MBTECH... help!
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Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Sf Bay Area
2000 ML430, 2008 GL550, 2008 F250 Superduty, 2007 VW Jetta
MBTECH... help!
i ran this across you once before regarding the "roof rack pop" i dont recall you ever posting the solution besides removing them completely. ive had my ml in service for a week now and they cant seem to pin point it. they replaced the rear shocks cause they swore up and down that it was that but no cigar. i told them about my post on mbworld and they asked me to find out what the remedy is. i dont want them to keep changing things that dont need to be changed and most of all, i miss my ml...
help!
help!
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bloomington, IN
1997 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
Are you serious? They want you to go home and look on the computer for the solution to the problem they are supposed to figure out? They've had your ML for a week and all they've replaced are the rear shocks? No way, man. I had to find that noise all by myself, and so are these guys. I took that ML down into pieces looking for the noise, so no freebies on this one. Sorry.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Sf Bay Area
2000 ML430, 2008 GL550, 2008 F250 Superduty, 2007 VW Jetta
???
dude... are you serious? i understand that they, as an mb service provider, should have the know how to fix these problems, but... come on, man. you're an mbtech and regardless of them being at another dealership you guys are all working under one big umbrella. to deliberately withhold information is not only malicious but just aint cool. especially cause mbworld and other forums are here to help fellow mb owners and not to play these kind of childish games. if you really feel that your discovery should benefit you and only you then i suggest you change your name cause it's misleading to call yourself 'mbtech' and not help out.
my 2 cents.
my 2 cents.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bloomington, IN
1997 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
As much free information as I give, I'm entitled to withhold information at my discretion. I'm not going to give somebody a freebie after I have spent days looking for the problem myself. Especially when the technicians have the tools and know-how to diagnose problems. If it were a customer fixing the car himself, I'd have no problem pointing him in the right direction, but I'm not going to have some Joe Technician make money off of me.
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From: GMT -8 hours
Mercedes-Benz
I understand that you want to retain this info because of all the time it took you to find out what was the cause of the problem, but isnt there a service bulletin on it? This leads me to another question, isnt it beneficial to say what the problem is because it will lead to a service bulletin on the ML, or is this not how service bulletins come about? If I had figured out something difficult like how to cure cancer, I wouldnt tell the procedure, but come on it's fixing a car. Like you said you have the right not to tell, but I don't see how you are benefitting from not telling this guy whats wrong with his ML. Well I'm not here to start a fight so I better stop while I'm ahead 
.
.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bloomington, IN
1997 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
My rationale is that I earn my paycheck by diagnosing a problem. I find out the cause of the problem, and fix it. Al, I am not benefitting by withholding my information, but the technicians working on his car sure are. If somebody told me what was wrong with every car and all I had to do was replace the part, I wouldn't be learning. I want these guys to learn. They may have to strip your ML430 down to the structure like I had to, but I guarantee next time they hear a noise like yours, they'll know exactly what the problem is. Why am I the bad guy all of a sudden because I don't let people make money off me?
Also, there are at least 3 different sources available in the dealership with lists of known problems and solutions for some complaints. WIS, NetStar, and the factory rep.
Also, there are at least 3 different sources available in the dealership with lists of known problems and solutions for some complaints. WIS, NetStar, and the factory rep.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: GMT -8 hours
Mercedes-Benz
you are not the bad guy at all, I actually really appreciate you helping us out with our minor problems. However, wont the technition make more money because he has to take more time to diagnose the problem or it doesnt work that way. And yes I agree with you, it is lame that the dealer wants HIM to find out what the problem is.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bloomington, IN
1997 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
No, it doesn't work like that. The time that warranty pays for locating a noise is whats called "non-time". This means that however long it takes you to find the noise, they'll pay you. There is no set time for it. Meaning that however long it takes the technician to find the noise, that's how much he is going to get paid for it. He's not loosing money, he's not making money. He's just breaking even.
