JJunkins

Is there anyone else out there suing Mercedes for their ML lemon?

I've been in this lawsuit for about 6 months now and I'm just wondering if there was someone that had some success. I have a great lawyer but the might MBUSA seems to be beating-around-the-bush when it comes to some kind of replacement vehicle. I've also sent some pretty intense emails to the president of MBUSA, Mr. Paul Halata. If anyone needs his MBUSA email address, let me know ---> JJunkins@interactsys.com I will go ahead and warn you, it does no good to email him but it sure feels great to vent to the big boss!!! Stay away from John Segader as well, he's the regional service manger for the southeast and he's a jerk!!

Here's a pic of the catalytic converter on the drivers side. Notice how the weld is split ALL THE WAY AROUND!! Leaving nothing but hot air and noise beneath my car!

Mr. Xristo

Not only can you file a lemon law suit, you can also file a complaint with the BBB in your area against the dealership..

What a bunch of F####N snakes. ?? I simply do not understand. Replacing your vehicle would cost them ZERO after all is said and done.

Darkmann

JJ, what led to this fiasco to end up in a law suit?? Is the truck out of warranty?? It seems clear to me that that is an emmissions violation and the dealer should've taken care of it without even involving the regional office. Are there other problems (should I even ask!)??? I don't recall what the warranty on emissions parts is but it is usually more than the general 4/50 warranty.

JJunkins

The picture on there happens to be the only picture that I have REAL evidence that my car is trash.

I have had so many problems with my ML. Yes my car is out of warranty. I have 58,??? miles on it. Yes, it was out of warranty when this happened (the pic) but it was the second time it has happened. The first was in warranty. This and the rest of my problems added up to become a nice little lawsuit. Actually, I cannot sue them for lemon law violation but for something called the Magnuson Warranty Act (not sure on the name). It basically says that Mercedes violated the lemon law clause. Legally, since I have a lawyer, I am not responsible for the vehicle. I don't have to make the payments if I don't want to but they will ruin my credit so I do. My dealership also has been repairing everything I throw at em but eventually, it breaks again. Thank god they do it for free. If you want a real list of problems that I've had with my car, I would be more than willing to list them.

Mr. Xristo

yes please list the issues so that other ML owners will know!

JJunkins

11,909 Wheels badly out of balance.

23,418 Transmission shifts rough from 1st – 2nd.
Throttle cable sticking.
Lost an oxygen sensor

28,149 Transmission gets worse.
Drivers and passenger windows make a loud clunky
noise.

28,488 Transmission gets worse.
Service dept. blows my driver side speaker.
Drivers and passenger windows clunky, again.
Flutter in the center airvent.
Throttle cable sticking, again.

31,334 Transmission gets worse.
Drivers and passengers windows clunky, again.
Throttle cable once again sticks.
Missing a fuse for the trailer lights.

31,372 Throttle cable nearly causes a wreck!

35,493 Service dept. blows the speaker, AGAIN!
Windows still clunky.
Glove fell apart for no apparent reason.
Leaking washer fluid reservoir.
Another throttle cable.

35,785 Needed an alignment.

38,672 Throttle cable again.

44,100 Blew out the passenger side catalytic converter.
Rear exhaust leak too.
Transmission fluid begins to leak.

47,153 Window refuses to rise. I ripped off the raise/lower
switch. FUN!!
Parking brake fails.

52,263 Throttle cable is back.
Blew out the driver side catalytic converter.
Alarm sounds for no reason. Glass break sensor
removed.

53,052 Rear exhaust heat shield falls off.
Auxiliary A.C. fans takes a hike.

55,735 Mass air flow sensor joins the list.

58,036 Child recognition sensor fails under passenger seat.
Throttle cable too.

Every instance is a trip to the dealership. Yes, I know that some of the issues are miniscule but I paid $45,000 and I want it to work right by God!! The bigger issues are the sensors, the throttle cable and the tranny.

Mr. Xristo

Oh my... Does the lawsuit look favorable? By law, if you no longer have to pay for the vehicle while all of this is going on, then there should be nothing stopping you.

If they were to screw with your credit, then you would be able to sue them for that as well.

Personally, I would take them to the bank for there lack of caring.

