Oneness

I agree that Meridian charges a fortune for their high end systems, but one doesn't need expensive cables for Meridian, They took that mentality and threw out the window because they keep everything in the digital domain until the last 6 inches. they also take out the expensive Pre amp because they are doing that digitally. yeah, their reference systems are expensive, but they designed to be configured a bunch of different ways and have card slots to change the configuration and they are constantly coming out with new cards. now, one of the high costs for their $3,000 boom box is the cabinet. It is a special barium loaded composite created by Ferrari and everyone knows that when Ferrari gets involved with creating a composite material, it is going to be expensive. they also had to custom design the sub woofer and since they don't make these things by the hundreds of thousands, it takes a while to recoup their money. Meridian cabinets, just like high end B&W's, Wilson Audio, MBL, Goldmund, etc., are probably the most expensive part of the system due to bracing techniques, materials, labor costs, etc. In Meridian's car audio system, there are no cabinets, so that will cut costs when compared to other Meridian products. speaker placement, low frequencies aren't direct, they can be put anywhere and still sound good. Again, I am just getting involved with dealing with the car audio dilemma, but I assure you, H/K is not using high quantity components in their power amps which is going to hinder sound quality and reliability. Mark Levinson has had lots of driver and amp problems with their system and they are the high end brand that Harmon owns and they usually only make electronics and not speakers. The Mark Levinsons are supposed to sound really good and that comes from someone that I know is a Meridian HT owner, so I know they understand the meridian way of doing thing. now, the Meridian car system isn't doing everything their high reference systems are doing, but they are doing much of it, just at a lower price point. the diffence is that they'll still retain the majority of sound quality without having to spend tons of money reducing every ounce of jitter. It is kind of saying that the AMG is similar to the race version of what Mercedes puts on the track, but it isn't identical therefor costing a lot less money. they are just leveraging what they learn and making it a street version.

Now, I have absolutely no idea how much The consumer is actually being charged for either system from Meridian on these evoques. After doing more research, the 380 watt system doesn't do surround, but they add that and more amps and more speakers in the 825 system along with Trifield, and other "modes". If one is spending $50k or more in a car, and plan on driving a lot and spend a lot of time listening to music, what would I pay for a system? Obviously the less the better, but I would have a limitation just like most people. I wouldn't have a problem having $3 to $5K of the money I spend on the car going to a nice sound system. if it is Meridian, I would automatically choose Meridian because they don't every put cheap components in ANY of their products. they use high quality PC boards, cap, transformers, chips, etc. Harmon Kardon's home theater equipment uses cheap drivers, cheap components and that's why their top of the line receiver only costs $1,100 retail list price. it is just another $1,000 reciever that probably sounds just a good/bad as anything else in that price range coming from Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, etc.

the bottom line is that the audiophile community praises what Meridian is and has been doing and some of their products simply sound really good and compete with products costing even more that take up more room. they things that Meridian does really well is low level detail, imaging, eliminate coloration, no distortion at any level, and they strive for "sonic signature" throughout their entire product line. if you listen to other mfg. the low end products don't always sound like thieir high end products in many cases.

Either way, for Land Rover to sell a car with Meridian and be able to keep the price below $60K is pretty amazing. I am surprised they could do it knowing what Meridian normally charges. FYI, B&O system in the Audi A8 is $6300 and they aren't bundling it in with other options. for some, they will gladly pay that much for a car system.

I would put a limit on car audio system well under $10K because I think it is ridiculous to spend more than that on a car system. but, I drive or least used to drive more than the average driver and I really like to listen to music rather than the radio, which I rarely listen to. I used to take drives on a regular basis that would last 2 to 3 hours and having a nice system on the freeway is what keep my sanity and having a great sounding system makes it that much better.

Oneness

the "boom box" is made from a barium loaded composite developed by Ferrari and NOT plastic like what everyone else uses, so that is a part of the cost, they also use expensive leather or in the F80 they used Ferrari paint finishes, because they have to worry about esthetics for the market they are going after. If you think people that buy it are insane, go to the Meridian dealer and listen to it. You'll probably end up loving it and maybe thinking about which credit card your going to put it on.

