brucerman

THANKS, Nilknarf!

N_Jay

Great job.

Two questions.
1) Where do you live?
2) How much Pizza and Beer to do mine when needed?

brucerman

N Jay, are you responding to me (brucerman) or Nilknarf? I live in West Palm Beach, FL. I'm on a no-carb diet, so neither Beer nor Pizza will work, but I do like red wine......

N_Jay

I am open to any help, when I finally decide it needs to be done.

I have been told the seals are leaking three times.

First time was when I got the car. (don't know where the oil came from)
Second time was the service after I spilled a bunch while adding a quart.
The third was the service after the oil cap worked loose on a long drive.

I wonder how many dealers have torn into the engine just because of oil spilled from the top?

Heck, at 167K miles maybe the secret is keeping the seals well oiled from the outside?

brucerman

N Jay, if you're handy, you can figure out for yourself when the oil seals need replacement. I see from other threads of yours on this site that you've replaced the oil seals already. Clean the area of the "weep" hole, driver's side, just forward of the bell-housing, and just above the oil pan. Keep that area clean, and look at it if you ever get oil spots on the driveway.

Mine went from 'no leaks' to dropping 5 quarts of oil in 3 miles. Good thing I wasn't further from home!

You're the same person who offered Beer and Pizza? Sadly, I'm too far away to take advantage of it.

Brucerman, in south Florida

N_Jay

I's sure I could get through it. I just find thigs go so much easier the second time you do something, so it always helps to have someone else who already went through it their first time.
Nope, have not done the GL. I had to do the E350 (different design) not because the seal went bad, but because I was changing a came magnet that required pulling the filter to get to a bolt.

No new spots on the driveway since the shop cleaned the sound panel after the bad oil cap.

Seems once they get oil into the sound deadening, they can drip for a long time.

nilknarf

I first discovered my problem about three months ago while under the car changing transmission fluid. My mileage at the time was around 128k. The bell housing and undercarriage panels were drenched with oil. I traced it up to the weep hole at the back of the engine. I concurrently began to notice oil spots in the driveway the size of a quarter. After a couple of months, these became about three to five inches in diameter and I knew I'd better act quickly.

Now, like many (or most) W164 owners, I need to replace my steering rack. Since I don't have a lift, I'll be seeking professional help on that.

brucerman

It sounds like you already replaced the oil/water intercooler seals, or will, soon.
My rack failed at only 85K miles. Bummer! How long has the world been making rack-and-pinion steering assemblies? I replaced it myself, without a lift. It was a BEAR! The assembly looks like a long cylinder going full-width across the car, about 4 inches in diameter, and another, shorter, cylinder at right angles to the first one, at the driver's end, that goes to the steering column. The factory started with a bare chassis, slid the smaller end of the steering rack into a hole in the passenger side inner fender well, then slid the other, driver's end, into a corresponding hole in the other fender well. The 'big' end, with the little cylinder at right angles, NEVER HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT LITTLE HOLE IN THE DRIVER"S INNER FENDER LINER. Then they installed the front differential case, then the engine, etc. When you try to take the rack out, there isn't room to angle the 'big' end upward, slide it toward the passenger's side, and take it out the top (the reverse of the factory assembly procedure) because the differential and engine are in the way. So you have to slide it out horizontally, either to left or right.
I finally managed it, but it was NOT EASY.
I recommend, getting a Drimmel tool, or a cut-off wheel, and enlarge the hole in the driver's side inner fender liner, so the 'big' end of the rack can fit through.
The Mercedes designers did not think this through, carefully enough. I think in the Mercedes dealership, they probably use a lift and a sky-hook to take the engine and differential, out through the top. The designers should have made that hole a little larger; but, if the customer is paying for it, who cares if the 2-hour job takes 15 hours? Also, there are 5 big bolts (thumb-size) down there, holding the rack and the differential in place. 4 of them are one size (22mm hex), the other is 21mm hex. Stupid! NOBODY has a 21mm wrench; standard sizes are 13mm, 15mm, 17mm, 19mm, 22mm, 24mm, etc.
The transfer case behind the transmission, that splits the power front-to-rear, also failed. Started jumping a tooth under brisk acceleration. Put in a used one, and disassembled the old one. THE CHAIN HAD STRETCHED! People have been designing chain drives since before the Wright Brothers started building bicycles! Motor output torque is known, gear radius is known, so tensile load on the chain is known; P/A is a simple calculation. Very frustrating, for an engineer, to look at another engineer's work, and realize that his supervisor wasn't doing his job, either.
The oil seals, the steering rack, and the transfer case SHOULD NOT HAVE FAILED, at relatively low mileage. Mercedes engineering is not what it used to be, but the word isn't out, yet, and they're still selling lots of cars. This is MY LAST MERCEDES! (Please pardon my rant......)

