RJC

My dealer left the cover to the dipstick tube (even though there is no dipstick in the 2003 5.0) off after they checked the oil level of my car during a service visit, I found it sitting on top of the battery cover 4 days later (the battery cover is such that it kept the piece from falling off). Unfortunately there was 4 days of driving in very heavy rain until I discovered the cap sitting on the battery cover when I washed my car. After about a week my engine started making a rotating chirping sound from under the right front of the valve cover. After 3 trips back to the dealer they had to replace a cam gear and they said there was no nylon on the gear, I never heard the noise prior to this (and beleive me I would have). Do you think this could be related to water/dirt entering the tube during all that rain? I was told the dipstick tube has a protective mechanism at the bottom of the tube that would have prevented any water/contaminets from getting in.

Thanks

dtkw

Sorry to hear about your misfortune with the dealer. I have had my shares with them and I am done with them.

Incident #1: Spilled oil all over the engine compartment. Driving with stream coming out for under.

Incident #2: Cooling Flush, recommended by service manager. Forgot to tighten the radiator cap, leaked cooling all over the garage floor.

Didn't want anymore incident like that with them. I one time called them and asked about certain things, the guy went to a defensive mode telling me all these German certified technical have total of 70 years experience....BS. But they still made mistakes on our expenses.

patrick

RJC,

What is a "gear cam"? (You know my technical English is not that good)

A "protective mechanism" at the bottom of the tube is "B.S." (That kind of English I know better, everyone understands that)

MB-document SI18.40-P-0001A concerning the dipstick tube cover says that if the cover is not mounted correctly it is possible that under certain circumstances the oil pump sucks air (and causing serious engine damage).
However, this document is from 2001 and from the beginning that Mercedes started mounting the covers instead of dipsticks on diesel engines (in Europe), so this document talks about diesel engines 611 and 612 (and maybe has never been updated when they started putting the covers on other engines too).

I have already seen (and read) that MB dealerships in America (or USA) work (and are) completely different from the European. This monday there were two guys from the factory at our dealership and one of them was in the USA for several years. He says it is just totally different.
So such things make me very curious about how things go overthere. Does your dealer have a website where I can have a look at?

There is also another topic on this forum about service bulletins. After having checked a few data, I can tell that those bulletins are about one year behind.

RJC

Patrick,

Thanks for the quick reply. The parts changed were

112 050 02 04 Camshaft Gears (the service order also refers to these as cam sprockets)

113 016 03 21 gaskets (I'd imagine valve cover gaskets)

So there is no protective mechanism at the base of the dipstaick tube...great they all lied to me! As I mentioned it rained for 4 days straight and I washed the car before I noticed the cover was on the battery cover. The noise started right afetr all this and I'm concerned about future damage to my engine. How would all this effect a 2003 5.o liter engine? I need an expert opinion please.

Thanks

konigstiger

"There is also another topic on this forum about service bulletins. After having checked a few data, I can tell that those bulletins are about one year behind."

Can you offer any assistance in getting the following repairs completed properly the first time around (i.e.: current TSB, past experience, etc.)?

E320 @ 6000 miles (built 11/02):
(1) Factory in dash 6-disc CD changer skips during CD mix function
(2) Driver’s door wind noise @ 50 mph plus
(3) Rattle heard inside rear passenger door upon closing during entry with window down (possibly window)
(4) Slight steering wheel shimmy @ 50 mph plus
(5) Drifts right
(6) Engine ticking noise at idle
(7) Lack of engine power (P-B-07.00/28 ?)
(8) Recurring brake pump noise (P-B-42.46/27already applied)
(9) Excessively loud cooling fan

Thanks.

patrick

First: did you visit your dealer with those problems? What did they do? They should be able to fix a lot (not to say all) of your problems.

I do not like to throw everything I know at this forum (one of the reasons is that there is too much pedantry and too less respect for MB-dealers/techs here) but I will try to help you with a few things.

I also want to stress the fact that my technical English is very bad and it is possible that I have things in mind that I cannot explain in English or that will not be understood.

