otagomed

Hi guys.

First of all I'd like to thank you for sharing all the great information on this forum.
I am about to order my ML500 (I'm in Australia) and I would like to ask some questions about Harman Kardon system.

I love listening the music while I'm driving and I don't mind spending some extra money for better sound experience. I currently drive 2010 Audi A4 and I love Bang & Olufsen system on my A4. As some of you probably know Audi A4's B&O is a basic model and it's different from what A8 or Q7 gets.

Anyway I recently had a chance to listen to my friend's 2012 C250 Harman Kardon system and I was very disppointed with the sound quality. It was nowhere near my Audi's.

My questions are...

1. Is 2013 ML500 Harman Kardon system same as C250's?
2. If they are different, can anyone tell me how good ML500's HK system is compared to Audi A4's B&O?

I guess another option for me is ordering B&O for ML500 but it costs close to $10000 here in Aus and my wife will kill me if I buy that!

Anyway thanks in advance for answers!

Benz Werd

Gidday mate, and welcome to the Forum!

In about 3 weeks I'll be able to answer your question as my new W166 ML with HK sound (as part of Entertainment Package EP1) is about to arrive and we also have a '12 C250 with HK in the family.

For now I can tell you that the C-class' HK system isn't quite as powerful as the ML's as it only has 12 speakers with an output of 450 watts, whereas the ML's has 14 speakers, but I'm not sure (yet) how many watts it puts out, perhaps somebody else can answer that part, or your dealer. Can I suggest next time you're at your dealer jump into a new ML with HK sound, assuming they'll have one, and play your favourite CD or track from your MP3 player and compare it to your A4.

I am surprised you found your friend's C250's HK system disappointing as ours is awesome. Certainly as good as, if not better, than my previous W164 ML's HK system. Are you absolutely sure your friend's C250 has HK? You will know by looking at the door speaker covers as there's a 'Harman Kardon' plaque on the front ones. If so, perhaps your friend had his 'logic7 surround' setting turned off then?

Anyway, for now I think you've partly answered your own question. The B&O system is $10,000 here and you said you'd have marital issues if you ordered it. Perhaps consider resale value too, as you'll never get that back. The HK system is only around $1,500, and if it's anything like the W164's it's going to be awesome at that price. I just can't imagine the B&O system could be 'that' much better to justify another $8500 on top of the HK's price. Plus with the B&O system you lose your (space saver) spare tyre as I assume that's where the bigger amps are placed etc.

Also be prepared for at least a 6 month wait after ordering. My dealer told me 3-4 months but it's going to be closer to 7 months when if finally arrives. Good choice on the 500 though, we are a rare breed it seems, as most Aussies tend to opt for the 350 BlueTec. If you read through the forums it appears most of the issues/problems with the MY12 MLs (yours will be & mine is a MY13 model) were in the BlueTecs, but just about every 550 owner is extremely impressed with their car and it's performance. Bear in mind too that the US ML550s aren't anywhere near as optioned up as our 500s are. For example Airmatic isn't standard, nor Bi-xenon lights and the list goes on. A fully loaded 550 in the US is around $80K, whereas mine is around 75% dearer than that. Rip-off much?? But like most of us Aussies we want some things so bad we're prepared to pay the premium.

Happy motoring, and enjoy the forum ... cheers

clk200

Unfortunately sound quality differs even between same brand cars as the acoustics are different. Furthermore, it is very subjective - people like different characteristics, so you should really try it first. I currently have 3 Mercedes, all with HK sound system (CLK, W164 ML and W166ML), as well as access to an S-class with HK system. They all sound different. Sound is best in the MLs, W164 slightly better than W166, but both are quite impressive. CLKs is good, but not exceptional. S-Class is similarly good, but not exceptional which is slightly disappointing given that it has the quietest cabin and is the more up-market of all of them.

McClendons

Very happy with my HK, but does depend on type of music quality. With low def radio, it sounds marginal at best IMO, not smooth at all, low case etc. My wife's car (Lexus Mark Levison SC430) sounds much better. HD radio, the HK sounds good, very comparable to the Lexus. As soon as you go to CD or good MP3, the HK sounds very good IMO, and begins to beat the Lexus hands down. Fully realize the difference in music quality, Freqs etc I am talking about, just surprised at how bad it sounds with bad music, yet how superior it is with good music.

otagomed

Thank you AussieBenzLover!

