MikeC825

1999 ML 430 150,000 mi
Was out yesterday and engine started running rough, Was heading to a gas station to get off the road and some new gas when it would only creep at about 2mph very roughly and then stalled. Would start, but ran rough for about 20 sec then died again. Codes pulled were for fuel trim malfunction (2) and cylinder #1 misfire. ( unfortunately, I left the paper with the codes in the car.)
After waiting 1 1/2 hour for a tow truck, started it and it seemed to run fine and smooth, then a bit rough again. But was able to drive it on/off the flat bed with no trouble.
A dealer was less than a mile away, so dropped it off and waiting to hear Monday.

Any ideas of what I am in for and what to authorize or not?
Thanks in advance

MikeC825

Need Help, just got a call from the dealer. ( but there is a kicker, when we were sitting with him when we dropped it off, my wife said we need a new one)
He had No clear reason, for the breakdown and stalling. He feels there is a lot of work needed and the smart thing would be to do nothing and buy a new car like your wife said.
He says the catalytic converters are cracked on the outside, replacing them could mean also the exhaust manifolds, there was some trans oil leaking on the Mass flow sensor,
Tie rod ends worn, 2 ball joints bad.


When I questioned him on the reason for getting it running based on what they found, he began going in circles. When asked about the codes, he said there were some old ones and they don't know the most recent.
I just want to get this running.....and out of the dealer.

Maj. Dundee

Fuel trim codes will appear when there is fuel starvation. Either you fuel filter is clogged or your fuel pump is on its way out.

As for the cracked catalytic converters, there is a recall on this issue, so discuss it with your adviser.

Trans. oil cannot leak on the MAF Sensor. Totally impossible.

Get your truck out of there as they are selling you a bill of goods that you do not need.

MikeC825

I am calling him now! I'll let you know after I am finished with him.
( Wife and I are fighting because I am blaming her for saying we need a new one, not a good morning.....I wish I could let you hear the message he left on the phone.......No diagnostic reasons, most you need a new car like your wife said)
You would think if they could not see which codes were new, that they would reset them and see what comes up??)

But on the same note, I don't want to drive it out and get stuck again. I may authorize the fuel filter and discuss the mass Air flow sensor ( He had mentioned and oil leak and a trans leak, so I may have that wrong) If so, I'll let them do that.
And get it out of there.

I will also discuss the recall.........Surprised they did not mention that?? as they did mention 3 other recalls ( minor ones they were going to take care of..........all unrelated to this.)

But I agree 100%, They are not being fair on this.

MikeC825

I noticed the recall info was for a ML320 does that also cove the ML430? My vin numbers do fall in that range......Please let me know
Thanks again!

MikeC825

Dealer claims that was a very specific Vin # and although mine was in the range, it was not included.
I am waiting to hear back from them to deal just with the code issues. And get the car back on the road.

On the positive side.........LOL MB states a new policy that if you spend $100 at any dealer, you get 18 months roadside towing assistance. Sure, they make that back 100x

He is checking with the mech if a MAF and fuel filter makes sense and leave the exhaust alone. Know way to make certain converters are blocked or not, but I doubt external cracks is a 100% valid reason to replace everything.

Maj. Dundee

The recall was accessed from Alldata using that model & year and means absolutely nothing.

But in the letter it specifically states 1999-2001 ML 320 and 430.

Why are you letting them change your MAF sensor when it should be obvious by its location that no trans. fluid can contaminate it.

MikeC825

$2219!
The problem turned out to be a fuel pump, so the original Fuel trim malfunction error was the source.
However, after they dropped both Cat converters to check, and tested the MAF ( wasted time effort and my cost), replaced the fuel filter, which had no affect anyway ( which I agreed) ........the fuel pump was the LAST to do and the problem!
This also includes a belt change, as they claimed my belt was split down the middle. Hard to disagree when your not there to see it! I refused a belt tensioner replacement as it was just done a year 1/2 ago. ( I will check it as soon as I get some nice weather )
Bottom line rip off again.......You have to look at everything before you drop it off to keep them honest.

They also listed some $4800 more in other work as recommended ( upper/lower ball joints, left/right tie rod ends ( complete steering rack 6 years ago), brakes & rotors, belt tensioner, trans pilot bushing,valve cover oil leaks, power steering reservoir leak.
Now I have to verify all these items, as the truck is barely worth that!

I'll have to tweak my tax return now to make up some cash and keep it from Obama handing it out to those with brand New MB's

MikeC825

PS, does anyone have a cut away of the transmission so I can see what this "pilot bushing? And if it is a Do it yourself job?

Maj. Dundee

The pilot bushing they refer to is on the right side of the trans. Remove the small heat shield and then separate the connector. If fluid is present between the halves then you will have to replace it.

MikeC825

Do you know if much trans fluid leaks out when removed? Just want a feel, or should some be drained out? Thanks again Mike

I am searching now for a DIY for the serpentine belt tension-er replacement, if I can't find one here, would you have it? And whats your opinion on aftermarket tensioners? This was replaced on a breakdown 1 1/2 years ago not at a dealer, and although I have not checked it yet, this dealer said it is worn and has play. It may have very well been an aftermarket and is bad.

Thanks in advance ( I am trying to check all the items I did not have them do, next is the Power steering reservoir leak)

Maj. Dundee

First separate the connector to check, then if there is fluid, either drain off a quart or two or jack up the right side of the truck to minimize spillage.

Treat your car nicely. Buy OE when things are so important.

MikeC825

Thanks again.......as soon as weather is decent, I'll check them & pick up OEM tensioner..........lol

I can see fun time coming! But $428 for the tensioner and $228 for the pilot bushing was high after $2000
And for the minor PS resevior leak, I may even try Valvoline additive for $203
Thats about $860 for probably $250.

Maj. Dundee

You are getting the run around on the cats. They are responsible. I would still call the EPA telling them that they refused to make the repair.

MikeC825

When I pushed on this with the MB customer service # ( not the dealer) and told her my Vin is in the range given in the recall, the person told me it was for very specific cars in that range, but not mine.
Back at the dealer, the mngr even showed me the computer screen with the recalls due on mine and said that was not showing. Went on to say that IF they were ever inspected, and were OK, that was it........it was time sensitive.

But I guess it may be worth a call. Do you have/heard of any experience with EPA following up on recalls?
Thanks for your interest in settling this. But there may be an issue, that in 2005 they were only 6 yrs old, now they are 14. The argument may be they are to old now????

Maj. Dundee

In the old days everything had to be done manually, looking up teleponephone numbers in bulky phone books or calling information.

Present day has eliminated all of that and a couple of minutes on the internet supplies you with everything.

The next ting you will ask me is if I personally know someone in the EPA to speed up the process.

Why don't you just pick up the phone and see if they can help you. It's as simple as that.

http://www.epa.gov/enforcement/contact.html

Since I have done almost everything for you, it would be appreciated if you would post back with the outcome.

MikeC825

Maj, I appreciated your help, but I think you kinda mis-read my statement about having/hearing any experience with them on recalls. It was just conversation.
But I will call in tomorrow and post their response.