kbarrett123

I have a 2001 ML 320 and the thing has been to the shop more times than any other vehicle I have owned! This is ridiculous. I could have spent less money to be equally bothered!!
I have the lighted running boards (1800.00 dollar option) and the things have burned out three times from water intrusion!! The dealer just keeps repairing them and telling me that MB is working on re-engineering the things. The end caps had to be replaced where the dealer had removed them so many times that the clips were broken!! Dont buy these things!!
Other assorted nuances were: The GPS antenna shorted out and had to be replaced. The driver window failed down in a rainstorm in Newport R.I. The MB roadside tech said that it was a common problem in the ML's and that the switchblocks have a faulty contact block that is replaced with a new design when they fail.
A/C compressor seized and smoked the accessory belt. And a host of other electrical problems. I am voting with my wallet. I also own a Lexus GS 430 (my fourth) and those cars easily go to 100k on one set of brakes and tires. I cant wait for the GX 470!

amb9800

Wow - sorry to hear about your problems. Most '01's and newer never had these kinds of problems. Just for informaiton purposes, when was yours produced? Only the window problem could be considered 'common' - the rest of your problems are not - kinda weird.

Most ML's that have those kinds of problems are '98's and '99's, not '01s. All of this is the result of MB's cost-cutting while designing the ML for production. They had the task of creating a market for this type of SUV.

So MB had to make it as cheap as possible so that it would be successful. The competitors' task was very much easier than MB's - they followed into the market that MB basically created, and when MB did so, the ML's quality control suffered.

The quality of the ML is not really typical of MB, especially of the older ones. The ML, being made in the US, has a quality level much lower than the other MBs, and is a totally different level than the older MB's. The ML has a solid feel but it's a trucky feel, while the older MB's had a solid feel like a tank - I guess that's what comes with newer technology and style.

A lot of these trends apply to other makes also (e.g. BMW), where the quality and general "solidity" of the car is lessened as new stuff comes.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose to do, you happened to be unlucky with your ML - most of your problems were not typical of the '01.

Darkmann

Not quite accurate. The moisture problem is quite common on even MY02 ML's. My '02 leaked moisture into the integrated turn signals and the rear tail lamps. Both mirrors and tail lamps were replaced but just yesterday when I drove her in the rain, the tail lamps still leak!!!I have been to dealer lots and noticed the turn signal moisture problem in several MY02 MLs.

Enough with the excuses for MB. DC has had over 4yrs to get the ML to a class leading truck. Despite the fact that these trucks are the best buys around, MB has failed misserably in engineering out problems. I can't excuse them for that and don't understand why the haven't overcome this "quality" problems. Afterall, Hondas are made in the USA also - easy for me to criticize, of course!!!

No, just poor design philosophy as far as the ML is concerned. Too many "little things" that were either overdesigned or not adequately designed for the manufacturing capabilities of the MBUSA plant.

amb9800

Hondas are in a completely different situation - the ML was designed for the first time for production in the US - it wasn't something that was just later on moved into the US. The reason why the ML still has many problems is that even though they have upgraded many things and added many bits of technology and fixes, the heart of the car is still a cost-cutting vehicle. This can only be completely fixed in the next-generation ML, which will take a couple years to come.

My point is that if MB had made the ML in '98 a good-quality, MB-style truck with all normal parts and using whatever was necessary to make a good truck, the cost would have been thousands of dollars more than it was, so no one would buy it. That might have killed the midsize-luxury-SUV market from the start.

After the ML's introduction, the RX, X5, and the MDX have been released but they are competing in a market that has already been developed. The X5 - also made in the US - has its own quality problems.

The issue with fixing up the ML is that they would have to make a completely new car and they can't just go around making new generations every year - they have a set product cycle (which is now shortened but is still there). That's why the next-gen ML is the one that will hopefully fix all the current problems.

