Bob, Trench, Lynn... need your input
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Bob, Trench, Lynn... need your input
Here is a situation, tell me what would happen and how the FIA would react and/or issue a penalty in Formula One.
Driver A is in first place, he is 19 seconds ahead of Driver B who is in second place. Driver A goes into the pits to make his first stop. Driver A then leaves the pits and on his way out of the pits, Driver B hits Driver A behind when he is merging at over 180mph. Driver A was within the white line and didn't cross it when he was going to merge. Driver B only lost a wing, while Driver A had to retire from the race. Driver B then went on to win the race.
How would the FIA react, and what types of penalities would be issued?
I am in an online F1 league, and I was Driver A. The guy who runs the league doesn't know what to do, so I have to find out what the FIA would do in real life
.
BTW, this would be at San Marino.
Thanks
Driver A is in first place, he is 19 seconds ahead of Driver B who is in second place. Driver A goes into the pits to make his first stop. Driver A then leaves the pits and on his way out of the pits, Driver B hits Driver A behind when he is merging at over 180mph. Driver A was within the white line and didn't cross it when he was going to merge. Driver B only lost a wing, while Driver A had to retire from the race. Driver B then went on to win the race.
How would the FIA react, and what types of penalities would be issued?
I am in an online F1 league, and I was Driver A. The guy who runs the league doesn't know what to do, so I have to find out what the FIA would do in real life
.BTW, this would be at San Marino.
Thanks
Last edited by Accord; Oct 20, 2002 at 02:53 PM.
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The following in the appropriate excerpt from the 2002 FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS:
INCIDENTS
53) Incident means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action
by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the
race director for investigation) which :
- necessitated the stopping of a race under Article 155;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code;
- caused a false start by one or more cars;
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
54(a) It shall be at the discretion of the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director, if
a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised.
b) If an incident is under investigation by the stewards, a message informing all Teams of this will be
displayed on the timing monitors.
c) If a driver is involved in a collision or Incident (see Article 53), and has been informed of this by the
stewards no later than 30 minutes after the race has finished, he must not leave the circuit without their consent.
55) The stewards may impose any one of two penalties a 10 second time penalty on any driver involved in
an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without
stopping at the pit;
b) A ten-second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten
seconds and then re-join the race.
However, should any of the above penalties such penalty be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end
of a race, Article 56b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver
concerned.
56) Should the stewards decide to impose a time penalty, the following procedure will be followed :
a) The stewards will give written notification of the time penalty which has been imposed to an official
of the team concerned and will ensure that this information is also displayed on the timing monitors.
b) From the time the steward’s decision is notified on the timing monitors the relevant driver may cover
no more than three complete laps before entering the pits and proceeding to his pit where he shall remain for the
period of the time penalty.
Whilst a car is stationary in the pits as a result of incurring a time penalty it may not be worked on. However, if
the engine stops it may be started after the time penalty period has elapsed.
c) When the time penalty period has elapsed the driver may rejoin the race.
d) Any breach or failure to comply with Articles 56 b) or 56 c) may result in the car being excluded.
57) Any determination made or any penalty imposed pursuant to Article 55 shall be without prejudice to
the operation of Articles 160 or 161 of the Code.
PROTESTS
58) Protests shall be made in accordance with the Code and accompanied by a fee of 2000 US Dollars.
SANCTIONS
59) The stewards may inflict the penalties specifically set out in these Sporting Regulations in addition to
or instead of any other penalties available to them under the Code.
To summarize, the penalties available are 1. a drive through penalty where the driver is required to drive throught the pits at the speed limit or 2. the penalty where the driver is to stop at his pit for 10 seconds. If the incident occurs late in the race and the penalty cannot be served in the last five laps, the steward may add 25 seconds to the driver's race time.
As to who is to blame, that is the decision of the stewards and usually the chief steward. Trying to estimate what the decision would be is difficult as the position is rotated and one of the men is a flipping idiot.
I checked the regs and didn't find anything helpful as to whether or not a driver on the course may cross the pit exit line. If I were the steward, that would be a big no-no. If the cars exiting the pits cannot cross it, then the high speed cars on the course shouldn't cross the line either for the safety of all participants.
If I were the steward of the race for your situation, driver B would have had the 10 seconds in the pits penalty. I could find no provision for a driver to be disqualified. Since this is being decided after the race, I think the proper recourse under the Sporting Regulations would be to add 25 seconds to driver B's race time, and place him in his proper finishing position based on time.
Could I get more long winded than this?
Oh hell yeah!
INCIDENTS
53) Incident means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action
by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the
race director for investigation) which :
- necessitated the stopping of a race under Article 155;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code;
- caused a false start by one or more cars;
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
54(a) It shall be at the discretion of the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director, if
a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised.
b) If an incident is under investigation by the stewards, a message informing all Teams of this will be
displayed on the timing monitors.
c) If a driver is involved in a collision or Incident (see Article 53), and has been informed of this by the
stewards no later than 30 minutes after the race has finished, he must not leave the circuit without their consent.
55) The stewards may impose any one of two penalties a 10 second time penalty on any driver involved in
an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without
stopping at the pit;
b) A ten-second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten
seconds and then re-join the race.
However, should any of the above penalties such penalty be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end
of a race, Article 56b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver
concerned.