I chose ML500 since the price difference wasn't that great. If I add all the options ML500 has on ML350, the price difference becomes only about 6-7K.

Also... I can't think of any other luxury vehicle where you can get 4.7 litre V8 biturbo engine at that price.

Anyway... you may call me stupid but I'm about to order this vehicle even without test driving one. I have only driven ML350 and my dealer doesn't have any ML500. In fact when I check carsales.com.au there seem to be only 2 ML500s for sale in whole country.

Back to HK sound system... I think I will get it anyway... I am definitely not getting standard stereo and I am also not going to spend extra $8500 for B&O so I guess only option I've got is HK regardless of how good it is.

Thanks again for your answers!! I notice that you're in Melbourne! I live in Victoria too!

Cheers!

otagomed

Thank you!

I think you're right on that sound quality is a very subjective issue. I will be more than happy if it's similar to or better than my A4.

I should find a ML with HK and check it for myself... But unfortunately here in Australia where only 25million people live in a large continent, it's often very difficult to find a specific type of vehicle I want. lol.

otagomed

Thanks McClendons.
80% of time I listen to 320Kbps MP3... Hope the quality is good!
I also tried my friend's 2008 Lexus GS450h Mark Levinson and liked that too. So it sounds promising that HK sounds better than Mark Levinson for CD or good MP3.

otagomed

http://mercedes.harmankardon.com/en/vehicles/m-class/

I actually just found this page.
Interesting! It seems that MLs and GLs get the best HK system! Even better than S class HK! ML's 830Watt amp sounds promising compared to 450Watt of C class and 600Watt of S class!

clk200

Seems to confirm my personal experience that ML system sounds better compared with other (Mercedes) models! Also agree with remarks posted earlier as to differences depending on media played. The better the quality of the recording, the (much) better the sound. Like in any good (sound) system, poor recordings sound worse (low quality MP3s are no-no), good quality recordings come alive.

otagomed

Yeah, it exactly explains why you felt S class HK wasn't as good.

Benz Werd

You're welcome. It's always a nice bonus to come across another local on here.

You are right about the pricing of the ML500 compared to the 350. Considering all the standard kit that comes on the 500, and a similarly optioned 350 the prices are almost the same. And yeah, when you think about the next vehicle step up in the Benz range with the same 4.7 litre biturbo it's the E500 and that thing is close to $200K!

I chose the 500 because I'm a revhead and just love V8s. I also have an FPV V8 ute. I'm not a hoon at all though, in fact never done a burnout in my life. I just love V8s because they're a little more refined I find and it's so blissful when you just push your foot slightly and you can overtake quickly and safely plus being rewarded with the beautiful sound they produce. I loved my W164, it had the newer 5.5 litre 285kW engine compared to the earlier W164s that had the 5.0 litre 220kW, and surprisingly it wasn't heavy on juice at all. I had it for 4 years and I took that thing everywhere, up to QLD & NSW numerous times, and even to the outback once and that thing was unbreakable, so it was a no brainer to just get another 500, even though just like you I was unable to test drive one, only a 350 BlueTec, as there weren't any 500s in the country back in June. I was sold instantly from a 30 minute drive of the BlueTec around town and a quick squirt on the freeway, but at least without any sales guys present!! I'm lucky my dealer trusts me haha. I did, however, also take a new E500 for a spin with the new 4.7 donk just to get a feel of the engine at least.

Yes, I've seen those 2 ML500s on carsales as well. One of them is in Melbourne too, and I've considered going to the dealer and spinning a load of BS just to get a test drive of it. Unfortunately due to silly season being upon us I simply just haven't had the time, and before I know it mine will be here anyway so I figure I'll just wait. It's on the boat as we speak, about to arrive in Brisbane on Sunday and will arrive in Melbourne on NYE at this stage, with delivery to me around the 14th Jan. It's been a long wait as I mentioned earlier, but I'm so damn excited about it. I hope your wait isn't quite as long. My long wait was party due to MB not building any RHD 500s until about June/July this year I believe, so when I placed my order there was quite a backlog.

