beemaze

Interesting opinion since half of Porsche sales in the U.S. (if not worldwide) are Cayennes, Porsche has made record profit since the intro. of the Cayenne, and continues to be an independent car company as a result.

Nevada Jack

Hey Fastbuck...that poster above you (a2gtinut) posted a similar useless comment on the GST R Class forum about the R Class. I don't understand why they even post if all they can do is offer troll posts.

beemaze

I've owned several Mercedes since the 80's including a 1976 450 SEL, 1984 (?) 300 TD wagon, 1987 300E, 1988 560 SEL (still in the family), 1994 C280, 1996 S500's/SL500 to the current MY benzes listed in my sig. We don't abuse our cars, or niggle about every little thing that goes wrong.

Our May build 2000 ML 430 has been enjoyable in terms of it's truck-like abilities, ease of driving, and great engine. The kids enjoy it ever since we installed the DVD player and headrests with monitors.

However, it's been the least reliable Benz we've ever had to date. Talk about alot of wear and tear!! Especially when it comes to brakes and rotors which weren't covered by the warranty.

At 286 miles, we had the SRS control unit, left rear airbag and wiring harness replaced because the SRS light went on and wouldn't go off. Obviously there was a short in the system. That was disheartening to say the least and may have been a sign of things to come.

9 months and 12,500 miles later, both side mirrors would fold in while driving, and rear brake pads replaced

At 20k miles, front brake pads and rotors replaced; entire stereo head unit and navigation replaced secondary to nonfunction

At 24k miles, rear brake pads and rotors replaced

At 33k miles, rear pads and rotors replaced

At 35k miles, my wife lost her power steering completely, almost hitting another car. The PS hose came loose. This eventually became part of a recall campaign. (Would have been too late if something bad happened)

At 38k miles, front pads and rotors replaced; auxiliary engine cooling fan replaced

At 48k miles, rear pads and rotors replaced; catalytic converter replaced as it basically partially fell off - great scene driving the ML into the dealer while everbody saw/heard part of the exhaust system scraping the asphalt

at 50k miles, fuse box blower motor replaced, another leaky power steering hose replaced

Fortunately, I bought the extended warranty in the beginning:

at 55k miles, front and rear pads and rotors replaced

at 59k miles, CEL went on - Air mass sensor replaced, and again lost power steering - power steering assembly replaced as well as engine mounts

at 65k miles, CEL went on again - O2 sensor replaced, and again lost power steering - power steering pump replaced as well as radiator

at 67k miles, front and rear pads and rotors replaced

Basically, the front brakes/rotors last one year; and the rears last less than that. Not to mention the various interior trim pieces that fell off or cracked over the past 4.5 years

Sorry, but the ML has had alot of additional cost I didn't factor in the beginning. Yea, I was wise enough to buy the extended warranty from the get go which has paid for itself by covering most of the additional repairs after 50k miles. But unless they can prove that the W164 won't need major repairs on the 1st year and wear the brakes and power steering on a regular basis, I'd stay far away from the ML. All of the other models I trust, just not that ML.

If you do buy, get a good discount and get that extended warranty - you will likely need it....

Sincity

Beemaze:

I had about $14.5k in warranty claims the 5 years I owned it with only 66k miles. Good thing I bought the extra 1 year extended warranty! This does not include the numerous brake/rotor replacement.

beemaze

Sincity,

Fortunately, I purchased the full 4 year warranty/ 100k miles as my wife uses the ML430 as her daily driver. At the time of purchase, I was able to talk the price down on the 4 year down to price of the 2 year, which at the time was around $2k. Mercedes no longer offers extended warranties past 3 years, I believe.

Sincity

Makes you wonder why they no longer offer warranties past 3 years??? I wished I knew that the extended warranty was negotiable. That $2k spent could have made me keep the vehicle to 4 yrs or 100k.

beemaze

Mercedes got "smart" and figured out maybe they were losing money on all the extended warranty repairs

As for negotiating the extended warranty, that's basically how we ended up writing up the deal.

As an aside, did I mention I purchased the ML from Fletcher Jones in Las Vegas (where we lived at the time)? They were a pain in the **** when it came to dealing on the ML back in June 2000. I knew when I was looking at the ML that the build quality was notorious, but at the time it was what I could afford and what my wife liked, so I talked them down as far as they could tolerate me.

vsamak

that's not true on the extended warranty. they are available from the dealers that go beyond the original 4 year/40k mi. In fact, I'm getting it if I decide to keep my current 2002 ML500 as it is in the 3rd year now.

beemaze

???

