2006-2012 W164 - Successful Front Differential Rebuild
07-01-2016, 06:38 PM
#26
Junior Member
Front wheel bearing and retaining nut torque
Would you by any chance know the proper torque for the front wheel hub nut and could you provide it to me if you do?
Pre load and final torque values would be appreciated
Thank you
Thank you
Pre load and final torque values would be appreciated
Thank you
Thank you
Gentlemen!
I have successfully rebuilt my 2006 ML500 front differential and would like to share my experience with you!
I am a licensed/certified mechanic with experience in rebuilding diffs. I must say that doing this job is easy and any qualified/experienced mechanic should be able to handle it with ease. It would be a difficult task for a DIY’er, but not impossible.
Tools required:
Cause of Failure:
In my personal professional opinion the cause of pre-mature failure is due to three reasons:
Original OEM Set: Original OEM Timken KLM503349/KLM503311 Bearing Set Made in Poland
Hope this helps someone out there.
Cheers!
I have successfully rebuilt my 2006 ML500 front differential and would like to share my experience with you!
I am a licensed/certified mechanic with experience in rebuilding diffs. I must say that doing this job is easy and any qualified/experienced mechanic should be able to handle it with ease. It would be a difficult task for a DIY’er, but not impossible.
Tools required:
- 36mm impact socket for spindle nuts
- 32mm impact socket for diff pinion nut
- Torx bit for front drive shaft bolt
- Assorted wrenches and socets
- 12 ton shop press
- Oxy-Acetylene torch (or other adequate heat source)
- Air hammer
- Compressor and Impact Wrench
- Torque Wrench - Click type ft/lbs and analog needle type for checking bearing preload.
- Locktite Blue
- Locktite Bearing Retaining Compound for Press-Fit Bearings
- Locktite Bearing Retaining Compound for Loose-Fit Bearings
- Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner or Methylhydite
- Prussian Blue
- Be sure to use bearing adhesive on bearing and races. Do not get it on the rollers or moving parts
- Be sure to use Locktite blue thread locking compound on all bolts and nuts
- Lift front of vehicle and place on jack stands
- Remove front drive shafts (both upper and lower ball joints will need to be disconnected – be careful not to damage wires and brake hoses)
- Front CV shafts are pressed/seized into hubs, need to press/hammer out (be careful not to damage front wheel bearings)
- Undo 3 differential support bots/nuts
- Remove Differential
- Be sure to clean all parts extremely well prior to assembly!
- Remove right side CV Shaft support tube bolts (2 of them – 16mm or 5/8” Head)
- Remove 4 carrier support bolts in cross pattern
- Remove Differential housing bolts (inverted torx)
- Remove Differential cover and support tube
- Remove carrier bearing shims and mark their location – do not mess up their location as this will cause the diff to fail after re-assembly if you put them in the wrong spot
- Break apart bearing roller cages and press the bearings off the carrier and press on the new bearings
- Remove pinion nut and press out pinion
- Remove Oil Seal (should come out by hand, be careful not to damage unless replacing)
- Break apart bearing cages and press out bearings from housing and off the pinion, noting location of any shims – VERY IMPORTANT
- Press new bearings into housing and onto pinion.
- Press pinion into housing and re-install seal.
- Tighten Pinion nut and check pre-load of pinion bearings. If bearings are too tight, remove crush collar, stretch and re-assemble until proper pre-load is achieved.
- Re-install carrier into housing with new bearing races and old shims and check contact pattern with Prussian Blue or other differential dye.
- If all is good, re-install support tube and hand tighten the bolts, re-install cover and tighten carrier bearing bolts in 3-4 steps. I tightened mine to abt 25ft/lbs on first step, then tightened the carrier bolts to 80-90ft/lbs in four steps, and then re-torqued the tube bolts to 80-90 ft/lbs in additional 3 steps.
- Tighten the cover bolts to abt 25-30ft/lbs (be careful not to stip the threads).
- You’re done!
Cause of Failure:
In my personal professional opinion the cause of pre-mature failure is due to three reasons:
- The carrier bearings (which were damaged the worst) are a Light-to-Medium Duty Bearing – thus the pre-fix on the part number – LM/KLM
- Poor lubrication passage design in the housing
- Not enough oil in the diff (I put about 1.5L of oil into my diff when it was full at 0.9L) – You don’t want to grossly overfill the diff, but the extra pint will go a long way to keep those bearings lubricated, especially in cold climates).
Original OEM Set: Original OEM Timken KLM503349/KLM503311 Bearing Set Made in Poland
Hope this helps someone out there.