Such interesting comments from the other members about the HK sound being different depending on the model of Benz. I guess acoustics have got alot to do with it like somebody said, but it's great to hear that the ML seems to be the best of the lot, even better than that S-Class.

So yes, definitely go ahead and get HK. You will kick yourself if you don't. I haven't heard the B&O system in any car, but I'm always blown away by the HK systems in all Benzes so I just couldn't imagine it getting alot better. My bro has a Q7 so I'll make it my business to go check it out. I don't know if it has B&O though. I've only driven it once and that was 3 years ago. We're both always hanging it on each other as to who has the better cars. He's an Audi man, me a Benz boy, so it's interesting that you are making the switch across too. Is this your first MB? And have you looked at a new Q7 as an alternative? If so what has steered you towards the ML instead?

Cheers folks, and Season's Greetings to all!

Benz Werd

Hooray!! Sounds like you've answered your own question again ... and I'm just even more excited to hear this news also

otagomed

My dealer told me that it will be here sometime in April if I order now. I however know that it can be alot longer. Last time when I ordered my Audi, I was told that it will be available in 4 months but it actually took 8 months...

Yes. It's my first MB. My current vehicle is Audi A4 and the previous one was BMW 328.

I don't have a particular brand that I stick to...
I feel that MB is definitely the best of three in terms of brand value and people's perception...

I chose ML simply because I think I feel that it's the best choice at this time. I also considered BMW X5, Lexus RX, Porsche Cayenne, Audi Q5/Q7 and Rangerover Evoque...

BMW X5 - new model coming next year so no...
Lexus RX - good value for money but didn't like the quietness... and couldn't justify myself spending $100K for Toyota although the dealer offered me free 7 year warranty at 2.9% interest rates.
Porsche - too expensive.
Audi - Q5 too small, Q7 too big.
Rangerover - my wife hates the design.

ML - loved the design, new model recently released, priced better than its rivals. ie. V8 model cheaper than X5 or Cayenne V8s.

By the way one thing that I still don't understand is why the fuel consumption of ML500 is higher than ML63 AMG? 12.3L/100km vs 11.8...

Anyway lease post your story and pic once you pick up your ML500!

Thank you!!

Benz Werd

Most dealers have a ML63 sitting around now, so just jump into one of those and plug in your fav track and enjoy!!

Benz Werd

Wow, 8 months, that must have sucked. Yeah let's hope this wait won't be as long. April sounds realistic, but be prepared for delays etc.

Don't get me started on BMW ownership. All I'll say for now is I love their cars, but their people have no idea how to treat customers. Our C250 is a replacement for a '08 325i sedan, which was a great car to drive (and manual too!) but the whole experience with warranty issues and dealing with in-competent people there was enough to turn us off owning another one. We looked at the new 328i, and had one for a whole weekend, but still bought the C250 even though it was a model that's going to be replaced soon with the W205. Anyway, I don't have to drive it much and the other half is happy so that's all that's important haha, but it is a great car and runs rings around the E90 3-series that we had before.

Good to hear you've done your homework on the other options as far as V8 SUVs go. I agree with you 100% on everything you said. The X5 is awesome, I have another brother who has just sold his '10 x-drive 50i and it was great, but he's now woken up to himself and driving a Benz too haha. But yes, with a new model just around the corner you'd be silly to buy one now. Must have been hard to knock back that deal Lexus gave you though, but still no V8 (unless you get a LX470 which is huge!) so goodbye to them from my side of the fence. Funnily enough I have 'another' brother who has a fairly new RX350 and he loves it, but when I drive it it's just missing something (well of course no V8) but it seems to be just not quite up with the Germans. I have 4 brothers by the way. I also have a good friend who has a Cayenne, but yes, they are so expensive for what you get, and Range Rover, another mate has the fairly new TDV8 or whatever it is and it's so old looking and is such a truck to drive. I love the ML coz it's got all the room you need, but it still drives like a car.