nilknarf

I read somewhere that they stuck steering racks that were designed for sedans into these much heavier SUV's and that they just haven't been able to hold up to the stresses. That's an interesting method that you describe. I've read where most of the time the front differential has to be dropped. There's one mechanic that is a member of either MBWorld or Benzworld that has figured out how to swap out the control head of the rack (the area that is typically leaking) without having to remove the rack from the car.

brucerman

I don't think mine was leaking. More like grinding, indicating wear between the rack and the pinion. That would agree with your friend's observation, that the assembly was undersized, for the loads placed on it.
As I said, sloppy engineering.

N_Jay

I agree with the engineering analysis, however you did not include weight reduction, and cost optimization, nor the compromises of "Platform" development.
Our GLs, especially the Diesels, are the heaviest model on this platform, so they have the least margin in a lot of design areas.

brucerman

N_Jay, sounds like you're connected to the MB world. I found many good comments from you, when I recently perused this thread.

On further thought, I believe that two of my three problems were due to Nilknarf's suggestion that assemblies were carried over onto other platforms. The rack-and-pinion failed from grinding, a sign of overload, from being put into a heavier chassis than it was originally designed for. SOMEONE should have checked the loads, of the old design in the newer application.

My rear transfer case failed when the chain stretched and started jumping teeth. Probably the chain drive was designed for a lighter chassis with a gasoline engine. Putting it behind a diesel engine, with more torque, would clearly overload the chain, causing it to stretch. (It's the output torque from the transmission that matters, not the weight that's being driven.) So when the decision was made to put that gearcase behind a diesel engine, SOMEONE should have checked the design input torque, against the supplied torque in the new application.

So it appears that in my ONE car, there have been TWO failures due to oversight, when components from one chassis were carried over into another, heavier, chassis, with an engine that developes more torque. I theorize that the ML and GL series will have lots of rack-and-pinion failures, and lots of gearcase failures behind the diesel engines, as mileage accumulates.

So: IS THERE A CLASS ACTION SUIT HERE, with an obvious, easily-proven oversight on the part of MB, affecting lots of customers? There was talk of that, when I was following the rack-and-pinion discussion, on MBWorld forum. Would MBW forum tackle that, or do they just provide a forum? I'm an engineer, not a lawyer. The forum could be used to accumulate names/addresses of people with rack-and-pinion failures, and gearcase failures.

Responses? PM me, if you want.

N_Jay

Probably few on the ML, and the Jeep GC, Maybe a couple on the Durango, but the GL outweighs them all.
Modern engineering leaves a lot less margin than good old hand calculations.
Torque on a driveline has to do with both torque generation, AND load.
There are not failing right and left, just enough for the enthusiasts owning them in the second 1/2 of their life to notice.
As for the rack and pinion, wide tires and weight cause the load, so I would expect to see the issue on Diesels and AMGs
I'm at 167K miles and the rack, transmission and transfer case "Seem" fine. (for now).

astrodog1

Only when reusing the heat hardened Turbo to Turbo pedestal T45 Bolts. IF you are using new ones, because the previous monkey stripped out the T45 head, its a different torque. Cant find it yet, but I know the new bolts I just bought from the stealership both would NOT take the 50NM (36.9 foot pounds) second stage!

