The Ultimate Rotating & Unspring Mass Reduction Thread ...
02-20-2013, 11:27 PM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
The Ultimate Rotating & Unspring Mass Reduction Thread ...
Fellow ML63 AMG Owners,
As my recent flurry of threads indicated, I have been quite busy with my ML63 project lately. I wanted to make the perfectly streetable modded ML63 AMG.
Upon my quest for the perfect ML63, I upgraded the air filters & charcoal delete (minor change), the resonator bypass, and upgraded the tune via Eurocharge's V3 Tune. The car sounds so meaty and aggressive after the resonator bypass break-in period of about 3 months had finished. After a few track days and more aggressive driving, the stock exhaust system sounds absolutely perfect. For that reason I did not want to add any more power by upgrading either the intake or exhaust system. I am already roughly 40HP/TQ more throughout the entire midrange, even though peak numbers have not changed that much (nor do I care, all the power gains needed were in the midrange).
After carefully looking at my options I realized there is only one other area of the car I could improve that would keep the car as OEM as possible while still drastically improving the overall performance, comfort, efficiency of the vehicle: Rotating & Unsprung Mass Reduction!
It is the only way to truly improve every single category of a vehicles dynamics with one simple mod (Accelerating, braking, handling feedback, Cornering, traction, ride quality, etc etc). As I started to go down this path I began to realize WHY the stock car rode so terribly rough. The ML63 AMG could possible set the production car record for most rotating unsprung mass ever, once I started weighing all the components and adding the numbers up, it was literally mind boggling
The only way to do this properly and gauge the difference was to do the process in stages: Tires, Brakes, Wheels.
Tires:
The Stock Cross Contact UHP tires are absolute pure 100% junk ... if you have an ML63 AMG, please rip these tires off as fast as humanly possible. I upgraded to the Continental DWS tires. Their 540 treadwear ensures they will last a very long time and they also drastically improved traction as well as ride quality. They rode MUCH smoother than the stock tires, and breaking traction was greatly improved. They also appeared to perform better in the wet. They are also the best option for 295/40/20 tires on the market for our application.
The most pleasant surprise of this upgrade, WEIGHT. The stock Cross Contact UHPs weight 39lbs EACH as per tireracks weight specs. The Continental DWS only weigh 35each. That means with a simply tire upgrade, you can reduce the overall unsprung rotating mass by a staggering 16lbs for all 4 rotating assemblies!
Cross Contact UHP: 39lbs
Continental DWS: 35lbs
Weight Savings: 4lbs Each, 16lbs Total!
Brakes:
This modification falls under the category of "Maintenance Modding", meaning you should upgrade them when it comes time for them to be replaced, that way you are not really wasting your stock set because they have already worn out and need to be tossed anyways. (tires could technically fall into this category as well, but you get my point).
The stock brake rotors are astronomically heavy. Each front rotor weighs a whopping 36lbs! They are not a terrible design, but since they were about to be shot I started doing research to see what possible 2-piece options there were... Sadly there were NONE.
I started to do research to see what company would possible make a set, so I contacted RacingBrake (sponsor of MBworld) and asked them to develop a set for my application. After pleading for quite some time they finally agreed to develop the first development set but it would take 12 weeks to make. The main reason I wanted upgraded brakes was to improve both braking & cooling as I track my ML63 AMG regularly and dominate the local circuits (embarrassing a lot of ridiculous sports cars in the process, you name it, I've beat it).
I also wanted to upgrade the stock pads for the fronts (as well as brake fluid). I upgraded my front pads to Stoptech pads and fluid to Castrol SRF (it will NOT boil)... but I digress, back to weight ...
The front brakes saved exactly 9lbs each (27lbs vs. 36lbs). The brakes alone made a significant difference in how the front axle absorbed bumps and reacted to changed in the road surface and undulations. After I felt how much of a difference it made, I realized I NEEDED to get rid of my stock AMG Cinderblock wheels (aka monoblocks). The stock wheels were also 36lbs. I have yet to do the rear brake rotors, but those are last on my list. They will save a whopping 10lbs each! but more to come on that ...
Stock Front Rotors: 36lbs
RacingBrake 2-piece: 27lbs
Front Rotor savings: 9lbs, 18lbs Front Axle
Rear Rotor Savings: 10lbs, 20lbs Rear Axle
Wheels:
After months worth of looking, I wanted to buy my ML63 a gift after 3 years of amazing ownership as a way of rewarding her for her loyal service. The stock wheels had to go and I wanted to upgrade to the lightest possible best looking option in the stock diameter size. First I looked at ADV1 5.1s as that's my favorite design, but I saw that Forgestar had an almost identical flowformed forged set for 1/3rd the cost (roughly $1800 shipped w/ bolts compared to almost $6k for the ADV1s). I ordered them in custom 40mm offset too for a better stance and improved handling as well .