Thread Starter
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From: Sf Bay Area
2000 ML430, 2008 GL550, 2008 F250 Superduty, 2007 VW Jetta
what ever mbtech...
im not trying to start a pissing match with you. i just thought this forum was to help fellow mb'ers out with things like this. ESPECIALLY, since your name is 'mbtech' and moderator, one would think that you are implying that you are here for a purpose. im not looking for freebies nor am i looking for handouts. i'll just take it to my dealer and have them figure it out. like i said before, change the name cause it's lame to mislead people into thinking your are here to actually help.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Berkshire, UK
2004 SL55, 2015 A250d, 2016 GLC250d
Mbtech, whats Netstar ?? I dont think the UK dealers have that ...
Cheers,
Richard
ps, as Randy B says in the next post [ok, so I edited this] pls dont change or go away, you do a great and valuable job and almost all of us appreciate it !
Cheers,
Richard
ps, as Randy B says in the next post [ok, so I edited this] pls dont change or go away, you do a great and valuable job and almost all of us appreciate it !
Last edited by Richard; Dec 29, 2001 at 03:48 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 536
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From: Orlando, Florida
**SOLD***2003 E500
MBTech Don't Change or go away please!
What a crock!!!! If you were out of warranty and fixing this yourself, I am very confident this information would be shared. Reality is you are not. You are just Pissed Off, you will be without your ML for a period of time. Too bad, these things happen. The last thing a Mercedes dealer should be relying on to fix a problem for a warranty car is the owner of the car chatting in a forum for possibilities. Blastphemy!!! There are tons of information resources available to all the service shops within MBUSA, it all depends on how much time they want to take and spend on your vehicle at that particular dealership. To blast MBTech, is out of line and wrong! Go chew on a Service Manager for a while and see how fast resource phone lines get burned up, and all of a sudden a Bulletin is found. Remember this guy is here helping us on his time. You have to respect that no matter what. He has no obligation.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 618
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From: Kansas City
2010 E550
MBtech-Randy,
I'm with Randy on this one. I can tell that mbtech spends a lot of time and energy answering questions for people who will use the information themselves and to help them with doing stuff on their own cars. To ask him to help another dealer figure out what MB is going to have to pay for under warrenty is not a good use of his time on this forum!
Keep up the good work MBtech-you have been helpng a lot of people-me included. (Although I'll get blasted for this I have often thought that MBtech could open his own little web site and charge for his advice--It would certainly be worth it to me to be able to have one-to-one discussions with someone who knows what they are talking about rather than setting up an appointment and detailing your problem to the "service represetative" so he could go to the shop and ask a tech what the deal is only to come back and give you a real short answer with a big price tag on the fix.)
Oh, Mbtech, should you ever need to run a legal question by someone who is in the biz--don't hesitate. I'd be glad to reciprocate for all the help you've been.
I'm with Randy on this one. I can tell that mbtech spends a lot of time and energy answering questions for people who will use the information themselves and to help them with doing stuff on their own cars. To ask him to help another dealer figure out what MB is going to have to pay for under warrenty is not a good use of his time on this forum!
Keep up the good work MBtech-you have been helpng a lot of people-me included. (Although I'll get blasted for this I have often thought that MBtech could open his own little web site and charge for his advice--It would certainly be worth it to me to be able to have one-to-one discussions with someone who knows what they are talking about rather than setting up an appointment and detailing your problem to the "service represetative" so he could go to the shop and ask a tech what the deal is only to come back and give you a real short answer with a big price tag on the fix.)