I do love my cars, and I'm a self-claimed car-buff so I can go on about cars all day/night. But I have a special passion for Benz's, probably because I grew up with them, so I'm probably a little biased, but to me nothing else comes even close. They just work, and have class, and are safe as houses which is a huge bonus. I love all nice cars, but for some reason Beamers & Audi's just don't come close to MBs. They're still great cars, but I think it's a bit like the Holden 'vs' Ford thing, it depends what you grew up with.

And yes, the fuel consumption comparison between the ML63 & 500 is confusing. It might have something to do with the 500 'apparently' not having ECO STOP/START when they printed the brochures. My dealer hasn't been able to confirm whether mine will have that feature or not. Not to mention the multi-contour seats. I have no idea whether mine will have either, so I'll let you know. Neither were on the options list when I ordered, or in the standard specs list so who knows.

I will proudly share my happiness on here when mine arrives, and post pics too.

Not sure what options you're looking at but I've loaded mine up pretty much with everything except the AMG pack and the garage door opener thingie. ON/OFF ROAD pack, panoramic roof, entertainment pack, luxury front seats, heated rear seats, THERMOTRONIC, EASY-PACK FIX KIT, Wood/leather steering wheel, designo leather single black tone (but with the standard brown burr walnut wood trim elements which I hope will look amazing!), and tow pack. Iridium silver exterior colour. I have also found some 'V8 BITURBO' badges (normally on the ML63) on ebay from Japan for $60 each which I will fit after removing the 'BLUE EFFICIENCY' badges from the front guards! The dealer quoted me $200 each for these badges and said they wouldn't even fit them for me. WTF???

The only other thing I will change on it's arrival is the addition of super dark (not legal!) window tinting.

Would love to know what options and colours you are looking at.

Cheerio for now, and happy ordering! It's very exciting considering all the different colours and options available!

jtorrebl

We have a 2012 ml with HK and I had a new body style s4 with b&o and they both sounded similar in quality with the ml winning out in power and bass. I have a $6700 b&o in my 2012 a6 and the quality is better than the ml HK. Not by much, but not as bassy, which I wish I had in the a6. Everyone on Audi forums who has the b&o thinks its over priced for what it is. Test it out at a dealer

jean7of9

Both of my 2010 C350 and 2013 ML-63 AMG are equipped with Harman Kardon Logic 7. The ML System has a noticeable better sound quality and more advanced user interface.

GregW / Oregon

8.5 month wait for me, so 8 months would be like speedy! Anyhow, I am more than happy with the HK system in my 350 - sounds equal (better at low volumes) than the $1,900 factory "High End" system in my M3.

iankayem

They now supply a great CD with the W166 HK system. See if you can borrow it from the dealer, test it in whichever ML they have in stock, then compare it with your A4.

The disc has sample tracks with footsteps, helicopter, jazz, though to Beethoven.

Whatever the sound is like, you are only adding 1% to your cost so why not?

Live life and enjoy it.

otagomed

I finally ordered my ML today! I also managed to test drive one.
I went to the dealer in Melbourne where demo ML500 was for sale and test drove it. It felt different to ML350 I test drove before. Actually this was the very first V8 vehicle I've ever driven!
When I accelerated, it didn't feel like it was going fast. It felt as if ML500 was accelerating slower than ML350 or my Audi A4 but I realized that I was already on 80kph while I felt that I'm on 50kph.
I also felt that the ride was bit firmer. When I test drove ML350 it felt very smooth and soft. I personally prefer the softness of ML350... Is it may be due to the fact that ML500 got 21 inch wheels?
I also tested HK stereo. The vehicle did not have a cable for my Iphone so I connected it via bluetooth and the sound quality was very poor! Probably because it was a relatively poor quality mp3 file via blue tooth.
But as I wrote yesterday I'm not too worried about the sound quality of HK system now as most of users seem to be happy with it and I don't have any other option anyway!
The ML500 I drove however did not have options or colours I liked so I went to the dealer I met before and ordered my ML500.

It seems that you've got well loaded ML500 AussieBenzLover. My one is not as well loaded as yours. I've ordered:

ML500
Diamond White metalic paint
Two tonde Beige/Black interior with anthracite poplar wood trim
HK stereo
Panoramic sunroof
Sports package.