The Forgestars shaved 9lbs PER WHEEL, for a total of 36lbs total. The forgestar by wheels have made the largest difference so far (also the most weight reduction so far of course). Everything about the way the car handles, behaves, reacts, performs has been greatly improved & sped up. honestly it feels more like a C63 than an ML63 now. The Air suspension has particularly loved the added changes. It reacts so quickly now compared to before when it felt like the wheels were floating in the air over big bumps unable to react quickly enough to the changes in road surface conditions.
Between the tires, wheels & front brakes... the car genuinely feels like it has lost a full 500lbs out of the car (no exaggeration). I realized now that rotating unsprung mass (especially for those cars out there that are still under warranty) is the absolute best way to modify your car because NONE of the modifications will violate your warranty as they are all maintenance wear & tear replacement items anyways. You can have all the benefits of performance upgrades without any of the negative drawbacks.
Furthermore, the Air suspension settings feel much better now and the changes more pronounced between each. Imagine as if there was one level of sportiness more than "Sport" and one comfort setting level higher than "comfort". At each level you get one level more sportiness than before, with one level higher in comfort (if that makes any sense). Before I could feel every single expansion joint and tiny imperfection in the road. Now I literally glide over them seamlessly as if I were in an S-class. It has made the ride absolutely sublime for this 5300lbs behemoth. They say every pound of unsprung rotating mass reduction equals roughly 4 lbs of body mass reduction. Some say the effects are even greater than that, but I can assure you, you will feel it many times more than anything else you possibly could. Don't worry about reducing the weight anywhere else, you don't need to. Concentrate all your effort on the rotating assemblies, your car will love you for it.
Efficiency:
I still need more time on this subject, but I will provide a basic overview thus far. The stock car avg 12.4 city, and had a peak sustained hwy mileage of 19.2 (absolutely hypermiling the hell out of it for 50+ miles)
After the eurocharged tune that dropped down to about 11.8mpg and 17.2mpg (it is a thirsty tune, but worth ever penny)
with mass reduction modifications after 600 miles so far: 13.4MPG city, back up to 19.1 MPG .... WITH the tune. As you can see the rotating mass is starting to have a significant effect on fuel efficiency so over time these mods should pay for themselves in fuel efficiency alone (probably 2-3 years or something, I would have to calculate it out).
Total Mass Reduction thus far:
Tires: 16 lbs
Brakes: 38 lbs
Wheels: 36 lbs
Total: 90 lbs
Total w/ rear rotors: 90 lbs of rotating/unsprung mass reduction!!!
I hope you find this thread as informative and helpful as possible. If you really want to make a difference in the way your car brakes, accelerates, handles, corners, ride quality & etc.
Not to mention, you will look damn good doing it
As my recent flurry of threads indicated, I have been quite busy with my ML63 project lately. I wanted to make the perfectly streetable modded ML63 AMG.
Upon my quest for the perfect ML63, I upgraded the air filters & charcoal delete (minor change), the resonator bypass, and upgraded the tune via Eurocharge's V3 Tune. The car sounds so meaty and aggressive after the resonator bypass break-in period of about 3 months had finished. After a few track days and more aggressive driving, the stock exhaust system sounds absolutely perfect. For that reason I did not want to add any more power by upgrading either the intake or exhaust system. I am already roughly 40HP/TQ more throughout the entire midrange, even though peak numbers have not changed that much (nor do I care, all the power gains needed were in the midrange).
After carefully looking at my options I realized there is only one other area of the car I could improve that would keep the car as OEM as possible while still drastically improving the overall performance, comfort, efficiency of the vehicle: Rotating & Unsprung Mass Reduction!
It is the only way to truly improve every single category of a vehicles dynamics with one simple mod (Accelerating, braking, handling feedback, Cornering, traction, ride quality, etc etc). As I started to go down this path I began to realize WHY the stock car rode so terribly rough. The ML63 AMG could possible set the production car record for most rotating unsprung mass ever, once I started weighing all the components and adding the numbers up, it was literally mind boggling
The only way to do this properly and gauge the difference was to do the process in stages: Tires, Brakes, Wheels.
Tires:
The Stock Cross Contact UHP tires are absolute pure 100% junk ... if you have an ML63 AMG, please rip these tires off as fast as humanly possible. I upgraded to the Continental DWS tires. Their 540 treadwear ensures they will last a very long time and they also drastically improved traction as well as ride quality. They rode MUCH smoother than the stock tires, and breaking traction was greatly improved. They also appeared to perform better in the wet. They are also the best option for 295/40/20 tires on the market for our application.