Oh, Mbtech, should you ever need to run a legal question by someone who is in the biz--don't hesitate. I'd be glad to reciprocate for all the help you've been.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Sf Bay Area
2000 ML430, 2008 GL550, 2008 F250 Superduty, 2007 VW Jetta
like i said...
i agree with all of you including mbtech but, in this instance, he would be helping a fellow mb'er as well as the tech. i dont understand the difficulty he has with sharing information. i think it's childish and i guess i wouldnt think of it his way personally. besides if he's proud enough to display 'mbtech' as his user name in an mb forum, one would think that he'd be more than willing to share his knowledge.
randy b, relax. im sure if it were you with a problem (small but none the less should not be discounted) it would be your best interest to try and get it resolved. pissed off? who's pissed off? it's funny that you might think that way but i do have a life and i dont let things like this dont run it.
bottom line, i'd just like my ml fixed and i thought if someone somewhere in mb forum land can help they would...
randy b, relax. im sure if it were you with a problem (small but none the less should not be discounted) it would be your best interest to try and get it resolved. pissed off? who's pissed off? it's funny that you might think that way but i do have a life and i dont let things like this dont run it.
bottom line, i'd just like my ml fixed and i thought if someone somewhere in mb forum land can help they would...
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
To MB Tech
I am in complete agreement with you. Your responsibility is to the dealer that pays you and to that dealer's customers. I am willing to bet that the majority of the people on this and other boards that complain about dealer service are those that did not permit the dealer to make a reasonable profit on the sale of the vehicle and they are the ones that most likely ***** about every maint invoice and poor service. Who do they think pays for the loaners, shop expense, overhead,test equipment, etc. Perhaps they took advantge of a dealer's situation with heavy inventory at the time of purchase. They think that a dealership can survive on the 3% holdback and be profitable. Can't happen!!! I paid list for my 98 and received a 1000 off of list and a few other incentives on my 500ML. My dealer has knocked himself out to take care of me and that is really what I paid for. Same goes for my 01 E320. Perhaps these people should be driving Fords or Chevy's and they would accept mediocre service. My dealer picks up my vehicles, leaves a loaner, delivers the vehicle and takes back his loaner. Who do these people think picks up that tab?? Keep up your good comments. You have personally helped many of us over and above the call of duty at your own expense (time). Thanks for your continued participation.
Thread Starter
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From: Sf Bay Area
2000 ML430, 2008 GL550, 2008 F250 Superduty, 2007 VW Jetta
get off your high horse sosh...
"Perhaps these people should be driving Fords or Chevy's and they would accept mediocre service"
it's people like you that try and divide people and contribute to 'snobbiness'
i paid just as much for my vehicle as most did. i ordered it and waited. so dont assume i too advantage of dealer overflow.
listing your vehicles tells me you either have small man syndrome or just plain have a little ****.
i've had it with this forum.
it's people like you that try and divide people and contribute to 'snobbiness'
i paid just as much for my vehicle as most did. i ordered it and waited. so dont assume i too advantage of dealer overflow.
listing your vehicles tells me you either have small man syndrome or just plain have a little ****.
i've had it with this forum.
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Posts: n/a
I've had it with this forum as well.
Considering the fact that the Internet is built on the premise of the sharing of information, I think it's ridiculous that someone would say 'let them figure it out - I'm not saying'.
If that's the attitude you're comfortable with - I say disconnect your computer. You shouldn't benefit from the Internet one bit, if you're not going to give back.
Considering the fact that the Internet is built on the premise of the sharing of information, I think it's ridiculous that someone would say 'let them figure it out - I'm not saying'.
If that's the attitude you're comfortable with - I say disconnect your computer. You shouldn't benefit from the Internet one bit, if you're not going to give back.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 669
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From: North Bay Area, California
2001 E320
To MB (if it benefits ME) Tech
I have to say that in no way do I agree with MB (if it benefits ME) Tech; I too feel that these forums are informational and are there to help any one better enjoy the experience of owing a Mercedes-Benz. I bet any one with a Lexus or BMW has really enjoyed the attitude you have displayed in this thread.
While I can appreciate that it took you a great deal of effort to resolve this problem, most people are not in a position to go to your specific repair facility and thus, I don’t understand your logic. Good thing for YOU that all your elementary, high school, college and even M-B training instructors didn’t feel the same as you about ‘sharing information’…
It's great to think that I have invested $51k in a M-B product, could have a problem, but my vehicle gets tied up in service for days or weeks because of some short-sighted M-B tech. Small world thinking, that’s for sure. I only hope that M-B USA follows these forums… oops; hope I didn't give anyone any ideas...