JJunkins

If they play with me long enough. I'm going to make this a long and drawn out process. As long as I get something else to drive in the meantime, I don't care it if takes 10 years if the outcome is more than $500,000. I know that it won't be that for my lemon suit but if they screw with me, I will sue for other reasons. I know that sounds a bit greedy but if there are other people out there like me, maybe the point will get across. Someone has got to put Mercedes in their place. They can't continue to take advantage of loyal customers.

timdf

Hope you get it resolved OK. Wish I could be bothered to take the same route as you, because as you can see from below our '00 ML430 is far from perfect and like you, the local SW MB USA rep doesn't care. So I'm going to vote with my wallet.
BTW we paid full retail in cash for this quality truck.....

All these problems in the first 30,000 miles - once it's out of warranty it's gone !

1. MCS (radio, CD player, nav system) unit failure – replaced under warranty.

2. Remote central locking failure – keys replaced 5 times on 4 separate visits, authorization module changed 3 times.

3. Engine check light – Oxygen sensor replaced.

4. Door locks fail to lock – take 2-3 attempts. Authorization module changed again and locks re-aligned.

5. Rear window switches failed. Replaced under warranty.

6. Front driver’s window switch failed. Left with window in stuck down position. Switch & motor replaced under warranty.

7. The passenger front seat rocks under acceleration – loose / broken mount. Repaired under warranty.

8. Fuel gauge inaccurate – replaced under warranty.

9. Whirling noise from engine – alternator replaced, bad bearing.

10. Front passenger power seat failed – switches replaced.

11. Batter failed without warning – went open circuit.

12. Remote key entry in-operative again – key replaced.

13. Brake pad warning light failed to indicate warn brake pads.

14. Excessive sunroof wind noise when open – deflector added FOC by dealer.

15. Auxiliary cooling fan (F44) fuse blown – fixed by installing a slightly higher rated fuse.

16. Drivers side seat now loose, rocks back & forth under acceleration.

17. B pillar black plastic wrinkled – replaced under warranty at dealers suggestion, but they messed up the interior trim.

18. The driver’s window rattles when lowered 2-3 inches – sounds like something is tapping the glass inside the door. Still not fixed – seems all ML’s suffer from this problem, ignoring it from now on.

19. Center console material cover stretch, replaced under warranty by dealer without my prompt.

20. Squeak coming from the light / handle fixture behind the driver above the rear left hand door. Fixed under warranty.

21. Since the seat belt recall was performed on the rear seat belt it has become more difficult to lower and secure the rear seats. Seats adjusted but still difficult.

22. Leather on underside of rear seats keeps coming un-clipped – poor design, not repaired as yet. Fixed myself.

23. Loud bang from rear seats when going over speed humps – even slowly. Fixed myself by adding felt.

24. Drivers side window keeps on sticking - doesn't seem to be the switch this time. Makes a nasty sound.

89CE

Technically, if the same problem persists after having the dealer address it for 4 or more times, then you are eligible for either a replacement vehicle, or a refund of whatever you paid for your car, less depreciation from the mileage of your delivery up to the mileage of the first occurance of said problem.
Having said that, if you have different problems popping up here and there, then all you can do is bring the car back to the dealership until your warranty expires. The lemon law only protects you if the initial occurance of the problem happens within the warranty term.
My experience with my ML is the brakes. The dealership replaced the rotors and calipers for 3 times until it broke down for the 4th time. This time, I had a letter to MBUSA backing me up and informing them that I know my rights, and that if after the 4th attempt the problem is not resolved, that I will be demanding a refund less depreciation. By the way, the problem was that the rotors kept on getting warped. The district service manager got involved and brought in an engineer straight from the plant. They did an extensive testing on my vehicle and finally concluded that the left front control arm assembly was a few degrees off from what the specs are. They replaced the assembly and never had a problem since. My car still runs fine, with no problems whatsoever after 53,000 miles. I just hope it stays that way.
Good luck in your effort to get things right.

Some Pete Guy

Why did you include these items? They are normal wear and tear items.

Your catalytic converter is covered under warranty to 8 years/80,000 miles. Why did they refuse to fix it?

JJunkins

I included that because that it what my lawyer told me to tell the Mercedes lawyer, (every service instance). I didn't have time to sit around and pick out every item that I thought that everyone would think, "Hey, that's a wear-and-tear item."