The most pleasant surprise of this upgrade, WEIGHT. The stock Cross Contact UHPs weight 39lbs EACH as per tireracks weight specs. The Continental DWS only weigh 35each. That means with a simply tire upgrade, you can reduce the overall unsprung rotating mass by a staggering 16lbs for all 4 rotating assemblies!
Cross Contact UHP: 39lbs
Continental DWS: 35lbs
Weight Savings: 4lbs Each, 16lbs Total!
Brakes:
This modification falls under the category of "Maintenance Modding", meaning you should upgrade them when it comes time for them to be replaced, that way you are not really wasting your stock set because they have already worn out and need to be tossed anyways. (tires could technically fall into this category as well, but you get my point).
The stock brake rotors are astronomically heavy. Each front rotor weighs a whopping 36lbs! They are not a terrible design, but since they were about to be shot I started doing research to see what possible 2-piece options there were... Sadly there were NONE.
I started to do research to see what company would possible make a set, so I contacted RacingBrake (sponsor of MBworld) and asked them to develop a set for my application. After pleading for quite some time they finally agreed to develop the first development set but it would take 12 weeks to make. The main reason I wanted upgraded brakes was to improve both braking & cooling as I track my ML63 AMG regularly and dominate the local circuits (embarrassing a lot of ridiculous sports cars in the process, you name it, I've beat it).
I also wanted to upgrade the stock pads for the fronts (as well as brake fluid). I upgraded my front pads to Stoptech pads and fluid to Castrol SRF (it will NOT boil)... but I digress, back to weight ...
The front brakes saved exactly 9lbs each (27lbs vs. 36lbs). The brakes alone made a significant difference in how the front axle absorbed bumps and reacted to changed in the road surface and undulations. After I felt how much of a difference it made, I realized I NEEDED to get rid of my stock AMG Cinderblock wheels (aka monoblocks). The stock wheels were also 36lbs. I have yet to do the rear brake rotors, but those are last on my list. They will save a whopping 10lbs each! but more to come on that ...
Stock Front Rotors: 36lbs
RacingBrake 2-piece: 27lbs
Front Rotor savings: 9lbs, 18lbs Front Axle
Rear Rotor Savings: 10lbs, 20lbs Rear Axle
Wheels:
After months worth of looking, I wanted to buy my ML63 a gift after 3 years of amazing ownership as a way of rewarding her for her loyal service. The stock wheels had to go and I wanted to upgrade to the lightest possible best looking option in the stock diameter size. First I looked at ADV1 5.1s as that's my favorite design, but I saw that Forgestar had an almost identical flowformed forged set for 1/3rd the cost (roughly $1800 shipped w/ bolts compared to almost $6k for the ADV1s). I ordered them in custom 40mm offset too for a better stance and improved handling as well .
The Forgestars shaved 9lbs PER WHEEL, for a total of 36lbs total. The forgestar by wheels have made the largest difference so far (also the most weight reduction so far of course). Everything about the way the car handles, behaves, reacts, performs has been greatly improved & sped up. honestly it feels more like a C63 than an ML63 now. The Air suspension has particularly loved the added changes. It reacts so quickly now compared to before when it felt like the wheels were floating in the air over big bumps unable to react quickly enough to the changes in road surface conditions.
Between the tires, wheels & front brakes... the car genuinely feels like it has lost a full 500lbs out of the car (no exaggeration). I realized now that rotating unsprung mass (especially for those cars out there that are still under warranty) is the absolute best way to modify your car because NONE of the modifications will violate your warranty as they are all maintenance wear & tear replacement items anyways. You can have all the benefits of performance upgrades without any of the negative drawbacks.
Furthermore, the Air suspension settings feel much better now and the changes more pronounced between each. Imagine as if there was one level of sportiness more than "Sport" and one comfort setting level higher than "comfort". At each level you get one level more sportiness than before, with one level higher in comfort (if that makes any sense). Before I could feel every single expansion joint and tiny imperfection in the road. Now I literally glide over them seamlessly as if I were in an S-class. It has made the ride absolutely sublime for this 5300lbs behemoth. They say every pound of unsprung rotating mass reduction equals roughly 4 lbs of body mass reduction. Some say the effects are even greater than that, but I can assure you, you will feel it many times more than anything else you possibly could. Don't worry about reducing the weight anywhere else, you don't need to. Concentrate all your effort on the rotating assemblies, your car will love you for it.
