722.9 (7-speed) transmission corrosion issue
12-19-2011, 05:47 PM
#26
i have a 2004 cl65 transmission and was told that this trans pan and many others already have magnets installed in the pan. can anyone verify?
thanks
thanks
01-09-2012, 01:58 PM
#28
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Here is the bulletin regarding the fluids. The last two pages are for power steering fluids not applicable to this thread, but I group my fluid information together for future reference.
01-14-2012, 03:57 PM
#30
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Gents, have you guys heard about this? I heard this from a credible source and I am planning to take action to save my own trans...
There is a growing problem with the older 7-speed trannys (pre-2010 manufacture date). The red trans fluid used in the pre-2010 722.9 units causes corrosion in the electronics inside the trans. This apparently affects several manufacturers, not just MB. The electronics are made by Siemens, which supplied parts for many manufacturers. Transmissions made after sometime in 2010 use a new blue trans fluid which is not corrosive and do not have this problem.
If your car has this trans and it already has the blue fluid, then you have nothing to worry about (re: this issue). If your car has the red fluid and your car experiences no transmission problems (e.g., stuck in gear, hard to start, check engine light for trans problem,...), then you should proactively flush the old red fluid out and put the blue fluid in. If your trans is giving problems like those mentioned above, then you might be looking at a complete trans replacement! This issue can start appearing in earnest around 60k miles. Note that the red and blue fluids are not compatible, so the red fluid must be flushed out. There can be some residual red left over, the trans does not need to be wiped dry before installing the blue, but you must do a full, normal, complete flush.
I am going to have my fluid changed again within the next few days, despite the fact that my trans just had a flush (red fluid) completed a year ago and has no problem symptoms.
Comments?
There is a growing problem with the older 7-speed trannys (pre-2010 manufacture date). The red trans fluid used in the pre-2010 722.9 units causes corrosion in the electronics inside the trans. This apparently affects several manufacturers, not just MB. The electronics are made by Siemens, which supplied parts for many manufacturers. Transmissions made after sometime in 2010 use a new blue trans fluid which is not corrosive and do not have this problem.
If your car has this trans and it already has the blue fluid, then you have nothing to worry about (re: this issue). If your car has the red fluid and your car experiences no transmission problems (e.g., stuck in gear, hard to start, check engine light for trans problem,...), then you should proactively flush the old red fluid out and put the blue fluid in. If your trans is giving problems like those mentioned above, then you might be looking at a complete trans replacement! This issue can start appearing in earnest around 60k miles. Note that the red and blue fluids are not compatible, so the red fluid must be flushed out. There can be some residual red left over, the trans does not need to be wiped dry before installing the blue, but you must do a full, normal, complete flush.
I am going to have my fluid changed again within the next few days, despite the fact that my trans just had a flush (red fluid) completed a year ago and has no problem symptoms.
Comments?
I heard that the various fluids like transmission, differential, motor fluids have certain chemicals removed, so we have to figure out what to actually use.
01-15-2012, 08:29 AM
#31
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For what it's worth, my E63 (55,000 miles) is now in its 2nd week of sitting at the dealer's shop waiting for a backordered conductor plate to be delivered from the fatherland, with no hard shipping date as of yet.
01-21-2012, 02:34 PM
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I just come across this thread while researching the 7 speed transmission "blue" fluid issue. Like the thread originator, Black E63, I too live in Sacramento and last week my independent MBZ shop owner advised me to change the transmission fluid from the current red to blue. The reasons cited: red fluid damages the electronics, issue applies to other cars such as Porsche, BMW, etc., MBUSA technical bulletins advising fluid change, independent shops no longer able to obtain replacement transmission from MBUSA, lawsuits everywhere, etc. Cost for blue fluid change: $500. What annoyed me most was that I just changed the fluid at this shop 10 months ago. I called my local MBZ dealer and was told that I'm the second person to raise this issue. They are still using red fluid and know nothing about the blue fluid issue. Last week I also wrote a letter to MBUSA asking for clarification. If I obtain a response, I'll post the particulars. This is my 6th MB in the last 30 years and I've always been aggressive about maintenance: "A" service @ 5k intervals; all fluids changed at 20K intervals, etc. I dont' mind paying for maintenance, but I don't like to cover the same ground twice. For me, the bottom line is that if the "issue" isn't confirmed by the dealer and/or MBUSA, I'm skeptical. If I get more facts, I'll be glad to share.