Archydos

So I'm this situation for the removal of the turbo right now. I just bought a 2009 ML 320 Bluetec with 168k km a week ago. I'm pre-emptively changing the oil cooler seals as there's some kind of oil leak, but I haven't identified the exact source. I figured that I might as well do a full engine cleaning.

Now, I've got one stripped T45 bolt holding the turbo to pedestal. Is it possible to remove the turbo with the pedestal still attached? I think I've seen it done on E-class, but wondering if it's accessible in the w164.

Thanks!

Jay Jang-Ho Kim

did you find where this goes to?

BL1

I have changed the glowplugs in my 2008 ML 320cdi and noticed glowplugs 6 and 5 were very oily when they were removed and quite a bit of oil around where they go in, even a small pool of oil sitting there

The orange seal round the turbo on the Y pipe intake seemed ok but did have some oil round it ( would that need replacing, it has been done before )

Any ideas as to why lots of oil sitting round where glowplug 5 and 6 are??

BTW all the glowplugs on opposite side 1,2,3 where all clean and dry

chsu74

Injector seal leaking? If so, then you are very lucky to catch it at beginning of black death.

PSDCampervan

5 & 6 overfuel for regens but if interrupted or shutdown before complete maybe surplus vaporizes into goo that builds up on cylinders, valves, & glowplugs?

piuric

Be careful with those torques, I am finishing this job and broke one T45 bolt when trying to torque to 50NM. It is an M8 and 50NM is too much for this bolt.

I have found some material stating that for Stage 1= 20NM and Stage 2= 60gredrees.

Turbocharger Number Designation Engine 642
BA09.40-P-1007-01K Screw/bolt, exhaust collector pipe support brace to cylinder crankcase Nm 20
BA09.40-P-1009-01K Screw/bolt, turbocharger to charge air manifold Nm 9
BA09.40-P-1010-01K Fit bolt, turbocharger to oil supply connection fitting Stage 1 Nm 20, Stage 2 ° 60
ENGINES 642 in MODEL 164
BA09.40-P-1011-01K Screw/bolt, turbocharger to exhaust collector pipe Stage 1 Nm 20,Stage 2 ° 90
BA09.40-P-1012-01K Exhaust line to turbocharger Nm 20
BA09.40-P-1013-01K Screw/bolt, coolant line to turbocharger/ Nm 9.

ofpoets

Just about to dive into this myself - would anyone happen to have the full torque settings for doing all this please ? ML320 W164 (2006)

Apologies if I've missed a post listing them !


Thanks

Lee

piuric

It took me 30hours to do it.

Please visit this post, it has a lot of useful pdfs...

https://mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w...ler-seals.html

Good luck!

ofpoets

Thanks for that - much appreciated

Yeah it looks quite a task. I'm expecting it to take me 2 full working days or more. I don't want to hang it out too long or I'll forget how all the bolts go back ! (I'm actually putting them back in their holes as I go so in theory it shouldn't be too bad and save time on reassembly)

Done part of it today until daylight ran out. 7am start tomorrow to hopefully get a good full day.

I'll need all the luck I can get so cheers !

All the best

piuric

And do not forget to mark the positions of the fuel nuts so you can torque them to the same position or you will need a special tool to torque.
I manage to do it removing only the passenger side fuel rail...

Feri1223

Hi there!

I'm about to help out a friend with this job. Any indication would be greatly appreciated. The PDF file, if you could please send it to me, would be fantastic as well.
Niw, I'm at the research level. I'm trying to get as much info as possible. Trying to figure out what o-rings and gaskets are necessary...
Anyhow, thank you for your post, it's really great for all of us to be able to communicate and help eachother.
Maybe it is too late, but I heard about oven cleaner being really good for carbon build up...
Thank you.
Happy 2020!