Efficiency:
I still need more time on this subject, but I will provide a basic overview thus far. The stock car avg 12.4 city, and had a peak sustained hwy mileage of 19.2 (absolutely hypermiling the hell out of it for 50+ miles)
After the eurocharged tune that dropped down to about 11.8mpg and 17.2mpg (it is a thirsty tune, but worth ever penny)
with mass reduction modifications after 600 miles so far: 13.4MPG city, back up to 19.1 MPG .... WITH the tune. As you can see the rotating mass is starting to have a significant effect on fuel efficiency so over time these mods should pay for themselves in fuel efficiency alone (probably 2-3 years or something, I would have to calculate it out).
Total Mass Reduction thus far:
Tires: 16 lbs
Brakes: 38 lbs
Wheels: 36 lbs
Total: 90 lbs
Total w/ rear rotors: 90 lbs of rotating/unsprung mass reduction!!!
I hope you find this thread as informative and helpful as possible. If you really want to make a difference in the way your car brakes, accelerates, handles, corners, ride quality & etc.
Not to mention, you will look damn good doing it
Last edited by ML63 AMG; 09-21-2015 at 06:03 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by ML63 AMG:
Karaya Eins (09-12-2018),
Wizard Studio (02-28-2021)
02-23-2013, 01:02 PM
#3
Super Member
Thread Starter
It's a waste honestly, you won't feel sprung weight reduction at all. You would need at least 350-400 lb reduction to equal the same effect of the mods I listed above... Exhausts save like 20-30 lbs at most, it's not even a remote comparison. Save your money for reducing rotating unsprung mass, it is the king of all weight reduction mods.
Hope that helps
Hope that helps
02-23-2013, 09:08 PM
#4
Super Member
Damn sick post Man! Thanks a lot for all the info... I Will for sure use some of your tips to tune my ml63 w166. Btw i have Never seen so much usefull/precise info thanks mate. Te
Last edited by EVOII_Racer; 02-23-2013 at 09:29 PM.
02-23-2013, 09:31 PM
#5
Super Member
Damn sick post Man! Thanks a lot for all the info... I Will for sure use some of your tips to tune my ml63 w166. Btw i have Never seen so much usefull/precise info thanks mate
which model of forgestar rims did u buy?
which model of forgestar rims did u buy?
Last edited by EVOII_Racer; 02-23-2013 at 09:35 PM.
02-23-2013, 11:47 PM
#6
Super Member
Thread Starter
Thank you for the kind words, just tying to help out the ML63 community with some good information & specs (which can be very hard to find).
The exact model wheels are called: CF5. (for 5 spoke)
Of all the wheels I looked at they best fit the character of the car. The lug nuts were from Staff@World mbworld user member. They lugs are anodized black 28mm long conical seat made in JAPAN by Rays Engineering. Make sure you specify you want the ones made In Japan by rays, they are way stronger than the cheap Chinese chrome bolts. They cost $120, but are worth every penny.
Stock wheels will sell for $500-900 depending on condition without tires. With tires easily $1300+. Just remember to swap over the TPMS sensors!! That's why I kept stock tires, they had to come off anyways to swap the TPMS sensors. Be sure to make which wheel goes to which corner so you do not mix up the sensors (they must be corner matched)
Next set of tires I will probably run 315mm Michelin pilot super sports
The exact model wheels are called: CF5. (for 5 spoke)
Of all the wheels I looked at they best fit the character of the car. The lug nuts were from Staff@World mbworld user member. They lugs are anodized black 28mm long conical seat made in JAPAN by Rays Engineering. Make sure you specify you want the ones made In Japan by rays, they are way stronger than the cheap Chinese chrome bolts. They cost $120, but are worth every penny.
Stock wheels will sell for $500-900 depending on condition without tires. With tires easily $1300+. Just remember to swap over the TPMS sensors!! That's why I kept stock tires, they had to come off anyways to swap the TPMS sensors. Be sure to make which wheel goes to which corner so you do not mix up the sensors (they must be corner matched)
Next set of tires I will probably run 315mm Michelin pilot super sports
02-24-2013, 10:21 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thank you for the kind words, just tying to help out the ML63 community with some good information & specs (which can be very hard to find).
The exact model wheels are called: CF5. (for 5 spoke)
Of all the wheels I looked at they best fit the character of the car. The lug nuts were from Staff@World mbworld user member. They lugs are anodized black 28mm long conical seat made in JAPAN by Rays Engineering. Make sure you specify you want the ones made In Japan by rays, they are way stronger than the cheap Chinese chrome bolts. They cost $120, but are worth every penny.