I agree that these problems have caused MB great harm and many customers, even loyal buyers who have bought MB for generations, have left the company for Acura or Lexus. It's just natural that people who come later build on the success of the people who came first and learn from their mistakes and problems.

timdf

IMHO It's generally known that the ML has a number of problems - regardless of model year and that many of them are due to cost cutting or inadequate testing / QA.
But the biggest issue with the ML is the way it has damaged the MB brand as a whole and turned off a whole bunch of customers.
Then factor in MB USA's generally poor attitude to those owners with problem ML's and you've got some serious customer relation problems.
This is not a good thing for the long term.
From reading the C class forums it would seem that the ML is not the only MB product suffering from this malaise...

Tim

'00 ML430 with 23 warranty claims
'02 Porsche 996

steph280

I can speak from experience on C class.

I bought my C280 new in 1995, and it has nothing but problems. Not just minor problems, but serious ones including gas leak caused by cracked gas tank, instrument cluster shorting out, head gasket leaks, etc.

I was about to trade it in for a 02 ML320, but looks like I will have to think twice about mercedes.

I think MB has an overall QA problem, not just poor design of the ML nor the fact it's assembled in the US.

It's sad to see such a prestegious name losing its loyal followers. But with my busy schedule, a reliable car is far more important than style/performance/name/etc.

The folks at Toyota/Honda could teach Mercedes a lesson or two on QA.

My $.02...

kbarrett123

The other real dissappointment is the horrible depreciation of the vehicle. I purchased in Jan 2001 and the vehicle came from the factory the latter part of December 2000. I am finding out from Kelly Blue book and Edmunds websites that a 2001 ML320 in excellent condition is only worth about 29K to 32K. Quite a first year dip. I will have to shell out a large downpayment on my next vehicle, however I will consider that a sufficient negative stimulus the next time I think about buying a Mercedes. At the suggestion of other members I have also visited Mercedes-Lemon.com and posted my ownership experience there also. Reliability issues and customer treatment was also the reason I stopped buying GM products back in the late 80's. My reason then is still valid today- I dont make enough money to waste on a shoddy product.
kbarrett123

1SICKLEX

Well, it is built in Alabama. The press had made a big deal of the car's reliability and it's issues, you did not hear?

kbarrett123

I really dont believe that the vehicle's quality is purely dependent on where it is built. Fine examples are the nissan plants and toyota plants building the Camry and Altima/Frontier pickups throughout the Southern States. This excuse seems to be the cheap easy path to an explanation for the vehicle's poor performance. The underlying problems here seem to be engineering related (the window switchblock, etc), combined with a mediocre approach to customer service. Looking at these pages it is evident that the vehicle has problems- we all agree, however I am interested in what people think is the best SUV from a quality and reliability perspective?

whatup?

Hey,

Every car has its problems. My mom's 2003 Jaguar S-Type squeaks and rattles more than our 1998 ML320 ever did. And the chrome trim around the rear passenger window is coming off. We never had such obvious quality control issues in our ML.

The ML is extremely well-engineered, but its execution left something to be desired (especially for something with a three-pointed star).

It's unfortunate that Mercedes-Benz can no longer remain competitive under "built to a standard, not to a cost" philosophy. But it's necessary. Blame it on Lexus...they sold the original LS400 for $35K, which was significantly less than the S-Class at the time. Would you have bought an ML is it were $60K? I think the company needs time to adjust to building to a cost. And I think the new E and SL are a good sign that the company is getting better at it.

As for the best SUV for quality and reliability...probably the Honda CRV or Subaru Forester.

timdf

when we bought it new for cash and so far it has suffered from all the usual ML gremlins - resulting in 23 warranty claims, mostly for electrical stuff.
It falls far short of what a 50k+ auto should offer in terms of reliability.
Sadly practically all of our problems have been related to domestically engineered / sourced components - parts which have no doubt been sourced from the lowest bidder :-(
I for one would not have minded paying a little more for a 'true' MB product.
But as it stands I consider the ML a second rate product with third rate after sales support from MB USA and as a result cannot recommend MB products to anyone else.
On the plus side, the ML is a good safe design - just poorly executed in the name of profit.