01-21-2012, 03:07 PM
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I just come across this thread while researching the 7 speed transmission "blue" fluid issue. Like the thread originator, Black E63, I too live in Sacramento and last week my independent MBZ shop owner advised me to change the transmission fluid from the current red to blue. The reasons cited: red fluid damages the electronics, issue applies to other cars such as Porsche, BMW, etc., MBUSA technical bulletins advising fluid change, independent shops no longer able to obtain replacement transmission from MBUSA, lawsuits everywhere, etc. Cost for blue fluid change: $500. What annoyed me most was that I just changed the fluid at this shop 10 months ago. I called my local MBZ dealer and was told that I'm the second person to raise this issue. They are still using red fluid and know nothing about the blue fluid issue. Last week I also wrote a letter to MBUSA asking for clarification. If I obtain a response, I'll post the particulars. This is my 6th MB in the last 30 years and I've always been aggressive about maintenance: "A" service @ 5k intervals; all fluids changed at 20K intervals, etc. I dont' mind paying for maintenance, but I don't like to cover the same ground twice. For me, the bottom line is that if the "issue" isn't confirmed by the dealer and/or MBUSA, I'm skeptical. If I get more facts, I'll be glad to share.
let us know what Meredes says and if anyone in Europe can validate what is recommended in European cars of the same year, that would be helpful.
01-21-2012, 03:24 PM
#34
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I just come across this thread while researching the 7 speed transmission "blue" fluid issue. Like the thread originator, Black E63, I too live in Sacramento and last week my independent MBZ shop owner advised me to change the transmission fluid from the current red to blue. The reasons cited: red fluid damages the electronics, issue applies to other cars such as Porsche, BMW, etc., MBUSA technical bulletins advising fluid change, independent shops no longer able to obtain replacement transmission from MBUSA, lawsuits everywhere, etc. Cost for blue fluid change: $500. What annoyed me most was that I just changed the fluid at this shop 10 months ago. I called my local MBZ dealer and was told that I'm the second person to raise this issue. They are still using red fluid and know nothing about the blue fluid issue. Last week I also wrote a letter to MBUSA asking for clarification. If I obtain a response, I'll post the particulars. This is my 6th MB in the last 30 years and I've always been aggressive about maintenance: "A" service @ 5k intervals; all fluids changed at 20K intervals, etc. I dont' mind paying for maintenance, but I don't like to cover the same ground twice. For me, the bottom line is that if the "issue" isn't confirmed by the dealer and/or MBUSA, I'm skeptical. If I get more facts, I'll be glad to share.
01-21-2012, 03:32 PM
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You raise a very good point. I've been advised by MBZ shops that 1) Europeans are much more oriented towards frequent maintenance than in the U.S., perhaps due to the highter cost of vehicle ownership, and 2) the EPA is behind the change in lubricant composition. I think we are going through a transition period between environmental needs and current technology that is reminiscent of the change over from leaded to non-leaded fuels. Ultimately, manufacturers will catch up, but owners have to navigate all of this in the meantime. The MBZ shop owner who advised me to change over to the "blue" fluid also advised against using the type of Mobile 1 synthetic motor oil recommended by MBUSA, referring to it as "green" technology oil (doesn't this use of colors to explain the issue make you feel like a 6 year old?). In any event, he advises the use of Mobile 1 motorcycle oil at his shop for MBZ oil changes. Apparently it still contains the additives now removed from Mobile 1 "green" (zinc, vitamin E, God knows whatelse, etc.). On one hand, I can understand the problem given the tension between maintenance and the environment. On the other hand, I don't like crypto-maintenance practices. I envy the older MBZs with 200K miles still going strong. I guess no one told the owners about blue, green and red oils.