Stock wheels will sell for $500-900 depending on condition without tires. With tires easily $1300+. Just remember to swap over the TPMS sensors!! That's why I kept stock tires, they had to come off anyways to swap the TPMS sensors. Be sure to make which wheel goes to which corner so you do not mix up the sensors (they must be corner matched)
Next set of tires I will probably run 315mm Michelin pilot super sports
The exact model wheels are called: CF5. (for 5 spoke)
Of all the wheels I looked at they best fit the character of the car. The lug nuts were from Staff@World mbworld user member. They lugs are anodized black 28mm long conical seat made in JAPAN by Rays Engineering. Make sure you specify you want the ones made In Japan by rays, they are way stronger than the cheap Chinese chrome bolts. They cost $120, but are worth every penny.
Stock wheels will sell for $500-900 depending on condition without tires. With tires easily $1300+. Just remember to swap over the TPMS sensors!! That's why I kept stock tires, they had to come off anyways to swap the TPMS sensors. Be sure to make which wheel goes to which corner so you do not mix up the sensors (they must be corner matched)
Next set of tires I will probably run 315mm Michelin pilot super sports
Maybe you can give some guidance on weight loss for the 2012-13 ML 63.
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02-25-2013, 10:20 AM
#8
Super Member
Thread Starter
Actually, the Michelin Pilot Super sports would save an additional 2lbs per tire due to their new Kevlar band construction. They are 33 lbs each and grip way better.
The only real downside is price.
The only real downside is price.
03-03-2013, 11:08 AM
#9
Super Member
Thread Starter
Long term update:
I have done almost 1500 miles since my review and the gas mileage efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG @ avg of 28 MPH. (city/hwy mix). The previous was 11.8 thereby makin a total efficiency gain of 1.6 MPG.
That means per tank I am getting roughly an additional 32-36 miles of driving just by switching wheels. What's interesting is that comes out to almost 1 mile per Pound of weight removed from the wheels.
To put it more clear cut terms... 36 lbs of wheel weight removal has yielded a 13.6% improvement in fuel efficiency!!
Even more so, that means after 100 fill ups (or roughly 2 years worth of driving), the wheels will pay for themselves in fuel efficiency and will essentially be FREE!
Never underestimate the effects of rotating unsprung mass reduction!
I have done almost 1500 miles since my review and the gas mileage efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG @ avg of 28 MPH. (city/hwy mix). The previous was 11.8 thereby makin a total efficiency gain of 1.6 MPG.
That means per tank I am getting roughly an additional 32-36 miles of driving just by switching wheels. What's interesting is that comes out to almost 1 mile per Pound of weight removed from the wheels.
To put it more clear cut terms... 36 lbs of wheel weight removal has yielded a 13.6% improvement in fuel efficiency!!
Even more so, that means after 100 fill ups (or roughly 2 years worth of driving), the wheels will pay for themselves in fuel efficiency and will essentially be FREE!
Never underestimate the effects of rotating unsprung mass reduction!
04-01-2013, 11:54 AM
#10
Super Member
Thread Starter
Another long term update:
Hey guys, I have had a chance to drive the car more and the long term fuel efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG after 2,500 miles of driving. It fluctuates from 13.2-13.4 over the past 500 miles depending if I am on freeway or city driving. Now it seems to be stable at 13.4. This is a huge jump up from 11.8 before for combined driving and I actually notice longer periods between fill ups.
So in about 2 years the wheels & tires will completely pay themselves off and be essentially free. Not bad for such a drastic change.
Also, I have officially ordered my rear 2-piece rotors from RacingBrake. Each rotor will shave an astonishing 10lbs per rotor and will push my over all weight reduction to 90lb!! (up from 70lbs)
I think the rear rotors may have the biggest impact on fuel efficiency because the 4WD system will send most of its power to the rear wheels under daily driving conditions do it should push that number hopefully up to 13.8-14.0 MPG. If I can get over 14 MPG, that would be amazing.
Anyways, just wanted to keep everyone updated on the project, it is nearing fruition
Hey guys, I have had a chance to drive the car more and the long term fuel efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG after 2,500 miles of driving. It fluctuates from 13.2-13.4 over the past 500 miles depending if I am on freeway or city driving. Now it seems to be stable at 13.4. This is a huge jump up from 11.8 before for combined driving and I actually notice longer periods between fill ups.
So in about 2 years the wheels & tires will completely pay themselves off and be essentially free. Not bad for such a drastic change.
Also, I have officially ordered my rear 2-piece rotors from RacingBrake. Each rotor will shave an astonishing 10lbs per rotor and will push my over all weight reduction to 90lb!! (up from 70lbs)
I think the rear rotors may have the biggest impact on fuel efficiency because the 4WD system will send most of its power to the rear wheels under daily driving conditions do it should push that number hopefully up to 13.8-14.0 MPG. If I can get over 14 MPG, that would be amazing.
