Small ML63 AMG Video
09-08-2005, 07:06 AM
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Mercedes-Benz A170 CDI
Small ML63 AMG Video
http://www.autocarmagazine.com/popup....asp?ar=216936
You have to hear it to believe it.....Suffice to say, I'm bowled over. :!
You could give up a bit of torque for that noise, no?
You have to hear it to believe it.....Suffice to say, I'm bowled over. :!
You could give up a bit of torque for that noise, no?
09-09-2005, 04:29 AM
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CLS63 AMG
Bilal,
Haven't heard from you in awhile.
Bilal, you are very technical oriented from you past posts.
Based on my calcs on the 7G transmissoin in the SLK55, the new CLS63 should put down more torque to the tires than the E55K. Just wanted to ask you if you had done the calculations?
amgBG
Haven't heard from you in awhile.
Bilal, you are very technical oriented from you past posts.
Based on my calcs on the 7G transmissoin in the SLK55, the new CLS63 should put down more torque to the tires than the E55K. Just wanted to ask you if you had done the calculations?
amgBG
09-10-2005, 01:36 PM
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Mercedes-Benz A170 CDI
Hello AMGBG,
Sorry for the late reply.
Its true, I haven't posted in a while, just been sort of a lurker. Most technical threads I view are just the same 'ol same 'ol: "...yeah, well the E55 has 469lbft!"
and the fact the I have been indulging in my other passion: aircraft 
Anyways, regarding this engine. The most annoying thing is, AMG have not released the gear ratios for the ML63 and R63. While it may make sense to bolt on and use the existing ratios of the SLK55's 7G Tronic, I can't help but think that AMG will have to change either some ratios or at least the final drive to really make the most of this potent combo. The ML and R-class are 4wd vehicles, and most likely, due to excessive weight, have been geared very short for improved acceleration compared to the other models this engine will go into. However, thay may just use a different final drive. Anything's possible
The 5.5 NA V8 has a redline of around 6700rpm, while this beast revs a further 500rpms more! The SLK55 has been geared so that you will hit 211mph in 7th gear at 6700rpms. Impossible, but it shows the lax gearing applied to the higher ratios. Therefore you can't help but think that the gearing applied to the other bunch (E/S/SL/CL-- C/CLK?) maybe completely different. They have to equal and possibly beat the M5, its going to be close but they might just pull it off.
You also have to remember, in recent years AMG have gone very pro-active on the amount of modifications they do. The C55 has a different AMG-grafted CLK nose, the ML has fender flares and so on. I believe AMG did ask Mercedes to be more involved at the production stage of the standard models. For instance, the new S-class W221 fender flares, exaggerated yes, but they (AMG) sure can stuff a lotta' rubber down there, thereby improving the performance of the S65 and so on. One of the reasons why the CLS 55 is a better planted car than the E55, the wider stance of the CLS gave it room for extra rubber and reduced understeer.
Back to the topic, IMO, we should wait actually for a "regular" 63 Merc, like the E63/CLS63/S63 before we make any assumptions on torque output . That being said, I did briefly flirt with the idea of SLK55 gearing with the new V8 and compared the current 5 speeders potential with the 55 V8K. Here are some charts that show the torque outputs comparatively from engine to engine and the rear wheel torque WITHOUT transmission and other losses. This is assuming losses are 0%. We have no data on how to compare the efficiency of the 7G in the CLS/E63 because its not out yet :p But the result is apparent
These graphs show the torque output of each engine with its own transmission. The 63 AMG V8 has the ratios and final drive of the SLK55's 7G Tronic and the V8K is the 500hp version with the current 5 speeder and the final drive of the E55/S55/CL55 (2.65 vs 2.82 for SL55) There may be changes from this we haev no way of knowing. HOWEVER, it must be noted, this is 510HP AMG 6.3 vs ~500+hp of the 55K V8. We all know the 55K can have upwards of 530hp from the factory. All you E55 owners running around with 50hp upgrades have a substantially potent advantage over a 510hp 6.3 with 7G. So for some it may well be a step backwards
..well, can't win 'em all.
PS, PM me your email I have to share something.
Sorry for the late reply.