Cheers!
07-01-2016, 07:25 PM
#27
Front axle nut torque
I don't know the torque value or the pre-load of what?
This I do know. I had to use a 3/4" drive breaker bar with a four foot piece of pipe on the end for more leverage to remove the nut.
When I retightened the nut I used the same device and cranked on it as hard as I could, i.e all of my weight and might and called it good. I'm not sure what you mean by pre-load. If you mean pinion bearing nut pre-load I didn'the R&R the pinion bearings because the originals were silky smooth.
This I do know. I had to use a 3/4" drive breaker bar with a four foot piece of pipe on the end for more leverage to remove the nut.
When I retightened the nut I used the same device and cranked on it as hard as I could, i.e all of my weight and might and called it good. I'm not sure what you mean by pre-load. If you mean pinion bearing nut pre-load I didn'the R&R the pinion bearings because the originals were silky smooth.
09-08-2016, 05:44 PM
#28
Member
Wheel bearing for W164
Replaced the front right wheel bearing on 2008 ML 320 CDI. Front and rear bearings on the W164 are the same.
The original factory fitted bearing was an NTN bearing.
Bearing dimensions: 90 mm OD x 54 mm ID x 50 mm Length. One side of the bearing is magnetized for the ABS pick up. This is the side of the bearing with the visible rubber seal and the bearing must be installed with this side leading.
The original factory fitted bearing was an NTN bearing.
Bearing dimensions: 90 mm OD x 54 mm ID x 50 mm Length. One side of the bearing is magnetized for the ABS pick up. This is the side of the bearing with the visible rubber seal and the bearing must be installed with this side leading.
Last edited by 2008 ML 320 CDI; 09-08-2016 at 05:59 PM.
10-08-2016, 02:53 PM
#29
Member
Purchase
10-08-2016, 03:03 PM
#30
Member
Bearing purchase
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Unfortunately there is a dishonest person on this forum who sells bearings to unsuspecting, trusting people on eBay. I must warn you about this person and provide everyone here with proof to back my words!
So here it goes:
His handle on MBWorld.org is lasicm. On eBay his user name is also lasicm. He was recently banned from Benzworld.org where his handle was mostar1. He was banned for harassing members, including filling my thread with garbage rants about how his USA Timken bearings are real and mine are fake. Since he was banned from Benzworld, he has taken the fight here, where he continues badmouthing me. He has gone as far as stealing the procedure I wrote and published on Benzworld almost a year ago and posted it here telling everyone that he wrote it and that I’m the copy-cat. He has copied it with spelling errors and all!! [BTW Dan, that’s not how you spell Methyl Hydite!] His real name is Dan and he is from Houston, TX.
He found a bearings supplier in China who manufactures these hard to find bearings for him and sells them on eBay as the real thing. He used to tell everyone that the bearings he sells are Made in USA (see a photo below of his old eBay listing). Now he tells everyone that they are made in France, which is a lie. TheseKLM503349/11 bearings are only made in Poland.
You should never mix and match bearing sets! Furthermore, from the information I have, the KLM503349 cannot be bought separate from the KLM503311. So where this guy is getting them separately, I don't know. China? For sure! There is a good chance that these bearings will fail due to the fact that they are assembled from odds and ends that came from different factories. Stay safe and buy the OEM ones.
His KLM503311 race (or bearing cup) looks to be the only authentic Polish made Timken, but the bearing cone he is putting in with it is 150% a replica.
Please see the picture below which explains how to tell areal bearing from a fake.
I sell the genuine Timken Poland Bearings in a set I put together along with Genuine USA Made NTN bearings. You can find this set here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2006-12-Mercedes-ML-W164-Front-Differential-Bearings-Hard-To-Find-Not-Sold-in-US-/121224489131?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &hash=item1c398ae8ab
The genuine bearings that are guaranteed to last at least as long as the original ones (so approx 100,000miles) if assembled correctly, meanwhile Dan is charging $320 for a set of bearings made in China! Which one wouldyou put in your vehicle? I think we allknow the answer.
If you are looking for instructions, specs, torque specs,etc., I've written and posted a procedure on how to rebuild a differential onthe W164, X164, and W251. You can find the procedure here: https://mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w164/522199-2006-2012-w164-successful-front-differential-rebuild.html#post5859305
In that same thread, I’ve posted an excerpt from a post published by a retired bearing failure analysis engineer on another forum. There you can find more evidence on how to tell a real bearing from a fake and that Lacism’s bearings are fake.