Anyways, just wanted to keep everyone updated on the project, it is nearing fruition
04-01-2013, 05:24 PM
#11
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Another long term update:
Hey guys, I have had a chance to drive the car more and the long term fuel efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG after 2,500 miles of driving. It fluctuates from 13.2-13.4 over the past 500 miles depending if I am on freeway or city driving. Now it seems to be stable at 13.4. This is a huge jump up from 11.8 before for combined driving and I actually notice longer periods between fill ups.
So in about 2 years the wheels & tires will completely pay themselves off and be essentially free. Not bad for such a drastic change.
Also, I have officially ordered my rear 2-piece rotors from RacingBrake. Each rotor will shave an astonishing 10lbs per rotor and will push my over all weight reduction to 90lb!! (up from 70lbs)
I think the rear rotors may have the biggest impact on fuel efficiency because the 4WD system will send most of its power to the rear wheels under daily driving conditions do it should push that number hopefully up to 13.8-14.0 MPG. If I can get over 14 MPG, that would be amazing.
Anyways, just wanted to keep everyone updated on the project, it is nearing fruition
Hey guys, I have had a chance to drive the car more and the long term fuel efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG after 2,500 miles of driving. It fluctuates from 13.2-13.4 over the past 500 miles depending if I am on freeway or city driving. Now it seems to be stable at 13.4. This is a huge jump up from 11.8 before for combined driving and I actually notice longer periods between fill ups.
So in about 2 years the wheels & tires will completely pay themselves off and be essentially free. Not bad for such a drastic change.
Also, I have officially ordered my rear 2-piece rotors from RacingBrake. Each rotor will shave an astonishing 10lbs per rotor and will push my over all weight reduction to 90lb!! (up from 70lbs)
I think the rear rotors may have the biggest impact on fuel efficiency because the 4WD system will send most of its power to the rear wheels under daily driving conditions do it should push that number hopefully up to 13.8-14.0 MPG. If I can get over 14 MPG, that would be amazing.
Anyways, just wanted to keep everyone updated on the project, it is nearing fruition
RacingBrake is committed to putting diet on Mercedes Brakes. We like to thank you for your supports, and will continue expanding our coverage on MB.
The rear two piece rotors shall be available in about 6-8 weeks. Considering the duty and weight of the vehicle, we made the rear 28mm thick (over OE's 26mm), however we still expect to trim the weight by 8-8.5 lbs per rotor thanks to our composite hats technology (light weight aluminum shell with iron insert to retain OE's emergency brake)
http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...EAR-p/2223.htm
The following users liked this post:
Karaya Eins (09-12-2018)
04-04-2013, 05:29 PM
#12
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Another long term update:
Hey guys, I have had a chance to drive the car more and the long term fuel efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG after 2,500 miles of driving. It fluctuates from 13.2-13.4 over the past 500 miles depending if I am on freeway or city driving. Now it seems to be stable at 13.4. This is a huge jump up from 11.8 before for combined driving and I actually notice longer periods between fill ups.
So in about 2 years the wheels & tires will completely pay themselves off and be essentially free. Not bad for such a drastic change.
Also, I have officially ordered my rear 2-piece rotors from RacingBrake. Each rotor will shave an astonishing 10lbs per rotor and will push my over all weight reduction to 90lb!! (up from 70lbs)
I think the rear rotors may have the biggest impact on fuel efficiency because the 4WD system will send most of its power to the rear wheels under daily driving conditions do it should push that number hopefully up to 13.8-14.0 MPG. If I can get over 14 MPG, that would be amazing.
Anyways, just wanted to keep everyone updated on the project, it is nearing fruition
Hey guys, I have had a chance to drive the car more and the long term fuel efficiency has stabilized at 13.4 MPG after 2,500 miles of driving. It fluctuates from 13.2-13.4 over the past 500 miles depending if I am on freeway or city driving. Now it seems to be stable at 13.4. This is a huge jump up from 11.8 before for combined driving and I actually notice longer periods between fill ups.
So in about 2 years the wheels & tires will completely pay themselves off and be essentially free. Not bad for such a drastic change.
Also, I have officially ordered my rear 2-piece rotors from RacingBrake. Each rotor will shave an astonishing 10lbs per rotor and will push my over all weight reduction to 90lb!! (up from 70lbs)
I think the rear rotors may have the biggest impact on fuel efficiency because the 4WD system will send most of its power to the rear wheels under daily driving conditions do it should push that number hopefully up to 13.8-14.0 MPG. If I can get over 14 MPG, that would be amazing.
Anyways, just wanted to keep everyone updated on the project, it is nearing fruition
and as you suggested the overall impact shall be evaluated again when our rear two piece rotors are installed.