Sorry.

j2nh

2000 ML-430 purchased new 2/12/00.

8/28/01
ETS?BAS light on dash is on and will not shut off.
Repair brake light switch.
Right rear passenger window has sound dampening material stuck to it.
Removed soundproofing from door.
Sunroof has soundproofing material stuck to it.
Removed headliner and removed the material per service bulletin.
Left side of drivers seat bottom coming loose.
Replaced screws.
Passenger side 12v accessory power plug inoperable.
Replaced fuse.
Center armrest cover leather coming apart.
Replaced the center armrest leather.
Vanity light on mirror on passengers side inoperative.
Replaced mirror.

11/26/01
Drivers door wont open from the outside when locked.
Adjust and Check function.
Sunroof whistles Repair again.
Adjust and correct position of sunroof.

3/01/02
Coolant light coming on when driving.
Improperly installed lower clamp from factory. Replaced.

3/02/02
Coolant light coming on when driving.
Top off coolant. (they forgot to check the level after replacing the clamp the previous day).

5/3/02
Transmission Failure.
Replaced transmission.
Brake squeal.
Replaced rotors and pads.
No complaint.
Performed fuel line, filter and pump update.
Drivers door will not open from the outside when the door is locked.
Replaced lock actuator and door handle.

11/25/02
Transmission Failure. Vehicle will not move out of low (1st gear)
Plastic over instruments has cracked vertically in two places.
Sunroof still howls badly.

11/28/02
Relay replacement for Transmission. Fault codes C1025 & C1200
Fault code N1144 for MCS navigation system. Replaced navigation antenna.
Clear plastic over instrument cluster and sunroof will be addressed at next service. Plastic has now cracked in three places all vertically (imagine looking at that everytime you get in the vehicle).
Very calmly addressed the excessive warranty issues associated with this vehicle to the Service Advisor and the Service Manager. I was told that someone from MBUSA would be in contact with me next week (this was a Friday).

12/12/02
Returned call from Regional Rep for MBUSA. Definatly not interested in my problems. "Nothing out of the ordinary in the service history", "This is not a lemon" which was interesting because he brought it up, I didn't and had no intention of doing so. "I've seen worse" was I think supposed to make me feel better. All in all most unsatisfactory. He agreed to look in to a couple of small things, sunroof and door soundproofing and of course as of today has not gotten back with me.

My question to MBUSA is a fairly simple and straighforward one. Does this vehicle meet the quality standards that MBUSA has for it's vehicles? They are telling me that it does. Would a perspective buyer have reservations about this particular vehicle given its service history? Would you?

Customer satisfaction is an easy thing to say if the vehicle has no problems but what about the small minority of vehicles that do have more than there share? In my opinion MB trades on a reputation for quality and service that no longer exists. Given my age and sphere of influence, MB has lost far more than what it would have cost them to assist me in getting out of this vehicle. Can anyone say X5?
Jim
00 ML 430 (buyer beware!)
01 996

Steve777

I had an '01 ML320 w/25K miles and a stack of warrantee repair orders about 2 inches thick.

I fought with MBUSA and the dealer that sold me the car - long story short - after about 2 months of complaining -

I'm driving the ML320 back to the dealer on Tuesday and MBUSA is giving me a replacement '03 ML350 - same options (M1, M2, M5, M7, BOSE, and heated seats) for an upgrade charge of $450.

I'd say that MBUSA made me a deal I don't think I'll ever get again.

Granted that the ML320 was still under warrantee.

JJunkins

WOW, you got very lucky. They usually drag eveything out until the last day before court.

I would like to have my money back minus depreciation and mileage.

Darkmann

JJ, what I don't understand in your case is that the converter problem is an emissions violation and the emissions systems (including the converter) is under warranty for 8 years, I believe. Yours should still be under warranty and why won't they fix it? Don't they know this? Or am I completely off base???

JJunkins

Ther converter is just one of the many problems that I've had. It was really the only defect that I was able to get some good solid proof, hence the photograph. There's no way for me to get a picture of my MCS volume becoming unexpectingly loud or my wind all the way down due to an in-op siwtch controller or my transmission shifting terribly rough from first to second gears....see my point?