Due to forum rules, I’m not allowed to post links to other forums, but if you need more info, just look up my threads on here as well as Benzworld.
As for lasicm’s claim that he wrote the procedure - again, just go to the other forum and look at the date of when it was first published by me – February 22, 2013. I have thesame handle there, if anyone is interested.
Cheers to everyone and I hope that my rebuild procedure helps someone out there as well as this article helps steer someone clear of Lasicm’s bearings, because they will fail.
I am a licensed and certified mechanic. I wrote and published the procedure after rebuilding my own ML500’s front diff with almost the same cheap bearings I sell on eBay. It’s been good now for almost a year, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me and I will be glad to help.
Good luck to all and god bless.
Unfortunately there is a dishonest person on this forum who sells bearings to unsuspecting, trusting people on eBay. I must warn you about this person and provide everyone here with proof to back my words!
So here it goes:
His handle on MBWorld.org is lasicm. On eBay his user name is also lasicm. He was recently banned from Benzworld.org where his handle was mostar1. He was banned for harassing members, including filling my thread with garbage rants about how his USA Timken bearings are real and mine are fake. Since he was banned from Benzworld, he has taken the fight here, where he continues badmouthing me. He has gone as far as stealing the procedure I wrote and published on Benzworld almost a year ago and posted it here telling everyone that he wrote it and that I’m the copy-cat. He has copied it with spelling errors and all!! [BTW Dan, that’s not how you spell Methyl Hydite!] His real name is Dan and he is from Houston, TX.
He found a bearings supplier in China who manufactures these hard to find bearings for him and sells them on eBay as the real thing. He used to tell everyone that the bearings he sells are Made in USA (see a photo below of his old eBay listing). Now he tells everyone that they are made in France, which is a lie. TheseKLM503349/11 bearings are only made in Poland.
You should never mix and match bearing sets! Furthermore, from the information I have, the KLM503349 cannot be bought separate from the KLM503311. So where this guy is getting them separately, I don't know. China? For sure! There is a good chance that these bearings will fail due to the fact that they are assembled from odds and ends that came from different factories. Stay safe and buy the OEM ones.
His KLM503311 race (or bearing cup) looks to be the only authentic Polish made Timken, but the bearing cone he is putting in with it is 150% a replica.
Please see the picture below which explains how to tell areal bearing from a fake.
I sell the genuine Timken Poland Bearings in a set I put together along with Genuine USA Made NTN bearings. You can find this set here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2006-12-Mercedes-ML-W164-Front-Differential-Bearings-Hard-To-Find-Not-Sold-in-US-/121224489131?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &hash=item1c398ae8ab
The genuine bearings that are guaranteed to last at least as long as the original ones (so approx 100,000miles) if assembled correctly, meanwhile Dan is charging $320 for a set of bearings made in China! Which one wouldyou put in your vehicle? I think we allknow the answer.
If you are looking for instructions, specs, torque specs,etc., I've written and posted a procedure on how to rebuild a differential onthe W164, X164, and W251. You can find the procedure here: https://mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w164/522199-2006-2012-w164-successful-front-differential-rebuild.html#post5859305
In that same thread, I’ve posted an excerpt from a post published by a retired bearing failure analysis engineer on another forum. There you can find more evidence on how to tell a real bearing from a fake and that Lacism’s bearings are fake.
Due to forum rules, I’m not allowed to post links to other forums, but if you need more info, just look up my threads on here as well as Benzworld.
As for lasicm’s claim that he wrote the procedure - again, just go to the other forum and look at the date of when it was first published by me – February 22, 2013. I have thesame handle there, if anyone is interested.
Cheers to everyone and I hope that my rebuild procedure helps someone out there as well as this article helps steer someone clear of Lasicm’s bearings, because they will fail.
I am a licensed and certified mechanic. I wrote and published the procedure after rebuilding my own ML500’s front diff with almost the same cheap bearings I sell on eBay. It’s been good now for almost a year, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me and I will be glad to help.
Good luck to all and god bless.
10-09-2016, 08:14 AM
#32
Member
Im confident they will work & last a long time if my mechanic did a good job. Was his first rebuild. His major experience & accreditation is with VW, Audi, BMW. He has the highest accreditation in those brands.
10-09-2016, 12:14 PM
#33
straight forward mechanics...no rocket science...should be no problem.
10-09-2016, 02:57 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
Spartydano,
While NewMLGuy started out being pretty helpful, with his write up etc.
he turned to attacking his competitors, with bogus accusations, later proven to be all completely false.