We expect to shave 8.5 lbs per rotor (OE=25.3 vs. RB's 16.8 even with 2mm thicker).
So as you can imagine I am just as anxious as you are to have these rear rotors made.
In connection with this, we just released a "diet" version front rotors for GT-R (reduce thickness to 30mm from OE's 34mm) as we were requested by some drag racers & street drivers to make these available, and I shall post your review there for them to read.
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/..._fromsearch__1
04-05-2013, 05:56 PM
#13
Super Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, I can't wait to reset my MPG counter and test again with the new lighter rear rotors as well. I think 13.8-14.0 should be realistic given the gains already achieved. The 2007-2011 rear rotors are larger so the mass reduction is more switching over to 2 piece design.
OEMs would kill for these kinds of MPG % gains so this is definitely not a joke
OEMs would kill for these kinds of MPG % gains so this is definitely not a joke
04-09-2013, 10:13 AM
#14
Former Vendor of MBWorld
ML63, Your excellent fuel efficiency evaluation review is quoted in GT-R light weight rotors thread here:
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...0#entry1145149
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...0#entry1145149
05-18-2013, 07:40 AM
#15
Super Member
ML63 i have two questions:
1. Have you tried the vredestein suv ultrac sessanta tires which are the lightest tires available from what i was told?
2. I can' t decide between 21 or 22 rims? If we consider a)72kg (158 pounds or 144lbs) of unsprung weight for the 21 and b)to get the best Time around a racetrack...it makes a big difference correct? 21 are a no brainer correct?
1991 Mercedes 2.5-16s Evolution II (engine blew up needs to be fixed!)
2005 Mercedes C55 AMG -> V58 VATH engine 440hp , 5.766 ccm engine, Max. torque: 630 Nm at 3.900 rpm
2013 Mercedes W166 ML bi-turbo 63amg -> V63S Vath, 630hp and 930 Nm, Vath carbon fenders and interior, Brabus butterfly exhaust
Mercedes C55 V58 VATH
Mercedes M63 w166 AMG by VATH (v63s)
1. Have you tried the vredestein suv ultrac sessanta tires which are the lightest tires available from what i was told?
2. I can' t decide between 21 or 22 rims? If we consider a)72kg (158 pounds or 144lbs) of unsprung weight for the 21 and b)to get the best Time around a racetrack...it makes a big difference correct? 21 are a no brainer correct?
1991 Mercedes 2.5-16s Evolution II (engine blew up needs to be fixed!)
2005 Mercedes C55 AMG -> V58 VATH engine 440hp , 5.766 ccm engine, Max. torque: 630 Nm at 3.900 rpm
2013 Mercedes W166 ML bi-turbo 63amg -> V63S Vath, 630hp and 930 Nm, Vath carbon fenders and interior, Brabus butterfly exhaust
Mercedes C55 V58 VATH
Mercedes M63 w166 AMG by VATH (v63s)
Last edited by EVOII_Racer; 05-18-2013 at 07:49 AM.
05-20-2013, 01:39 AM
#16
Super Member
Thread Starter
I think going bigger than 20" is a bad idea for performance reasons. Also, you'd annot just go by basic tire weight. You must also factor in that certain tires have load ratings that are too low. You need a tire that can support the super heavy weight of our cars.
05-20-2013, 08:08 AM
#17
Super Member
Ok thanks Man
The Vrefestein made a SUV version for us
In 2009 they were voted best tires for a high performance suv by autobild
However its a UHP tires so it might not last long...
The Vrefestein made a SUV version for us
In 2009 they were voted best tires for a high performance suv by autobild
However its a UHP tires so it might not last long...
Last edited by EVOII_Racer; 05-20-2013 at 08:16 AM.
01-27-2014, 02:05 PM
#18
Super Member
Thread Starter
Update:
1/4 Mile results from Rotating Unsprung Mass Reduction & Eurocharged V4 tune:
https://mbworld.org/forums/ml55-amg-...ml#post5921475
(specifically notice the very low 60ft times, impressive for such a large 5300lb SUV. This is due directly to the significant reduction in rotating unsprung mass).
1/4 Mile results from Rotating Unsprung Mass Reduction & Eurocharged V4 tune:
https://mbworld.org/forums/ml55-amg-...ml#post5921475
(specifically notice the very low 60ft times, impressive for such a large 5300lb SUV. This is due directly to the significant reduction in rotating unsprung mass).
