we insane?
I was replying to a post about E85 earlier when these thoughts came to me.
I am not starting a flame war here, but just trying to see what my fellows M-Klasssers think.
Existing E85 prices versus its yield (less Miles per gallon compared to gasoline) make it a "not worth the effort" deal. what is $2.36 vs $2.89 if you are getting 10MPG vs 14MPG?
In my humble and personal opinion, Ethanol may have environmental benefits (Not a lot as some may think becuse you HAVE to use fossil fuels to produce Ethanol) but not really economical benefits.
Also in my personal opinion (I keep repeating personal opinion - because someone WILL flame me for these comments
for the time being, it may produce competition which is good as competition almost guarentees lowered prices for the consumer.
While I am on this topic, another think that bothers me is the hype about Hybrids. HELLO! Honda accord hybrid cost a Good 34K while regular LX accord is maybe 20K (14,000 dollar difference). Now, if the difference in MPG is 25 vs 35 (saving of 10MPG) and if the driver drives 12K a year, they will put in 480 gallons in LX vs. 342 in hybrid. That is 137 Gallons difference a year. Even at $3.00, that is just $411. So you wil have to keep the hybrid for 34 years just to justify the fuel cost difference! WOW!
I think future promises are hydrogen fuel cell, compressed-air vehicles, electric cars and so on. I am hopeful someone will economically make converters or retrofit kits that will generate Hydrogen from water on the fly and use that as a fuel (self service fuel - no pumping stations involved). Fun would be to see these kits seamlessly installed in our existing engines.
I am not starting a flame war here, but just trying to see what my fellows M-Klasssers think.
Existing E85 prices versus its yield (less Miles per gallon compared to gasoline) make it a "not worth the effort" deal. what is $2.36 vs $2.89 if you are getting 10MPG vs 14MPG?
In my humble and personal opinion, Ethanol may have environmental benefits (Not a lot as some may think becuse you HAVE to use fossil fuels to produce Ethanol) but not really economical benefits.
Also in my personal opinion (I keep repeating personal opinion - because someone WILL flame me for these comments
for the time being, it may produce competition which is good as competition almost guarentees lowered prices for the consumer.While I am on this topic, another think that bothers me is the hype about Hybrids. HELLO! Honda accord hybrid cost a Good 34K while regular LX accord is maybe 20K (14,000 dollar difference). Now, if the difference in MPG is 25 vs 35 (saving of 10MPG) and if the driver drives 12K a year, they will put in 480 gallons in LX vs. 342 in hybrid. That is 137 Gallons difference a year. Even at $3.00, that is just $411. So you wil have to keep the hybrid for 34 years just to justify the fuel cost difference! WOW!
I think future promises are hydrogen fuel cell, compressed-air vehicles, electric cars and so on. I am hopeful someone will economically make converters or retrofit kits that will generate Hydrogen from water on the fly and use that as a fuel (self service fuel - no pumping stations involved). Fun would be to see these kits seamlessly installed in our existing engines.
05-11-2006, 04:37 PM
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You also have to add in the cost of refining fuel X.
AFAIK, everything else costs more to produce to get a final product w/ energy level E compared to oil based technology (although oil producers have refined their techniques for a while). The differences were huge (doubtful they'd be able to be lowered down to oil producing costs) the last time I looked...
AFAIK, everything else costs more to produce to get a final product w/ energy level E compared to oil based technology (although oil producers have refined their techniques for a while). The differences were huge (doubtful they'd be able to be lowered down to oil producing costs) the last time I looked...
05-13-2006, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mobinakhtar
I think future promises are hydrogen fuel cell, compressed-air vehicles, electric cars and so on. I am hopeful someone will economically make converters or retrofit kits that will generate Hydrogen from water on the fly and use that as a fuel (self service fuel - no pumping stations involved). Fun would be to see these kits seamlessly installed in our existing engines.
BLUETECH!
05-13-2006, 09:17 PM
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Two other things to remember:
1)The mileage benefit with the hybrids is mostly city driving, for someone like me whose mileage is probably 75% highway, it definitely makes no sense to pay the cost difference.
2)If you go the Ethanol route, be prepared to sacrifice 15% to 20% in fuel mileage and pay 10% more for your fuel.
On both counts, I say no thanks. But, I'm open to new technology so bring it on! Can't wait to see the next new idea.
1)The mileage benefit with the hybrids is mostly city driving, for someone like me whose mileage is probably 75% highway, it definitely makes no sense to pay the cost difference.
2)If you go the Ethanol route, be prepared to sacrifice 15% to 20% in fuel mileage and pay 10% more for your fuel.
On both counts, I say no thanks. But, I'm open to new technology so bring it on! Can't wait to see the next new idea.