Oneness

Hotel California is NOT what the audiophiles would be a reference recording but a decently recorded rock album. Dolby's commercial processors are meant for commercial applications, Meridian is going for audiophiles. However, Meridian had one of the best mastering converters in the beginning of digital recordings and that's part of their history. meridian also works with Dolby with their efforts in the development of MLP, so Dolby Labs is a close partner of Meridian. also, there are other high end processors in the recording industry like Weiss, Lavry, DAD and a few others, but they are designed for those applications and may not make sense to use in the home, even though you probably could. Some commercial studios are stupid, IMO, to let monitors made by Yamaha that cost $200 a pair using a $1,000 power amp connecting to a million dollar console with expensive microphones. I have spent time in various recording studios and a lot of recordings in the pop/rock world are just plain badly mixed. Some are quite goods but the majority are horrible and what Meridian has been doing to is implementing things to actually clean them up through Apodising filters, expensive buffering to eliminate jitter, expensive DACs, and other things that cause badly mixed or mastered recordings. if one even mixes or tracks and listens to a recording on anything other than high end playback systems, I would question whether the engineer or producer understands what they are doing. If I owned a recording studio I would never allow NS-10's in the control room and not deal with those that demanded to use them. It only gives someone a reference point of bad audio.

Oneness

OK, so go ahead and put out 16 bit copies of compressed audio and think that is high end running through some of the cheapest components and thinking that is audiophile level. mark Levinson went down hill when Harmon bought them out and I am sure they cut corners on the Lexus systems even though it sounds goods they have had problems with blown speakers and amps. Maybe that stuff came from Harmon since Mark Levinson usually designs Class A amps and doesn't do speaker systems for that type of market.

I am sorry that you don't know much about Meridian and DSP speaker technology. they don't require expensive cabling, and they bring what they think is required for a car audio system that I obviously less than $10,000. well, I prefer to not have cheap electronics in the systems I purchase and H/K uses cheap electronics, they can't avoid it in a system sold at that price point.

Oneness

here is an review of the F80, which is the same product as the M80 by Stereophile. he only difference is that one has Ferrari paint job and the other uses high quality leather for esthetics only, http://www.stereophile.com/fmtuners/408mer/index.html

also, I am sure the H/K sounds good to your ears, but I would probably hear a lot of it's problems and I am wondering if it is that good, then why is Mercedes going to be offering a $6K+ B&O system on their AMG lines? I just question the reliability and know that Meridian won't put crap on the market.

In addition, the problems i've heard about the Mark Levinson system makes me a little nervous since Mark Levinson system in Lexus's is pretty similar since the are owned by H/K, they are using Logic7 which is Lexicon's algorithms which do pretty much the same thing as Meridian's Trifield, I am just used to Meridian's way of doing things and I know H/K uses less expensive everything, which effects the sound and reliability.

either way, I am planning on getting a Mercedes Benz C350 and it comes stock with the H/K system, so I don 't have a choice unless I pay more for an AMG with the B&O system or another brand car with another brand system. Either way, for the money Meridian is charging on their system, I think I would prefer buying something I know has better components and know that Trifield is a really good algorithm for taking 2channel music and transforming into 5.1 or 7.1 depending on the system. I'm hoping Mercedes changes over to Meridian once they realize how good their products are.

rush1169

My bad.

Oneness

For what?

MD Boy

Hey guys, didn't mean to start a which sound system is better battle for MB.

I do appreciate all the useful feedback. Thank you for taking the time to post your opinions.

We're definitely going for the H/K in the P2. Can't wait to put it through the ringer when our ML finally gets here.

Thanks again.

Oneness

Understood. I think it is important for all consumers to at least be aware of what is out there, maybe learn what others are doing and sound comparisons because it is an expensive propostition for consumers to pay for. sometimes, we are forced into one brand or another and after listening to what is out there, I think Mercedes to listen to feedback on what WE, the customer, want and pay for. Some put greater importance on the sound system and they have come a long way over the past 30 years. I personally wish they would work with a few different companies and just offer different systems and not bundle them in so we know what we are paying for and have a choice depending on our budget and what sounds best to our ears. A lot of these systems are very similar in a lot of ways, slightly different speaker configuration, but there are a lot of similarities, but there is a differences that the average consumer is oblivious to or marketed to confuse people. Some companies have more hype than others. the B word comes to mind the most. Either way, I think it would be nice to give the consumer options, different price points and not bundle this pricey option with other extras. A lot of these companies are actually sticking similar sized drivers in similar positions. It would be interesting if they standardized on locations and sized drivers they can put in and let those that want to adapt their technology to offer their systems and let the consumer choose based on their budget and what they want out of a system.