I could not decide on colours for few weeks. Both black and white looked fantastic but most of people around told me to get white as black is so hard to keep clean. Also the interior leather colour was a headache... but decided on Beige/Black after seeing a photo of ML350 someone uploaded here at mbworld.org.

My dealer expects it to be built in late January and delivered in Melbounre in late march/april. I feel that it will be probably bit longer than that.

Thanks for sharing the information AussieBenzLover. I really look forward to seeing pictures of your ML500 when you get it in January!

otagomed

Thank you for your comment! Good to hear it from someone who owns both ML HK and Audi B&O.

otagomed

I tried that CD on my friend's C250. It sounded fantastic except the Beethoven. The classical music wasn't that impressive with C250 HK. But then I don't listen to classical music so not a problem.

And you're right. It's only about 1% extra so why not!!

Benz Werd

No worries, glad to share. Your very first V8? A very nice one to start off with then.

The only thing I can think of in relation to the firmer ride is yes, perhaps the 21" wheels and that particular vehicle has got the AMG sports pack, which you've ordered on yours. I wanted that too, but it wasn't available in conjunction with the ON/OFF-road pack. The ML500 also has airmatic as standard. So I'm not sure how the ML350 you drove was specced, but they could be reasons why.

Yes, colour choosing was the hardest for me too. I toyed with it for about 2 months. My previous ML was Iridium Silver, and so was my E-class before that. I boiled it down to Palladium Silver and also Diamond White but in the end I went with Iridium again as it's so easy to keep clean, and in my option it still looks the smartest of all the colours, especially if it's night time and it's all shined up. Black also looks great too, but it requires alot of work to keep it clean and looking good, something I don't have the time for.

I also wanted the standard black leather and the black roof-lining but they wouldn't let me have the black roof-lining on it's own as an option, only in conjunction with the two-tone interior like you've gone for. Although I was considering the grey/black combo. In the end I forked out the extra cash for designo, as I could then get all black including roofliner and I love the diamond pattern on the seats. It was only a $3500 option and I figured that was quite resonable.

Yes I've loaded mine up with all the options I wanted as I plan to have this car for at least 4 maybe even 5 years, and life is short so why the heck not. I was quite suprised how reasonably priced most of the options were to be honest. Not as cheap as the USA though unfortunately.

Yours is quite nicely loaded too. Can I suggest you seriously consider the luxury front seats though? It's only around a $1500 option and it makes a huge difference on those super hot sticky Victorian days. You do have to draw the line somewhere though haha.

Anyway a huge congratulations to you on our order. Let's hope your wait isn't too long.

Thimee

Just to toss in some additional 2c...

I came from a S550 with the HK system, I actually had some trouble with the bass/woofer rattling at medium to high volume - especially with Logic 7 mode enabled. This only happened with certain types of music, probably related to Logic 7 algorithms. Dealer fixed it twice while I had the car, I suspect that some of the wiring or mounting screws were loose and causing the rattle.

So now that I've been driving my ML550 for a month I can compare the two:
- ML sounds great, very similar to the S in quality.
- Can be bass heavy on certain types of music - for example I was playing some Above and Beyond earlier this afternoon, and had to step down the bass -2 or -3 to stop everything from jumping around at moderate volume levels.
- Bluetooth quality is so-so, better than previous but still has noticeable compression artifacts.
- iPhone integration is nice, but requires opening the console each time to plug in.
- SD card is actually the way to go, I bought a cheap 128GB card and loaded it up with 320K MP3's, this way I can carry an enormous quantity of music on demand.
- I noticed that the radio can now pick up HD stations, but who still listens to broadcast radio?
- Sirrus, I personally hate the low quality, bad programming and outrageous subscription fees.

I drover a loaner GLK on Friday while they were installing my clear-bra, the difference in quality between stock radio and the HK system is like night and day.

Wait, that's more like 3 or even 4c!

katiesdad7

We tested the HK system on 2 different ML's. One with the HK and the other without it. Once we heard it we were hooked.