Patiently awaiting your flame…
While I can appreciate that it took you a great deal of effort to resolve this problem, most people are not in a position to go to your specific repair facility and thus, I don’t understand your logic. Good thing for YOU that all your elementary, high school, college and even M-B training instructors didn’t feel the same as you about ‘sharing information’…
It's great to think that I have invested $51k in a M-B product, could have a problem, but my vehicle gets tied up in service for days or weeks because of some short-sighted M-B tech. Small world thinking, that’s for sure. I only hope that M-B USA follows these forums… oops; hope I didn't give anyone any ideas...
Patiently awaiting your flame…
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Berkshire, UK
2004 SL55, 2015 A250d, 2016 GLC250d
If MB USA read this forum, they probably prevent MBtech from giving us all the information and help that he does - I'd imagine some of it is covered under some NDA/Contract between MBtech and his employer and his employer and MBUSA.
Certainly, here in the UK, the dealers are close enough together that I have the choice of 3 or 4 within 30 mins drive, and more slightly further who do collect and deliver ..
The dealers service departments are in competition with each other [as they are different dealerships], and I always take my car to one particular dealer because they always "fix first time" - if their technicians were sharing all their information with all the other dealers then the dealer I use would be losing out ..
Sadly MB UK have just re-arranged all their franchises and my favorite dealer was sold and is moving to another site - in the botched process a lot of the techies moved to other dealers since they were desperate to get those rather clever staff !!
If I remember correctly. the Internet was built on distributing military information between military establishments ...]
[Im Richard - NOT Richard / E320]
Certainly, here in the UK, the dealers are close enough together that I have the choice of 3 or 4 within 30 mins drive, and more slightly further who do collect and deliver ..
The dealers service departments are in competition with each other [as they are different dealerships], and I always take my car to one particular dealer because they always "fix first time" - if their technicians were sharing all their information with all the other dealers then the dealer I use would be losing out ..
Sadly MB UK have just re-arranged all their franchises and my favorite dealer was sold and is moving to another site - in the botched process a lot of the techies moved to other dealers since they were desperate to get those rather clever staff !!
If I remember correctly. the Internet was built on distributing military information between military establishments ...]
[Im Richard - NOT Richard / E320]
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Richard-
I don't see what you're getting at - a mechanic with a non-disclosure agreement? Right...
And just for historical sakes - the Internet's backbone is based off of Arpanet, originally a DoD project to link together military sites. Considering the government considers it a commerce backbone now, I think your other point was moot as well.
Just another case of someone not sharing information - plain and simple. He didn't invent the lightbulb - he found a solution, that he's not willing to share. That's fine - but don't try to label it otherwise.
I don't see what you're getting at - a mechanic with a non-disclosure agreement? Right...
And just for historical sakes - the Internet's backbone is based off of Arpanet, originally a DoD project to link together military sites. Considering the government considers it a commerce backbone now, I think your other point was moot as well.
Just another case of someone not sharing information - plain and simple. He didn't invent the lightbulb - he found a solution, that he's not willing to share. That's fine - but don't try to label it otherwise.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Berkshire, UK
2004 SL55, 2015 A250d, 2016 GLC250d
John, almost all employment contracts that Ive seen [and they are NOT mechanics ones] require that the employees keep confidential matters relating to the business of their employers, and also that all intellectual property/inventions etc are owned by the employer.
There are a bunch of contracts between MB dealers and MB (UK in this case) that prevent the dealer from disclosing confidential information .. and this applies to the dealers staff aswell - i'd have expected that "application" to be contractual and in the employment contracts
Yup, you concur with my comment about where the internet came from, but you are also correct that my point was moot !
- In the stages between being military and becoming commercial [where information is paid for] it has grown massively because of the willingness for people to share information. Much like the "open source movement" and Linux etc
I can see both sides of the argument, Im just sad that Mbtech seems to be getting 'criticized' for not wanting to share the complete contents of his brain, when he has been a valuable resource to many.