We're kind if hijacking this thread here, but clearly Sincity and I purchased EXTENDED warranties and that's what we've been talking about. No one here said you can't purchase an extended warranty.....which I strongly advise on the M-class.

Sincity

Beemaze: I hate dealing with Fletcher Jones. In '99, they wouldn't budge on price, so I ended up going to Walters in Riverside and bought a '99 C230 and a few months later a '99 ML320. They lost 2 sales. In '04 I ended up buying my C320 at Fletcher since the tax on trade-in credit offset any difference by going out of state. I did not purchase an extended warranty figuring the current generation C-Class is 4 years old.

a2gtinut

Just look what Beemaze went thru with his ML.
I know this industry (first hand) and Germans are in big trouble. Just go to any Lexus dealer and tell me how you are treated when your car needs anykind of repair if any.
Most of Benz dealers have about 1 month waiting list to get car serviced.
BTW. Tell me who is on the top of JD Power list or how about Consumer Report?

Nevada Jack

The early ML's had problems as did some of the 2003 E320's...that is no big secret.

I don't have to wait a month for service and the wait usually depends on the type of service needed. I have no complaints with Fletcher Jones service department...the sales department is another story. I have yet to buy a car from them. My SA is as knowledgeable as they come and he is always on top of things and calls me...I have yet to call him to check on anything.

As far as the JD Powers list it covers the early E problems, not the quality of the later builds. Consumer reports is less reliable but again they refer to early builds. The recent recall is a positive move to correct poor component installs and taken volutarily.

You fail to mention the E as the safest car in the crash testing. From my standpoint I would rather be in a MB with some electronic glitches but knowing I am driving the safest car in the industry. I can always call MB for Road Service but if you are spread all over the pavement in some less than safe car it becomes a little more difficult to fix the problem.

If you think the German car industry is in trouble...what does that say for Ford and GM. The Japanese build nice cars but they look like other makers cars and lack personality. There is nothing like the ride and feel of a MB!

beemaze

I agree with you Nevada Jack,

With the exception of my experience with the ML-class, I still like the Mercedes marque.

Obtaining a timely service appointment has never been a problem, and most of the SA's I've dealt with are excellent.

These are some of the safest vehicles on the road compared with their Japanese counterparts in general.

Despite my negative experience with the ML's yearly brake repairs, I still purchased a C55 early this year for it's luxury, overall appearance, and driving experience.

Regardless of how they perform in surveys and ratings, Mercedes-Benz is here to stay.

Sincity

Nevadajack:

Who do you deal with in Service? I have been dealing with J.P. for the past 6 years.

Nevada Jack

Since the new place opened I have been dealing with Mark Adams. My prior SA either quit or left the LV scene.

anthonymoody

While this has been mentioned a couple times in the thread, I'm shocked there's not more focus here on the 1st model-year issue. Just about every marque on the road is generally plagued with niggling (and sometimes large) problems in the first year or two after release. Quite often the first refresh at year 3 consists primarily of fixing all the stuff that went wrong with the first go round.

This is not remotely limited to MB though. And of course there are exceptions - but they generally prove the rule.

On the other hand (and conversely), an EOL 2005 M class will almost certainly be the highest average quality ML year ever and will with equal certainty be of higher average quailty than the 2006 model year. After all, the 2005 model year has many years of experience and quality improvements built into it (as does any EOL car model).

I'm not advocating that the original poster get a 2005 ML per se (though I think it's a fine time to get one on the super cheap) - I just think one should be realistic about what we're talking about: a technology laden brand new model vehicle. ALL such things are prone to problems in years 1 and 2.

So I wouldn't shy away from the '06 because of any blanket statements about ML quality in general. After all, ML quality has been on a steady climb since year 1 and the 2005 model should be its highest ever. But I might shy away from it b/c it's year one - but to be clear I'd make that statement about any mfr's year 1 models, Lexus included.

To echo someone from earlier - if you like to be 1st on the block with a new toy, then by all means get it. If you get a great copy of it, you won't have any problems. If you get a problematic one, maybe it won't bother you as much b/c you get to show off your new toy in general. However, recognize that the chances of having issues are higher simply b/c it's model year 1. If that bothers you, stay away.

Sorry for the ramble.

TM

TNblkc230wz

My 03 C320 has been near flawless. A couple of minor rattles and trim items fixed under warranty. No, there are no rattles and I'm one of those hard drivers. I use the upgraded brakes and sway bars.

You may want to avoid the first six to 12 months of production as they tend to have more issues. Personnally I've had very good luck with my two newer models