Mrhuynh99

Wow. All the negative talk about the ML is getting me worried. I just got a 2003 ML 320 and hope I dont see any recurring problems. So far, it has been great. Love the third row seat option. I was going to wait for the ML 350 in January but glad I got the ML now.

JJunkins

Mr. Barrett, sounds like you have a few flesh wounds with your ML. The window thing is common. I had it freak out on me in the rain as well except I ripped off the window switch cause I was so mad.

You want a real list of problems? Email me with your fax number and I will send you the 26 pages of service records that I have. I am in a pretty substantial lemon law/Magnuson Warrant Act lawsuit with Mercedes. I have to take my car to someone other than a dealer and pay nearly $200 for an inspection to prove to the judge that my car is crap. Oh, I forgot to mention that I just got it out of the shop on Friday. It was there all week long.

TheGreat1

Are the ML really this much problem? The reasons, I am asking is that I am planning to get an ML 430 1999.. Is there problems I need to know or asked the Dealership? B/C base on this thread there problems issue that need tobe resolved.. thanks for input

JJunkins

Save yourself the trouble, buy a BMW X5. In the long run you will be happier. The most inconvient thing on the ML is the location of the volume knob. Everytime I want to turn it up or down, I have to reach across the car. The ML doesn't not have ANY controls on the steering wheel unless you consider the horn a control. Where I live, it's more like a weapon. Alson, you will learn to hate the seats. Instead of sitting in the seat, you sit on it. I have found that the backseats are more comfortable for riding. The 99 model doesn not have the MCS with no available option for the Navi, if you are going to get one, at least get a 2000. That way you can add Navi and a phone if you would like. If you want to email me for a list of all my problems, feel free. JJunkins@interactsys.com

Darkmann

Yes, they do have some problems. But, MY00 and above had most of these resolved. To date, MY02 and 03 are probably the best. Several changes were made in MY02. Also, remember that the 4yr/50K FREE service didn't get into effect until MY00, I believe. Please check this b4 buying. I have a MY02 and it's been problem free so far - well, sort of. They've had to readjust a few minor things, all quality related. Whatever you do, get a MB starmarked vehicle - you get 1yr/100K (including original miles) free service if MY00 or better (again, please check on the MY00 cutoff).

amb9800

The quality problems are for the most part most common in '98's, '99's and '00's. Most '02's do not have the quality problems that owners of previous-MY ML's did. The topic has been discussed over and over again, but MB's cost-cutting in the original design of the ML (which was in order to create the midsize luxury SUV market) still shows up to some degree in later ML's, which were modified with new technology, features, etc. Basically, the ML is still at heart a cost cutting vehicle.

However, the quality problems are also linked to the growing number of technological and computerized systems in luxury cars. That's why BMW also has similar quality issues on many of their models - the most infamous being the new 7-series, with an average vehicle requiring hours of software reprogramming and troubleshooting by the dealer.

Regarding the X5 - it is much smaller than the ML in interior room. Just look at the rear legroom and trunk room in the X5 as compared to the ML - it's obvious that they are meant for two different purposes. The ML is meant as a balance between interior space, offroad capability, and onroad handling, while the X5 has more sports-car genes in it, and it happens to carry the trait of being small in many ways as well.

If you want an SUV just for the sake of having an SUV, rather than because you want room, then go for the X5. The X5 is basically a tall version of a sports wagon, with reduced room. It has better handling, etc. than the ML, but it is meant for that and thus sacrifices interior room. The rear legroom is almost half that of the ML and can become very uncomfortable. But that doesn't matter if you don't plan on having anyone in the back seat. The trunk room is a lot smaller as well, but if you don't need much trunk space at all, then that doesn't matter as well.

My point is that if you want a sports SUV and are happy with the space of a sports car, go with the X5. The ML is meant more for people who want more room and a balance of sport and utility and do not require sports-car handling.