A similar thread on benzworld.org had most of the lies and imflammatory statements removed,
and he was eventually made to admit that the other sellers,
benzexpert (me) and 'lacism' (now something else), were both selling genuine products,
since he had them verified by his sources at the manufacturers, what a laugh,
As though he has some special sources at the factory since he sells like 5 sets a year or something.
Seriously, just checked his stats on ebay, hasn't sold a complete set since Nov. 2015 and prior to that,
Apr. 2015.
See here on post #74 where he is finally forced to admit that other people's bearings are not fake,
but still insists that the one's made in USA don't have USA stamped on them, not true.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w164...rential-8.html
His ongoing complaints about "Chinese" made bearings is quite hilarious since he's the only one selling Chinese bearings,
"EQA" brand on ebay. He used to be upfront about the origin of these bearings,
he now just says they are "high quality" in his ebay auction.
Complaints about the dishonesty of his claims on benzworld,
resulted in most of his posts and the arguing between the parties to be removed,
though they have not been removed here or corrected.
He even went so far as to say that the cardboard boxes,
the big one's with Timken stamped on them, that come from the factory were fake, he'll say anything!
He then started selling the LM KLM combination himself, (something he had said wasn't possible) with of course has Canada stamped on the bearings.
All Timken bearings have the country of origin stamped on them. Period.
I wrote him on ebay and asked why his bearings had Canada stamped on them since according to him,
none of the REAL bearings have the country stamped on them,
but they ALL have the country stamped on them....see his response.
It's not nice.
While NewMLGuy started out being pretty helpful, with his write up etc.
he turned to attacking his competitors, with bogus accusations, later proven to be all completely false.
A similar thread on benzworld.org had most of the lies and imflammatory statements removed,
and he was eventually made to admit that the other sellers,
benzexpert (me) and 'lacism' (now something else), were both selling genuine products,
since he had them verified by his sources at the manufacturers, what a laugh,
As though he has some special sources at the factory since he sells like 5 sets a year or something.
Seriously, just checked his stats on ebay, hasn't sold a complete set since Nov. 2015 and prior to that,
Apr. 2015.
See here on post #74 where he is finally forced to admit that other people's bearings are not fake,
but still insists that the one's made in USA don't have USA stamped on them, not true.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w164...rential-8.html
His ongoing complaints about "Chinese" made bearings is quite hilarious since he's the only one selling Chinese bearings,
"EQA" brand on ebay. He used to be upfront about the origin of these bearings,
he now just says they are "high quality" in his ebay auction.
Complaints about the dishonesty of his claims on benzworld,
resulted in most of his posts and the arguing between the parties to be removed,
though they have not been removed here or corrected.
He even went so far as to say that the cardboard boxes,
the big one's with Timken stamped on them, that come from the factory were fake, he'll say anything!
He then started selling the LM KLM combination himself, (something he had said wasn't possible) with of course has Canada stamped on the bearings.
All Timken bearings have the country of origin stamped on them. Period.
I wrote him on ebay and asked why his bearings had Canada stamped on them since according to him,
none of the REAL bearings have the country stamped on them,
but they ALL have the country stamped on them....see his response.
It's not nice.
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 10-10-2016 at 03:02 PM.
10-09-2016, 03:06 PM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
but you purchased from mercbenzspecialist, lacism or whatever he's calling himself, not benzexpert (me), so I can't really say.
Also that "Ladies and Gentlemen" tirade was directed at mercbenz lacism,
not me, since I wasn't selling bearings at the time it was published,
but it's been proven to be entirely BS by his own (forced) admission after I complained to the mods on benzworld.
The guy that wrote it goes by equipmentauthority on ebay and sells vacuum cleaner parts.
The reason he says these things is to attempt to get people to pay $309 for something others sell for $100 less,
but he hasn't sold a set in a year.
The thing that differentiates me from these guys is that I've been on the forum for 14+ years,
providing help to users, answering questions, being part of an online community, and writing DIY's at no financial benefit,
vs the other guys who's posts are wholly devoted to selling bearings and nothing else.
I got into it when my 2006 ML needed bearings, I didn't feel comfortable buying from either of those guys,
sourced my own, and began offering GENUINE bearing products at reduced prices.
Incidentally we have over 60K miles since the bearing replacement and all is well, same ones I sell.
My entry into the fray also resulted in the prices going down considerably, and made life easier for buyers
by adding the MB seals and INA axle shaft bearing to create a complete kit.
And not to mention I've had a 100% positive feedback on ebay since 1999.
Happy Motoring!
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 10-10-2016 at 03:09 PM.