My danger is the throttle cable. It shears the insulating off itself just as it comes out of the firewall (because the degree of angle from the firewall to the throttle body is too steep) and creates a binding or sticking action. That makes the gas pedal feels notchy on ones foot will pressing or depressing the gas pedal. There's only so much it can shear away until it's bear metal cable against bare metal firewall. That will inturn, led to rust and corrosion and many more problems.

JJunkins

Excuse me, I meant to say "my window" in the above post.

JJunkins

Also, why did you put my entire post in quotes? Isn't it obvious what I wrote?

Just wondering...

hez365

Hi everyone. I own a 2002 ML500, bought in Mrach this year. It is our second Merc (the first, an E320, was totaled ).

I have mixed sentiments about the ML. I love the engine, but think the overall build quality is on par with Chrysler. It was very interesting reading all the posts (I can't believe someone actually got a replacement ML - this has to have the same probability as winning the lottery.) I think if we can find enough people out there with the same complaints we can force a recall t solve some of the more common problems (like the cracked/loose D-pillar cover).

My biggest problems have been with the Heating /AC system, and chips on the windshield. The heating sstem has a mind of its own. They replaced the panel when the system kept coming on by itself at startup, but now the thing keeps making noises for about half an hour after shutting down. I brought it in but they said they could not replicate the problem.

The windshield seems to chip easily also. I have had two chips so far, which had to be spot treated. I am in the process of complaining about this, because my Mercedes dealer subcontracted the auto glass service which "fixed" the chips, and just yesterday a crack busted out from the repaired spots! I will need a whole new windshield now. The cause for the spreading seemed to be the AC system defogger, which in my car blows max temp air at max volume when turned on. This temperature differential (cold out/hot air blowing inside) perhaps combined with shoddy glass repair must have cause the crack to spread.

Anyone got similar gripes?

My other niggles include:

- an accelerator which jiggles side to side like it is going to fall off
- the D-pillar cover (mine was coming off, my service guy new the problem right away, said most of them crack)
- the roatary AC controls which must be the equivalent of BMW's I-drive
- the spare tire layout, which will force me to go under the car when I get a flat
- very difficult to fold rear seats

JJunkins

I have the same problem with my gas pedal. On top of it being sticky, it does wiggle side to side as if it were about to fall off. I've just learned to live with it.

I've read from a lot of people that the D pillar cracks and falls off. Mine has not. Strange. The problems I am supposed to have, haven't happened yet.

My windshield seems ok but it does chip easily.

The spare tire is in an "ok" location. It's really better than it seems. Once you loosen or remove the nut and release the tray, it should slide out to your feet. I broke the nut off of mine and thought that I was screwed but wasn't and it did break incredibly easily. (I had a blowout in the woods)

hez365

Well you have something to look forward to! Your D-pillar cover coming off. A buddy of mine has a '02 ML320. We were in a paking lot when I told him of the problem. I walked over to his ML and sure enough his cover was about to fall off! Same driver side too. He went to the dealer shortly after me.

The windshield is pissing me off. I now will need a new one, which I guess will run 8-900 bucks. I will try arguing a discount of some sort. Does your lawyer practice in CA as well? I have never had a car which chips so easily.

My dealer offered to shim the gas pedal for me. I said forget it. My concern was that the thing would fall off (not cool to happen on a CA freeway while doing 80!) but if they are built that way, oh well.

JJunkins

No sorry, they don't practice in CA but here's their website anyhow. Maybe they have a connection for you.

www.yourlemonlawrights.com

Talking about going 80 on the highway. I was going 80 in Knoxville, TN. when my mass air flow sensor went out.

hez365

Good luck with your ML suit, maybe you will win the lottery too and get a new ML. Or mabe ask for an E instead! Let us know what happens.

JJunkins

Most people think that 4 repair attempts entitles them to a new car or their money back. It's not always like that. In my state, GA, it's 3 repair attempts. It's different in all states. GA is the most lenient.

If the manufacturer cannot provide a safe and reliable vehicle after the number of state required attempts and allows the vehicle to fall beyond it's warranty period, then that is a breach in written warranty and is therefore covered under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The manufacturer is then liable for more than just the "lemon law".

So, people out there that think they have too many miles on their car to complain about are really entitled to something. They are just a little uneducated in the legal part of it. A few hours of reading can clear all that up.