01-21-2012, 04:34 PM
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You raise a very good point. I've been advised by MBZ shops that 1) Europeans are much more oriented towards frequent maintenance than in the U.S., perhaps due to the highter cost of vehicle ownership, and 2) the EPA is behind the change in lubricant composition. I think we are going through a transition period between environmental needs and current technology that is reminiscent of the change over from leaded to non-leaded fuels. Ultimately, manufacturers will catch up, but owners have to navigate all of this in the meantime. The MBZ shop owner who advised me to change over to the "blue" fluid also advised against using the type of Mobile 1 synthetic motor oil recommended by MBUSA, referring to it as "green" technology oil (doesn't this use of colors to explain the issue make you feel like a 6 year old?). In any event, he advises the use of Mobile 1 motorcycle oil at his shop for MBZ oil changes. Apparently it still contains the additives now removed from Mobile 1 "green" (zinc, vitamin E, God knows whatelse, etc.). On one hand, I can understand the problem given the tension between maintenance and the environment. On the other hand, I don't like crypto-maintenance practices. I envy the older MBZs with 200K miles still going strong. I guess no one told the owners about blue, green and red oils.
01-21-2012, 05:21 PM
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What is unclear about the MB document in post 28? Is there still information that negates that document as provided by Mercedes Benz?
Is specs the 722.6 and 722.9 trans, differentiates the red and blue with explanation and advised how to identify the switch by design of the trans pan.
Is specs the 722.6 and 722.9 trans, differentiates the red and blue with explanation and advised how to identify the switch by design of the trans pan.
01-21-2012, 06:14 PM
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"What's unclear about the MB document in post 28?"
I learned the hard way long ago not to attempt to interpret the applicability of tech. bulletins anymore than I self-diagnose medical needs. That's what the "experts" are well paid to do. More to the point, the issue, at least for me, is not what's in the tech. bulletin. Rather, it's why the independent and the dealer are giving me exact opposite answers on a vehicle they've both serviced. Since I practially support both of them, I'm taking the bulletin to both next week asking for an explanation. It appears that one or the other doesn't know what they're talking about. When you blithely ask for $500 to service a transmission you just serviced 10 months ago, you better know your facts.
I learned the hard way long ago not to attempt to interpret the applicability of tech. bulletins anymore than I self-diagnose medical needs. That's what the "experts" are well paid to do. More to the point, the issue, at least for me, is not what's in the tech. bulletin. Rather, it's why the independent and the dealer are giving me exact opposite answers on a vehicle they've both serviced. Since I practially support both of them, I'm taking the bulletin to both next week asking for an explanation. It appears that one or the other doesn't know what they're talking about. When you blithely ask for $500 to service a transmission you just serviced 10 months ago, you better know your facts.
01-21-2012, 06:36 PM
#39
please let us know the results.
01-21-2012, 06:50 PM
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10 speed bicycle
Some people believe anything. The corrosion issue is complete BS. All the ISP's that are telling you this are just trying to make a buck. The truth regarding the conductor plate issue/speed sensor is that during the manufacturing process the solder joints for the speed sensor were faulty. Not corrosion. For those looking for more info PM me.
01-21-2012, 07:50 PM
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Some people believe anything. The corrosion issue is complete BS. All the ISP's that are telling you this are just trying to make a buck. The truth regarding the conductor plate issue/speed sensor is that during the manufacturing process the solder joints for the speed sensor were faulty. Not corrosion. For those looking for more info PM me.