The difference is made clear by the comparison of the highest models of each lineup - the X5 4.6is and the ML55 AMG. The ML55 matches the 4.6 in almost all performance measures and has much more room and off-road/bad-weather capability. The 4.6 has more or less the same performance, but offers sports-car-like handling, at the cost of interior room.

So IMO you cannot just say 'go for the X5' because it too has its problems (which also include quality problems) and some problems that are much more serious than any little issue the MLs have - such as those new recalls regarding spontaneous combustion in X5's. Plus it's meant for people with different needs.

Personally my '02 has been without any problem whatsoever, but it's still only about six months old. I have seen many '01's and the like that also have no problems - that is the case with most newer ML's. You also have to remember that although there are many people on forums like this complaining about quality issues, from a broad view of all owners of recent ML's, they constitute only a small percentage.

For people looking to get an ML, definitely try to get one later than the '99 model year, preferably an '01 or '02 - as late as possible.

Darkmann

Very good points. I'm a loyal MB customer 'cause I know how these trucks perform, vis-a-vis the competition. However, I will not excuse MB for failing to address certain chronic problems, from the beginning. The fuel pump and the window switch problems are two examples where a simple permanent fix could've been implemented in within the first two years - by MY2K. The mistake that MB made was thinking it was building an "inexpensive" truck. At 40K+, the ML is still not "inexpensive" to a lot of people!!! At $40K+ and given MB's reputation for good quality, people in the US expected more than what the ML offered. Most Mb buyers would've spent an estra $2-3K to have a better built truck!!! Why MB did not address this when early production ML's were popping out with problems is a mystery to me. My belief is that MB saw success in the early models ('cause there were no cempetitors available then) and neglected to capitalize on owners complaints to build a better truck. That will lead to their demise unless they come out with a redesigned truck that encompasses what owners have been complaining over the years. Look at my situation, for example. I dissed Nissan 'cause despte several years of asking, they never came out with a Pathfinder with 3rd row, despite the fact that the clear trend (and very necessary for that) is towards 3rd row - those of us who bought them several years ago have grown and now have families. To ignore that is "immoral" in engineering design. MB will wake up, and I hope gor goodness sake that the next ML has two essential things: steering controls, a-la E-Class and a rear tailgate glass that can be opened/closed.

stumpie

naw...most inconveniet thing is not one thing, but many... and the X5 is not the answer...even at $10K more.....the Acura MDX is the goods, trust me...

missthebus

Here's my initial 10k quality report.

2002 ML320

Manufactual date is FEB, 2002

Took delivered in May, 2002

In for service: Oil change at 5k (not necessary), Tire balance and rotation.

Quality issues:
1) Rattles.
2) Vibration (at speed above 70MPH). Note tire balance and rotation above (did not help.)
3) Paint on trims around doors are peeling off.
4) Driver side back door lock sound like a rusted hinge when unlock (up action).
5) Smell of coolant once a while.
6) whistle noise from fuel tank. (excessive)
7) The carpet from the floor panels that go in the back of the second row seats are peeling off. (never been use).
7) Low beams are too high.

All above issues will be on the A service list plus turn off speed compensation audio and any that may arrive with about 2k more til service.

A matter of preference:
Thumbs Up:
Ride
Power
Handling
Safety features
Most Electronics (Bose, Nav, Tele-Aide...)

Thunbs Down:
The quality list above
DVD (dealer installed option w/ 2 headrest 5.6" SAVV; basically useless.)
Soft brake
Fuel consumption

Overall Satisfaction:
8 out of 10.

With all these rattles, I can only wonder at the quality of the ML further down the road. A MB should not have this kind of issue, but we'll see.
I am not a bit worry about the ML being built in America, what I am worry about is that the ML is built in America by Chrysler, and if my memory serve me right; Chrysler didn't go out of business because they built quality cars.
The bottom line is, assuming that all the safety features on it work when I need them, then I'll be satisfied.

