Germancar1

Nope, I responded because your posts are incredibly wrong and usually minus the facts and I (and others) get sick of you passing off your BS as facts.

You keep repeating the same thing over and over and that is what got you banned at GCF, and you never saw the problem with it.

M

K-A

Or I'm simply a genius.

Uhh, that was PRECISELY in reference to the subject at hand and was a dig at BMW at that. The 5 Series test reviews were brought up in TWO threads by my personal troll. There's no reason why we should be debating some meaningless test between E Classes and 5 Series' here. You ladies & gents need to relax a bit and stop treating me so importantly, stop obsessing about "me", I don't know why my opinion and perception matters so much to you.

Archaetype

While companies known for economic cars like Kia and Hyundai are expanding upon their luxury range, Mercedes (which is arguably the world's most valued brand in luxury automotives) is making moves that reflect a company that's trying to capture the lower-end markets. What this does for the prestige of the brand? We'll have to see.

The CLA is in the same market as the VW Jetta, Mercedes may have an ambition to be competitive at every price point the problem is when you pay for half a Benz, you get 'half a Benz' and that's not the high-end luxury that the brand is synonymous with. When you combine that with the unveiling of the new C-class, now you have the C-class infringing upon S-class turf . . it doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that this will ultimately have an impact on the brand's prestige

K-A

Well put, and I agree. It's generally common logic and in history, many prestige-brands have gone this route and sacrificed prestige along the way, though maybe they gained profitability and viability from it so the plan was executed as intended. I personally don't think M-B will be the exception and feel it's a dangerous step to take from arguably the most historically cachet-full automotive brand, but time will tell.

Quadcammer

while the thread had nothing to do with BMW, and therefore your comments were entirely not relevant, I'll play.

Why are you incapable of not taking the bait? Are you that childish?

K-A

YES, my comments were very relevant. I was using BMW's mistake towards the 7 Series by making the 5 Series look just like it to compare to what M-B is now doing to the S Class. NOWHERE (especially lately) on this Forum have I brought up out of nowhere a meaningless test between E's and 5's, therefore the O/T have not been the least bit due to me. In MY OWN thread about the W222 I have 2-3 guys TRYING to bait me into an argument, but I haven't even given in, go read for yourself. I have no responsibility to be an adult amongst children. If you don't like the banter, then don't fuel the fire. I have a troll insulting and baiting "me" in multiple threads, breaking almost every rule in the TOU, and I'm the one to blame? Pff.

Germancar1

Nonsense. The 190E didn't do anything like that to the S-Class back in the day so why would the C class impact the S-Class today? How in the world is a brand's prestige going to be hurt when you come out with the best cars in their respective segments? Other than the sheer look of the C, it does nothing to the S-Class. The same brand is going even higher with the more S-Class variants to cover some of the Maybach market, and how is the C going to hurt that? Doesn't make sense.


M

MBNUT1

Here it is boys. And I like it!!!

http://paultan.org/2013/11/17/w205-c-class-undisguised/

Wolfman

Front looks like an E-Class with smaller S-class headlights. Interesting is that you can see the HUD in the pics...

K-A

I think it looks mostly really good but it destroys the presence of the S Class. It looks exactly like one. That part is a shame but M-B probably doesn't care as the C is more important to their bottom line, due to its mass volume and accessibility.

Tjdehya

OMG, I knew it. Mercedes is moving to the BMW/Audi/McDonalds/Burger King design menu.
How would you like your Sedan? Small Medium or Large?
Would you like a SUV with that order? Small Medium or Large?

I have to say that that was one of the minor things that I didn't like about BMW/Audi... Oh well...

Germancar1

Until the next E comes out (and if it looks the same) that isn't really the case at all.

M

ImInPA

The size difference is so great between a C and an S, it is hard to imagine the new C impacting the S at all. There will always be those folks out there that cant tell the difference between anything with a star on the hood or grill. This is a silly thread. I hope the wheelbase is longer on the new C and that they earmarked the additional room for the rear seat. Add in a diesel/4matic option, and, you have a near perfect car in a perfect size.

Tjdehya

If you look at the front end of the C and then look at the front on an E then you will see that they look pretty much identical.
The only reason why the front of the FL E doesnt look like the S is because the E is basterdized mix of the old style with the new.
They got rid of the Quad lights on the FL E for that very reason. When the W213 is released I’m pretty sure that it will be a Medium sized S class.
I wasn’t implying that Mercedes is already giving us a McD's/B-King menu... I was implying that it was coming. We now have the Small and Large, in a couple years we will have a medium.