Oneness

here is a little trivia. In 2007, there was an article that mentioned that Lexus was going to partner with Pioneer and Harmon's Mark Levinson for their car stereo. You know who owns Pioneer? Sharp. I wonder how much is actually Mark Levinson's contribution. I know they usually only make high end home stereo/theater electronics.

Oneness

here is some more juicy nuggets. harman bought Becker. Becker mfg. and services the Harmon Kardon system you are talking about, they also service Bose electronics, Mark Levinson, and other stuff for Mercedes, BMW, AUDI, Ferrari. so basically, it is a Becker System with Lexicon's Logic7 Algorithm and Harmon Kardon speakers is what it sounds like.

dougiebear

Martin Logan? built in to gullwing doors? sorry had to join in the fun

Just so ya know I appreciate all the comments I wish I could buy most of you guy's in all the threads a drink but lets try and limit talk about what is now for the most part. Unless we get a true tidbit. YYZ nice to know something new to watch for.

Oneness

it has already been mentioned that Mercedes is going to be using B&O for AMG lineup. Martin Logan speakers present too much problem for car stereo due to the inherent nature of panel style speakers. plus they have a very directional dispersion for the frequencies coming out of the panel itself. that's why they have to have such tall speakers and sometimes very wide panels. Plus, they generally require lots of power. Not conducive for a car IMO. great sound if done properly, but have to also be placed properly within a listening space.

In addition, the lens used on B&O weren't originally their design, it was done by Sausalito Audio Works. So, they actually deserve the credit. Some people in the audiophile community question the usage of this type of reflection of high frequencies. some people don't like it. personally, I haven't listened to them enough and compared to other offerings in the same price catagory, yet. it is just somewhat questionable. for the amont of money they charge, I would choose something else. If given the choice. I actually read some posts by Audi owners on another site that have experienced quality changes between model years and that kind of raises the question of can they keep the same price point and maintain the same level of quality or specs. so that doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

Another company that makes really nice speakers is Adam, but they don't do the electronics in terms of the main control unit.

I just hope that these companies aren't trying to use their name and just push cheap grade electronics because that it what I have seen so far with Bose, and Harmon based offerings, hence the price they are charging. It is difficult to charge $2,000 for a 14 or so speaker system with equal number of amplifiers, surround sound, etc., etc. etc. and them supplying high quality stuff and able to make a profit. it just doesn't make any rational logic that we can get quality electronics and speakers for that cheap.

Oneness

this is just one of many sites I have found discussing various problems associated with the B&O systems in Audi cars and it sounds like you can't crank them up otherwise you'll experience blown drivers, blown amps, rattles, etc.
http://www.audiforum.ca/showthread.php?t=50284
Not good to hear about that, even if they are covered under warranty or not. I don't like having problems with anything. FYI, I had one small problem with my Meridian system, but it was handled in a timely manner, it was taken care of without any hassle and I wasn't even the original owner. Over the 10+ years of ownership, that system performs properly and I have cranked that system to the point where I had to stand literally 35 feet away from it because of the shear loudness they can get and I wasn't even at full volume. the dealer told me that Meridian tests they products to be designed to operate at full volume 24/7 without distortion or blowing things up. obvisouly, some people do mix and match between running Meridian products with analog equipment and yes, there are problems that crop up, but from what I have heard, they usually don't have lots of issues. My personal experience, only one little problem and it was fixed quickly and never had a problem since and I bought my speakers used.

Oneness

I did some more reserch on B&O for those interested. Apparantly, B&O uses their ASX2 power amps on their home systems, and they use the Mobiesound2 amps on their csr stereos both made by a company called ICE power. they have three different grade of power amps they market towards the car market, plus ICE licenses their technology to other car audio mfgs like Pioneer and others, so just be aware of what they are doing, IF you are interested.

Slight correction needed, the car systems use the A series, not the mobilesound2, the home units use the asx2. sorry about that.

Oneness

Interesting press release. it talks about B&W and Harmon International inking a OEM deal for B&W to supply the speakers Harmon doing the electronics with the exception of Jaguar. It mentions that B&W inked a deal with a third party that wasn't mentioned on supplying the electronics for the Jaguar car.