I had a C230 and I didn't have any problems with that transmission, but I am getting ready to buy a new C class and am just interested for my own piece of mind. because when there are changes in the fluids and oils we use and there are companies, service centers independant or MBSC, saying various things, it gets confusing and the European market doesn't have the EPA changing rules on additives, which the EPA is doing and it does get confusing.
01-21-2012, 08:38 PM
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10 speed bicycle
Is there some Bulletin that discusses this that we can read? Is it only on certain model year transmissions?
I had a C230 and I didn't have any problems with that transmission, but I am getting ready to buy a new C class and am just interested for my own piece of mind. because when there are changes in the fluids and oils we use and there are companies, service centers independant or MBSC, saying various things, it gets confusing and the European market doesn't have the EPA changing rules on additives, which the EPA is doing and it does get confusing.
I had a C230 and I didn't have any problems with that transmission, but I am getting ready to buy a new C class and am just interested for my own piece of mind. because when there are changes in the fluids and oils we use and there are companies, service centers independant or MBSC, saying various things, it gets confusing and the European market doesn't have the EPA changing rules on additives, which the EPA is doing and it does get confusing.
Bulletin discussing what the change in fluid or the conductor plate issue?
01-21-2012, 10:26 PM
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thanks
01-21-2012, 10:42 PM
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In terms of ENGINES, I looked up PVD coatings and the automotive industry has actually changed certain aspects of engines, where they changed the alloys from carbon steel to titanium or other none corrosive metals and have applied Coating to Reduce friction and thus less wear, but they used Toyota as one example, but didn't go into any more depth. But I thought it was interesting because engine mfg have changed from iron to aluminum which does change what type of oil composition should be used due to the metal changes. I just thought it was interesting as a side note.
01-21-2012, 11:45 PM
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As some of us know, to change the viscosity of oil or ATF, they use different additives to do this. Which one(s) do they use? I have no idea on how to answer that one...
01-21-2012, 11:59 PM
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Regarding fluids there are only two for the 722.9 and there was one for the 722.6. They have eliminated the 722.6 fluid as the red fluid ATF134 for the 722.9 is backwards compatible. There are currently 2 different pans for the 722.9. ATF 134 FE is the blue fluid which is basically the same but a lower viscosity fluid for use in the low friction 722.9 to increase fuel economy.
01-22-2012, 12:01 PM
#47
this is very interesting and confusing. i have a 2005 cl65 trans, which is a 5 speed. does any of this pertain to my tranny? also, i have mercedes tranny fluid. it is red, part# a 001 989 68 03 13. is this the correct fluid for my 5 speed tranny?
01-22-2012, 04:37 PM
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'96 SL600, '05 S55 AMG, '06 C230
Cheers,
Jeff
01-22-2012, 06:20 PM
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With 99.999% certainty, the red fluid is correct for all 5-speeds, including yours, mine and anyone else. The blue fluid is only applicable for the newer 7-speed. And as we have learned here, there is belief the blue fluid when used in older 7-speeds and any 5-speed, *may* be harmful. No data exists to recommend changing from red to blue. If you have red fluid, stay with red fluid.
Cheers,
Jeff
Cheers,
Jeff
01-22-2012, 06:29 PM
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There is no bulletin pertaining to the solder joint. That is unofficial information from MB.
Regarding fluids there are only two for the 722.9 and there was one for the 722.6. They have eliminated the 722.6 fluid as the red fluid ATF134 for the 722.9 is backwards compatible. There are currently 2 different pans for the 722.9. ATF 134 FE is the blue fluid which is basically the same but a lower viscosity fluid for use in the low friction 722.9 to increase fuel economy.
Regarding fluids there are only two for the 722.9 and there was one for the 722.6. They have eliminated the 722.6 fluid as the red fluid ATF134 for the 722.9 is backwards compatible. There are currently 2 different pans for the 722.9. ATF 134 FE is the blue fluid which is basically the same but a lower viscosity fluid for use in the low friction 722.9 to increase fuel economy.