Its true, I haven't posted in a while, just been sort of a lurker. Most technical threads I view are just the same 'ol same 'ol: "...yeah, well the E55 has 469lbft!"
and the fact the I have been indulging in my other passion: aircraft Anyways, regarding this engine. The most annoying thing is, AMG have not released the gear ratios for the ML63 and R63. While it may make sense to bolt on and use the existing ratios of the SLK55's 7G Tronic, I can't help but think that AMG will have to change either some ratios or at least the final drive to really make the most of this potent combo. The ML and R-class are 4wd vehicles, and most likely, due to excessive weight, have been geared very short for improved acceleration compared to the other models this engine will go into. However, thay may just use a different final drive. Anything's possible
The 5.5 NA V8 has a redline of around 6700rpm, while this beast revs a further 500rpms more! The SLK55 has been geared so that you will hit 211mph in 7th gear at 6700rpms. Impossible, but it shows the lax gearing applied to the higher ratios. Therefore you can't help but think that the gearing applied to the other bunch (E/S/SL/CL-- C/CLK?) maybe completely different. They have to equal and possibly beat the M5, its going to be close but they might just pull it off.
You also have to remember, in recent years AMG have gone very pro-active on the amount of modifications they do. The C55 has a different AMG-grafted CLK nose, the ML has fender flares and so on. I believe AMG did ask Mercedes to be more involved at the production stage of the standard models. For instance, the new S-class W221 fender flares, exaggerated yes, but they (AMG) sure can stuff a lotta' rubber down there, thereby improving the performance of the S65 and so on. One of the reasons why the CLS 55 is a better planted car than the E55, the wider stance of the CLS gave it room for extra rubber and reduced understeer.
Back to the topic, IMO, we should wait actually for a "regular" 63 Merc, like the E63/CLS63/S63 before we make any assumptions on torque output . That being said, I did briefly flirt with the idea of SLK55 gearing with the new V8 and compared the current 5 speeders potential with the 55 V8K. Here are some charts that show the torque outputs comparatively from engine to engine and the rear wheel torque WITHOUT transmission and other losses. This is assuming losses are 0%. We have no data on how to compare the efficiency of the 7G in the CLS/E63 because its not out yet :p But the result is apparent
These graphs show the torque output of each engine with its own transmission. The 63 AMG V8 has the ratios and final drive of the SLK55's 7G Tronic and the V8K is the 500hp version with the current 5 speeder and the final drive of the E55/S55/CL55 (2.65 vs 2.82 for SL55) There may be changes from this we haev no way of knowing. HOWEVER, it must be noted, this is 510HP AMG 6.3 vs ~500+hp of the 55K V8. We all know the 55K can have upwards of 530hp from the factory. All you E55 owners running around with 50hp upgrades have a substantially potent advantage over a 510hp 6.3 with 7G. So for some it may well be a step backwards
..well, can't win 'em all.
PS, PM me your email I have to share something.
Last edited by Bilal; 09-10-2005 at 01:54 PM.
09-11-2005, 04:15 AM
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ML 320 CDI
Hi Bilal,
Long time no see. If you manage to get the new AMG manufaktur brochure, please share it since we bought a W164 and I wanted to know what AMG could do for us.
Long time no see. If you manage to get the new AMG manufaktur brochure, please share it since we bought a W164 and I wanted to know what AMG could do for us.
09-11-2005, 09:03 AM
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Mercedes-Benz A170 CDI
Hello Paul,
It has been a long time, but you're still posting with those weird avatars I can see
Firstly, congratulations on getting a W164, I hope you enjoy it ! The new ML has received rave reviews, especially the 320 CDI:
http://www.autocarmagazine.com/First...p?RT_ID=216985
Unfortunately Paul I do not have any new AMG brochures. You could always try the AMG Owners Club forum but knowing their clandestine ways and group unity complex, they may not offer it unless you are "one of them"...resistance is futile!
Bilal
It has been a long time, but you're still posting with those weird avatars I can see
Firstly, congratulations on getting a W164, I hope you enjoy it ! The new ML has received rave reviews, especially the 320 CDI:
http://www.autocarmagazine.com/First...p?RT_ID=216985
Unfortunately Paul I do not have any new AMG brochures. You could always try the AMG Owners Club forum but knowing their clandestine ways and group unity complex, they may not offer it unless you are "one of them"...resistance is futile!
Bilal
09-12-2005, 10:20 AM
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ML 320 CDI
Hi Bilal,
We ordered a ML 320 CDI and we'll receive it at the end of november. So before getting it, I wanted to know what was available.
I have to agree with you on the AMG owners club attitude, they have closed themselves recently and the forum is not what it used to be. I will wait until the delivery and then I'll ask the question again to them.
We ordered a ML 320 CDI and we'll receive it at the end of november. So before getting it, I wanted to know what was available.
I have to agree with you on the AMG owners club attitude, they have closed themselves recently and the forum is not what it used to be. I will wait until the delivery and then I'll ask the question again to them.