Missthebus

timdf

With all due respect, if that's all you've got wrong / had problems with - then be happy :-))
Some of us (me included) have had dreadful trouble with the build quality of the ML and MB USA's couldn't care less attitude :-(
Check out my ML430 (it's a 2000) with 23 warranty claims (now actually more) on www.mercedes-lemon.com

Darkmann

Why did you have to change the oil at 5K. Your choice or a malfunction?? usually, it's 10K+ for first "A" service.

Rattles: There are some. Most comon comes from the rear passenger seat area. Look at your setbelt latch - it could be hitting the "C" pillar. That's usually a comon cause of rattle and all you have to do is readjust. Also, stuff in the door pockets rattle 'casue of high stiffness of door pocket material. Check these areas. Any other rattles would hopefully be addressed during "A" service.

Power???? You must be kiding. The 320 rides well but power is not at all it's strong point. Granted, it delivers a lot of torque but I think it's very underpowered, especially when they made the MY2K heavier and still left the 215HP motor I there. I believe you can easily guess why they are now coming with a ML350 with 25 more horses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dealer installed headrest installed DVD??? That's not even a MB option. How did you get that done????

Fuel consumption for me is 16-19 city and 22-14 hwy - I'm usually in the 65-80mph range. My '95 150K miles trouble free Pathfinder which I traded for the ML was averaging 13 mpg, and it was lighter!!! I'm happy with my mileage.

That's about right!!!

MB has grossly missed the boat here in addressing the quality problems with the ML. Though I'm quite happy with mine, I'm certain MB is working on designing parts that can be manufactured and assembled with as little problems as possible. Mb shouldn't shoot for an inexpensive SUV - afterall, the ML's aren't really that affordable. So, for 2-3K more, I'll still buy a ML with less quality (and poor reputation) problems.

missthebus

I am OK with my ML, I gave it a fair 8 out of 10, so I not really complaining about anything major.
my post is nothing more than an info update on the condition and my experiences of the vehicle.

No I did not have to change the oil at 5k and I put "not necessary" in my quote, but I just wanted to be safe.

In term of power, try down shift at 65mph or so, it will probably outrun most Japanese SUVs on the market with bigger engine.
Initial start off the line is underpower, yes, but passing power is more of a concern to me than racing off the line.

Here's some info on the DVD system.

Dealer Installed Option. (Smythe in San Jose, CA)

Cost: $2k

Audiovox DVD player mounted under front passenger seat.

2 SAVV 5.6" monitors 1 behind each front seat headrest with leather matching covers and 2 credit card size remotes. The matching leather headrests themselves are from SAVV.

2 wireless surround sound headsets with the IR transceiver mounted just before the back dome light.

Sound can be play through the Bose also via FM modulation at 89.1Mhz with the on/off switch mounted to the right of the steering column. (nobody knew what that button is for until I had a problem with the DVD system 2 months later, not the saleman, not the SA not the Tech.)

1 remote controller for the player with the receiver mounted on the inside of the driverside B pillar, right above the SRS emblem.

How does the system got to be there, well thats before I bought the truck. One time I had a problem with it and the SA stated that he has to sent the truck to a third party dealer who installed it to look at it.

Here's why I said it's useless in my previous post.
Like:
Audio through the headsets.

Dislike:
No memory on the player; everytime I start the car, the disk start back from the beginning.

No memory on the monitors; I have to adjust the properties (brightness, contrast....) every time the cars turn off

Here's why I have to adjust the monitors' properties:
Its default setting is dark, its viewing angles is terrible, basically if I don't look at it straight on then it's just like looking at my Handspring Prism. Up the brightness help a little bit, but not good.

Flickers when engine is running.

Flickers enven worst when engine is running and lights are on.

Hope this help.

Missthebus.

XPRO.US

It is not the car that is dissappointing now, it is the freaking OIL Company gouging the oil price. My woman (ML500) and I (C55) find ourself paying $3.45 a gallon here in Los Angeles. Mr. Bush, do something about it!! When is MBZ coming out with a Hybrid Suv and sedan?

PaulX608

You resurrected a three and a half year old thread just to make that statement? Surely you could have found a better way.