56) Should the stewards decide to impose a time penalty, the following procedure will be followed :
a) The stewards will give written notification of the time penalty which has been imposed to an official
of the team concerned and will ensure that this information is also displayed on the timing monitors.
b) From the time the steward’s decision is notified on the timing monitors the relevant driver may cover
no more than three complete laps before entering the pits and proceeding to his pit where he shall remain for the
period of the time penalty.
Whilst a car is stationary in the pits as a result of incurring a time penalty it may not be worked on. However, if
the engine stops it may be started after the time penalty period has elapsed.
c) When the time penalty period has elapsed the driver may rejoin the race.
d) Any breach or failure to comply with Articles 56 b) or 56 c) may result in the car being excluded.
57) Any determination made or any penalty imposed pursuant to Article 55 shall be without prejudice to
the operation of Articles 160 or 161 of the Code.
PROTESTS
58) Protests shall be made in accordance with the Code and accompanied by a fee of 2000 US Dollars.
SANCTIONS
59) The stewards may inflict the penalties specifically set out in these Sporting Regulations in addition to
or instead of any other penalties available to them under the Code.
To summarize, the penalties available are 1. a drive through penalty where the driver is required to drive throught the pits at the speed limit or 2. the penalty where the driver is to stop at his pit for 10 seconds. If the incident occurs late in the race and the penalty cannot be served in the last five laps, the steward may add 25 seconds to the driver's race time.
As to who is to blame, that is the decision of the stewards and usually the chief steward. Trying to estimate what the decision would be is difficult as the position is rotated and one of the men is a flipping idiot.
I checked the regs and didn't find anything helpful as to whether or not a driver on the course may cross the pit exit line. If I were the steward, that would be a big no-no. If the cars exiting the pits cannot cross it, then the high speed cars on the course shouldn't cross the line either for the safety of all participants.
If I were the steward of the race for your situation, driver B would have had the 10 seconds in the pits penalty. I could find no provision for a driver to be disqualified. Since this is being decided after the race, I think the proper recourse under the Sporting Regulations would be to add 25 seconds to driver B's race time, and place him in his proper finishing position based on time.
Could I get more long winded than this?
Oh hell yeah!
Last edited by Lynn; Oct 20, 2002 at 07:37 PM.
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Wow, thanks for the response!
It doesn't seem right though, a driver going 180mph carelessly crashes into another driver exiting the pits who is going only a mere 50mph recieves a drive through penalty? A fine of 100k sounds more just!
This happened 10 laps into the race, and it was determined that Driver B was at fault, it's just the penalty that is to be issued is still in question.
A drive through or a stop and go penalty cannot happen, since the race took place this morning. Adding on 25 seconds would not change his race position, unfortunately, and since this is an online racing league, we cannot issue fines of 100,000 dollars :p.
BTW, Driver A (me) was KR and Driver B was JPM.
It doesn't seem right though, a driver going 180mph carelessly crashes into another driver exiting the pits who is going only a mere 50mph recieves a drive through penalty? A fine of 100k sounds more just!
This happened 10 laps into the race, and it was determined that Driver B was at fault, it's just the penalty that is to be issued is still in question.
A drive through or a stop and go penalty cannot happen, since the race took place this morning. Adding on 25 seconds would not change his race position, unfortunately, and since this is an online racing league, we cannot issue fines of 100,000 dollars :p.
BTW, Driver A (me) was KR and Driver B was JPM
.
Last edited by Accord; Oct 20, 2002 at 08:18 PM.
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There is a new rule under which a driver who does something stupid can be moved 10 places back from his qualifying position on the grid of the next race, but I couldn't find it. I don't think the FIA web site has been updated with that yet.
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My guess for your particular situation (deciding what to do after the race has finished) is that the FIA would do as Lynn said in the last post - dock the driver 10 qualifying positions in the next race.
This is why Massa wasn't at the USGP, he was held responsible for the collision with De La Rosa at Italy - but was unable to be penalized in that situation. He was going to be docked the 10 qualifying places - Sauber decided that it would be better for them if he just didn't race at all in the next race and had Frenzen take his spot.
Of course if the driver causing the accident had been MS there would be no penalties.
BT
This is why Massa wasn't at the USGP, he was held responsible for the collision with De La Rosa at Italy - but was unable to be penalized in that situation. He was going to be docked the 10 qualifying places - Sauber decided that it would be better for them if he just didn't race at all in the next race and had Frenzen take his spot.
Of course if the driver causing the accident had been MS there would be no penalties.
BT
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I recall one of the races earlier this year where the commentators said a car on the course can't cross the parallel pit exit line IF there is a car in the pit exit lane. (Doesn't apply at the start of the race, since there shouldn't be any car exiting the pits until the entire field passes).
Lynn has checked the regs and can't find anything specific to this, so I wonder if David Hobbs or his cronies were just mouthing.
Too bad the rules governing Virtual racing are not as comprehensive as the real deal. On second thought, maybe it's a blessing, afterall. I almost fell asleep reading Lynn's copy of the rules sections above.
Lynn has checked the regs and can't find anything specific to this, so I wonder if David Hobbs or his cronies were just mouthing.
Too bad the rules governing Virtual racing are not as comprehensive as the real deal. On second thought, maybe it's a blessing, afterall. I almost fell asleep reading Lynn's copy of the rules sections above.