There are a bunch of contracts between MB dealers and MB (UK in this case) that prevent the dealer from disclosing confidential information .. and this applies to the dealers staff aswell - i'd have expected that "application" to be contractual and in the employment contracts
Yup, you concur with my comment about where the internet came from, but you are also correct that my point was moot !
- In the stages between being military and becoming commercial [where information is paid for] it has grown massively because of the willingness for people to share information. Much like the "open source movement" and Linux etc
I can see both sides of the argument, Im just sad that Mbtech seems to be getting 'criticized' for not wanting to share the complete contents of his brain, when he has been a valuable resource to many.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 275
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From: Lower Mainland, British Columbia, Canada
'00 ML320 Elegance/'03 C320 4-matic
Hello Richard,
I see what you're getting at, but for what it is worth, I don't think that there is any problems between MB technicians sharing information outside of their workplace. For example, there are a couple of MB technicians who frequent the M-class mailing list, and MBUSA is aware of this (specifically, even the president of MBUSA is aware of this) and there have been no issues.
Happy New Year!
Drew_ML
I see what you're getting at, but for what it is worth, I don't think that there is any problems between MB technicians sharing information outside of their workplace. For example, there are a couple of MB technicians who frequent the M-class mailing list, and MBUSA is aware of this (specifically, even the president of MBUSA is aware of this) and there have been no issues.
Happy New Year!
Drew_ML
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Richard-
You might be speaking on behalf of the UK - the US works different in the NDA respect. While putting myself through school for engineering, I worked as a mechanic, for a large, ASE certified shop. I didn't have to sign a NDA, and neither did any of my co-workers. In fact - even as an engineer, the companies that I worked for used to largely support the work I did on the Internet, supporting users in newsgroups who had purchased our products. It was my spare time, and I didn't get paid for it - but I was helping people out. I don't feel slighted, because for all the work I've put out for free, I've benefitted from other's hard work in return.
There's a huge difference between divulging proprietary information (which is what NDAs are usually written for) and helping someone out with a rattle. I don't see this as asking someone to do a complete 'brain dump', and I do see it as contradictory to what the Internet stands for.
You might be speaking on behalf of the UK - the US works different in the NDA respect. While putting myself through school for engineering, I worked as a mechanic, for a large, ASE certified shop. I didn't have to sign a NDA, and neither did any of my co-workers. In fact - even as an engineer, the companies that I worked for used to largely support the work I did on the Internet, supporting users in newsgroups who had purchased our products. It was my spare time, and I didn't get paid for it - but I was helping people out. I don't feel slighted, because for all the work I've put out for free, I've benefitted from other's hard work in return.
There's a huge difference between divulging proprietary information (which is what NDAs are usually written for) and helping someone out with a rattle. I don't see this as asking someone to do a complete 'brain dump', and I do see it as contradictory to what the Internet stands for.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 20
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From: Chicago Suburbs
if 2g430 will post solution anyway, why not tell him?
mbtech-
helping one more out before his post couldn't hurt.
sometimes telling a solution to a problem <i> <b> IS </i> </b> as good as figuring it out yourself.
there are plenty of real world examples for this.
Take driving with ABS. A driver would need to experiment driving with ABS (take an old driver new to ABS), and risk crashing.
SImply telling him to keep his foot planted for min stopping distance is a simple, direct concept that he'll take to heart - lesson learned.
keep up the good advice.
helping one more out before his post couldn't hurt.
sometimes telling a solution to a problem <i> <b> IS </i> </b> as good as figuring it out yourself.
there are plenty of real world examples for this.
Take driving with ABS. A driver would need to experiment driving with ABS (take an old driver new to ABS), and risk crashing.
SImply telling him to keep his foot planted for min stopping distance is a simple, direct concept that he'll take to heart - lesson learned.
keep up the good advice.