03-17-2014, 01:41 PM
#19
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Philippines
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08 C63, 07 ML63, 92 500E, 70 300SEL 6.3, 63 220 SEB Conv. Sold 02 G500, 97 E50,92 C280,71 280SE 4.5
Thanks for the info, I replaced my 20's for the split spoke 21's I will weigh them tom. I wish I read this thread before I replaced my rotors , but will probably start with my rears cause they are still the orig rotors. Next up is to find the lightest 21" tires for this thing 
09-21-2015, 06:18 PM
#23
Super Member
Thread Starter
Hey Guys,
Just wanted to update you on the mass reduction. Since the time when I successfully managed to reduce my overall unsprung/rotating mass on my ML63 by a whopping 90lbs (which I am pretty sure is still an MBworld record for unsprung rotating mass), even more products have come out to improve the overall braking performance of our cars.
using Racing Brakes new 390/390mm setup, you could in theory reduce your unsprung/rotating mass by up to an astonishing 110-120lbs. In theory, if you really wanted to go to the absolute max extreme, you could run 4 390mm carbon rotors with that setup which would max out your weight reduction gains even more than 120lbs if you can believe that.
As much as I want to upgrade to that setup, Sadly I will be selling my ML63 AMG soon
. It is truly the best SUV I have (and will probably ever own), but my eyes are now firmly set on the new body style W218 CLS63 AMG.
I will however continue my quest for upsprung / rotating mass reduction on my CLS63 AMG. Although probably will not be able to beat my 90lb record, I do plan on running the Racinbrake Carbon Ceramic 2-piece rotors, stainles steel lines, Titanium lugs, and Forgestar wheels on my new setup to help maximum the perforamance of the new car.
I will be performing before/After dynos of the Ceramic rotors (YES, that will be a BIG writeup), and also of the wheels & tires setup to finally put some hard concrete numbers on rotating unsprung mass as a legitimate power modification. My goal is to find the exact "wheel HP/TQ per lbs ratio" down to the exact decimal point (XX.XX HP per LBS Reduced) to settle that debate that has been raging for years once and for all . I look forward to writing that review for the Mercedes community in the coming few months once I get my new toy.
If any one is interested (or knows anyone who might be) in my ML63 feel free to shoot me a PM. I want to make sure my car finds a great home for someone to truly appreciate it. The car has more money invested into it than most and is still under warranty for another 6 month.
Its been a lot of fun guys... looking forward to seeing what the next adventure brings
All the best,
ML63 AMG
Just wanted to update you on the mass reduction. Since the time when I successfully managed to reduce my overall unsprung/rotating mass on my ML63 by a whopping 90lbs (which I am pretty sure is still an MBworld record for unsprung rotating mass), even more products have come out to improve the overall braking performance of our cars.
using Racing Brakes new 390/390mm setup, you could in theory reduce your unsprung/rotating mass by up to an astonishing 110-120lbs. In theory, if you really wanted to go to the absolute max extreme, you could run 4 390mm carbon rotors with that setup which would max out your weight reduction gains even more than 120lbs if you can believe that.
As much as I want to upgrade to that setup, Sadly I will be selling my ML63 AMG soon
. It is truly the best SUV I have (and will probably ever own), but my eyes are now firmly set on the new body style W218 CLS63 AMG. I will however continue my quest for upsprung / rotating mass reduction on my CLS63 AMG. Although probably will not be able to beat my 90lb record, I do plan on running the Racinbrake Carbon Ceramic 2-piece rotors, stainles steel lines, Titanium lugs, and Forgestar wheels on my new setup to help maximum the perforamance of the new car.
I will be performing before/After dynos of the Ceramic rotors (YES, that will be a BIG writeup), and also of the wheels & tires setup to finally put some hard concrete numbers on rotating unsprung mass as a legitimate power modification. My goal is to find the exact "wheel HP/TQ per lbs ratio" down to the exact decimal point (XX.XX HP per LBS Reduced) to settle that debate that has been raging for years once and for all . I look forward to writing that review for the Mercedes community in the coming few months once I get my new toy.
If any one is interested (or knows anyone who might be) in my ML63 feel free to shoot me a PM. I want to make sure my car finds a great home for someone to truly appreciate it. The car has more money invested into it than most and is still under warranty for another 6 month.
Its been a lot of fun guys... looking forward to seeing what the next adventure brings
All the best,
ML63 AMG
Last edited by ML63 AMG; 09-21-2015 at 06:21 PM.
11-13-2015, 11:59 AM
#25
Super Member
Thread Starter
Hello Brendan,
I will be within the next few months most likely yes. Its very hard to let a car this amazing go, I am still having second thoughts about selling it. Nothing comes even close, not even the best new SUVs on the market.
The car is still under warranty as well until February.
I will be within the next few months most likely yes. Its very hard to let a car this amazing go, I am still having second thoughts about selling it. Nothing comes even close, not even the best new SUVs on the market.
The car is still under warranty as well until February.