1. Has your dealer experienced this and why did not he change the CD-changer under warranty? Do not use self-burnt CD's.
2. such problems must be experienced and are very difficult to be fixed trough this forum.
What is known? Air that flows at the lower side of the front doors can make noises. It can be worse with sunroof open. Some seams must have extra sealing (I have pictures of where and how to change them but cannot put them on the forum), sealing changed since VIN 249520. All front doors have been changed in production from march 2002 on, an extra fleece (A 211 720 15 78 or 16 78) is mounted. From december 2001 on, extra felt is placed behind the window switches. Border has changed from januari 2003 (A 211 720 11 78).
3. again such problems must be experienced/heard and are very difficult to be fixed trough this forum. But has your dealer already taken off the door panel to look inside?
4. Which wheels and tyres do you have? Using non-original stuff (wheels!) can downgrade quality a lot.
Almost daily we get cars in our workshop with tyres that are not well balanced by the tyre sales center (or whatever you call it in USA). So maybe they just need to be balanced (again)? If not using wheels and tyres from another (new) car can make things clear. Bushings or likely will not be worn because your car is not that old (mileage).
5. The steering system is very direct and free of friction. That makes it sensitive for bent roads (horizontally), the car wants to "follow". There is a road nereby where I work that is almost perfectly horizontal. Overthere we check if it are the roads that make the car drift or if it is something else.
Overhere, roads are almost all bent to drain the water (rain) because it rains a lot. I do not know how much it rains and how the roads are where you live.
The influence of the tyres must be checked. Does it drift to the other side when front R is put L and L is put R? If it is just the same then alignment must be checked. If everything OK we give left side camber 10-20 minutes less negative or right side extra negative depending on how values are. This can be done while staying in specs. After that cars run perfect on most roads.
6. again such problems must be heard, etc... Ticking noise is known for engine M113 (V8). I am not sure for V6. check engine mounts. Part No. ending at 25 17 may not be mounted. Use A 220 240 27 17.
7. The TSB you are talking about is from MBUSA only. Due to other emission laws engines have other control units. No known problems of that kind in Europe. Fault codes or not?
8. again TSB is from MBUSA only. We use a direct connection with DCAG to have the latest information, so that TSB No. does not tell me anything. But is a damper already been mounted, does your SBC-unit have a new type support, do you have a new type of hose on the SBC-unit, is a rubber silent-bloc (or whatever you call it in USA) been modified on one of the SBC-hoses?
9. Isn't there something wrong with the electrical or cooling system that makes the cooling fan turn too quick? (E.g. at 100% instead of less). If not maybe your dealer can compare with another vehicle (same engine, fan, situation,...). If it is too loud it should be replaced under warranty.

Patrick

konigstiger

Patrick,

Thanks for taking the time to address my concerns. Hopefully, the following will answer your questions.

(1) CD player: Upon installing new changer found new changer is wrong & fiber optics are different. Reinstalled old changer. No further info was given as to whether or not the correct changer was ordered or when it will be delivered.
(2) Wind noise: Dismissed as "could not duplicate". My guess is that they did not remove the door panel.
(3) Rattle: Just developed and has not been in for repair. It looks as though it is the window when in the down position.
(4) Shimmy: Just developed and has not been in for repair. The tires are original equipment Michelins inflated top spec all around.
(5) Drift: Just developed and has not been in for repair. Another member posted their work order upon successful repair. It reads: Wheel alignment front & rear. Installed right camber adjusting bolt to correct for right pull.
(6) Ticking: Dismissed as "could not duplicate" in writing. The service rep verbally claimed that I already have newer mounts.
(7) NA.
(8) Brake pump noise: Recurs intermittently upon shut off. Less than before but still exists. Installed pulsation damper suction hose.
(9) Loud fan: Dismissed as "could not duplicate" in writing. However, service rep verbally claimed that this is normal - without attempting physical inspection.

RJC

Patrick?

patrick

RJC,

I doubt that if those cam gears are damaged due to the cover not being on the dipstick tube that it would be these parts only.
But maybe the problem with the cam gears has nothing to do with it? Don't you hear that noise (or other uncommon noises) anymore?
But if it has something to do with it, I mean they became damaged due to the cover not being on the dipstick tube, Then I think you can expect further damage.

Personally, I think it just has nothing to do with it.
I do not think for those four days that you have been driving your car without that cover that those extreme conditions (the situations described by MB are very exceptional/rare) have been reached wherein it is possible that the oil pump temporarily sucks air.

BTW, which oil do you use? Cam shaft (or other "IdonotknowhowtoexplaininEnglish cam drive train" parts) wear is something that is often caused by lubrication problems.
Have you seen the cams themselves?

Patrick

RJC

Patrick,

According to the dealer the cams checked out ok and since the cam gear sprockets were changed the noise is gone. The car is new and the dealer uses Mobil One synthetic oil. I am worried about future damage. It could be a coinsidence since the cap was off? The service report said the cam gears did not have the nylon coating they should have. What do you think?

patrick

We fix about 30 to 40 MB passenger cars a day and we have never had M112/M113-engines with the cam wheel coating gone
(But I need to say that overhere the majority are diesel engines), so this is a strange kind of damage to me.

But if that noise is gone after those cam gears have been replaced you may assume it is fixed.

But personally, I think it is just a coincidence this happened at the same time you were driving around without the dipstick tube cover.

RJC

Thanks for the info Patrick