Kind of interesting reading.
http://mobile.twice.com/article/2594...o_OEM_Deal.php

GregW / Oregon

Well, I have B&W Nautilus speakers at home and love them; how the whole partnership thing works out, I don't know. But, I think I echo the sentiment of many members here in saying that if my car audio experience is just "very good", that's alright. I don't need ultimate realism in my car.

Oneness

My take is that some systems, regardless of the brand and cost, have a good enough sound to not be bothersome, some have systems where the tweeter is too harsh because of the sensitivity we have developed. some would rather listen to the sound of the engine. for me, I just want something that sounds good to my ears and some systems I can tolerated but some I can't. I've heard some of those aftermarket installs that they spent tens of thousands of dollars that I thought sounded awful. But again, these systems are getting better and better. for someone with a pair of Nautilus, would think you would be fairly particular as to what you want since your ears are used to good audio. some forms of distortion fatigue my ears and I prefer to stay away from high end distortion.l

Oneness

Ok, here is a scenario, please answer as honestly as possible.

let's say MB had a car that you wanted and the choices were, buying a H/K surround sound system for $2K OR an upgraded surround sound system with B&W drivers and really nice electronics to go with it and it cost $6K. would you pay for the extra or not? BE HONEST knowing what you know about B&W because you have a high end system at home and this car audio system would sound fairly close to your home system.

Bluerum

@oneness,
I suspect u work either for MB market research or are an independent audio dealer drumming up business. But I will humor u.
2-3k is the most I would use do for a manufacturer car audio upgrade on a car under 70k.

Oneness

I don't work for anyone that I would make a dime off any purchases of any car or specific audio system, and I find it funny that some make either false accusations of think less of high quality products. I am a consumer just like anyone and I just think that we should make purchase decisions on whatever we buy and try to purchase things of high quality and enjoy them as long as we can afford them. I also wish to have a choce, especially when it comes to choosing what is a third party product. Just to let you know that i talked to a local car audio installer that does quality work and asked them about improving the stock H/K surround system. What they said was that the systems that are being sold, for the most part in upper end cars are pretty good over all and there isn't that can be done unless they remove everything and start fresh. which is a pain since the product I want isn't sold any other way at this time. now, I hope that automakers can maybe figure out a way to have choices in what is offered. I think it would be great to either have the car without a system and that various brands could be installed OR various brands could be offered at the dealer level so that people that want to spend an extra $2K to probably about $8K on a variety of mfg would be nice to have those choices. Maybe for some, the stock system is fine, for others they want higher quality sound and improved reliability due to higher quality components.

one thing I have realized about these systems is that they sound better if we use CDs and not mp3 or similar compressed file formats.

either way, being a musician, I like to listen to music and having an appreciation for high quality audio, I like to have that in my car, especially during those long drives.

Some people don't place music as major part of my life, some do. I kind of find it sad that people are happy with mediocre sound quality, or mediocre music. And putting people down for enjoying high quality audio doesn't really do anything positive for others.

I wish all it cost was 2 or 3K to get quality audio, but unfortounately these days it costs quite a bit more than that and prices aren't going to go down, especially with the devaluation of the dollar and rising material and labor costs. I remember when Mercedes most expensive sedan cost less than $15K for a 300 SEL 6.3 and gas was $.23 a gallon. Heck, I am sure there are people that will spend $8K on a vacation or worse yet, alcohol or drugs for a year and not seem like there is anything wrong with that.

Oneness

Something to be aware of. After reading various posts on various systems in various cars, there a lot of people out there that are using mp3 files (whether on an iPod, USB stick, cell phone, etc.) that experience poor sound quality when in surround sound mode. Apparantly, these surround sound systems prefer to work better with regular CDs rather than these other file formats, so some people have realized to go to stereo mode with mp3 music files and surround sound mode when playing Redbook CDs. anyone have eperieince with this that can supply additional information?

tjg0024

Just thought I would add my 2 cents in here. I just got my ML back from the shop after having an E class loaner for almost 2 months. My loaner E had P2 & the H/K system. I can tell you from listening to the 2012 E-Class H/K system for that long and then getting back in the 2012 ML H/K the, ML BLOWS THE E AWAY. So much better though the range, fuller more powerful sound, and the bottom end in the ML is way stronger.

300DTurbo

Martin Logan is complete rubbish. The fidelity of those speakers is horrific. You'll get better sound from a set of B.I.C Venturi's from Wal-mart.

Oneness

Just to clarify, were you playing the same music from the same source with the same settings? If you were, then something is wrong if they were the same system.