While the C class of previous generations have looked similar to the S class. This generation is a direct S class copy. Just like BMW/Audi...

K-A

The interesting thing is that M-B went from having the most distinct-from-each-other lineup and then with this C and S they're more homogenous than even BMW and Audi. I mean the C and S look EXACTLY alike. M-B seems to want to push this fact themselves as these pics seem to be identical to certain promotional S Class shots they did. M-B fans have criticized Audi and BMW for years for having a homogenous lineup, so it'll be interesting to see the response this generates now that M-B has brought back aesthetic homogeny after years of "experimentation" to put it mildly.

There's no doubt it'll impact the S's authority on the roads. Size alone isn't enough to convince the common auto-plebian. The S will naturally always look more grand and special due to its sheer size, but the design itself is simply an enlarged C Class, no other way around that. And when C's outnumber S's 100-1 on the roads, there's no doubt that the design language will be more attributed to the C than it is the S (if the S was released several years before the C that may not be the case, but considering they're launching at almost the same time, the C will "own" this design language, namely to the commoner who doesn't follow Auto Forums to know that the S "technically" launched the language several months before the C did).

MBNUT1

The size will now be current A4 size moving from 180 to 185 inches in length. I agree about perfect size assuming as you propose the back seat sees most of that additional length

MBNUT1

Anybody who has the means to plunk down 100 large for an S class isn't worrying about the fact that the C looks like it. Nothing wrong with a line-up of similarly beautiful cars. Audi's (BMW's) problem isn't that they look alike it's that they don't look that good save the A7. Having said that this car could help A4 sales because I expect that the A4 will become a better value proposition. It's incredible what Mercedes is trying to get for the C Class's now and the larger size coupled with the CLA is only going to drive the price up.

Germancar1

Just like I stated before, you don't know what the next E will look like. Just because the front intakes are the same doesn't mean the rest of the car looks the same. You won't know until 2016, until its just guesswork. The E has always had its own look. The FL E is caught in the middle now, truly new look won't come until 2016-17.

M

Germancar1

It's amazing how you come up with such misinformation. The S is on the road now, the C is about a year away yet in your mind the C will own this look because they're launching around the same time? What are you talking about? A year is not the same time. Not to mention the CLA is out now also. The S will be everywhere by this time next year and anyone with common sense about cars will know which came first.

Even if the C does own the look, its still a Mercedes look. What is the problem? What harm is it going to do to Mercedes?


M

K-A

The timing of both cars is close enough to where the S won't "solidify" itself as the "originator" of the design. When there are like 100 to 1 C to S' on the road, the look will be the "C Class look". Yes, it's a Mercedes look, but Mercedes used to be more-so identified from the top down, now the lines are getting muddled there as the S didn't really launch the design idiom (it sort of did, but the CLA, CLS, A, B etc. all brought the general theme as well beforehand), not to mention the W222 is already about be be technically dated in a few ways as M-B launches a new transmission and a bunch of new tech in a model (at the bottom of the range) that debuts just one year after. The C looks literally identical to the S. Even Audi would be envious of such an exterior copy/paste job.

Problem is, if *I* were plunking down that kind of money for an S Class, I'd rather not have the C Class look identical to me, just resized. Simple as that. Same reason I don't find any reason to go A8 over an A6 or a 7 Series over a 5 Series. The S being "King S" will benefit the least from looking like a large C Class.

Another way to put it: Everyone was trying to assume that M-B would be "chasing down RR/Bentley" with the W222, which obviously is moot now as looking identical to a C Class currently kills the image factor when it comes to that comparison.

Germancar1

Says who? It is all just your opinion. Thank goodness everyone doesn't think like that. They'll judge the S based on what it is, not based on what it shares with a C-Class.

The S-Class the car does come close to the Ghost and FS, doesn't beat them, but it is at least in the conversation. It looking like the C doesn't help or harm it IMO, the S itself is a masterpiece and the press has put it up there with those. Even the terminally biased British has put the S as the best car in the world. This silly whining about it looking like this or looking like that is coming from the wrong place, non buyers. The car is already a hit. In no way is the S image killed when a car is this good, that is just ridiculous cloud talk. People who care about such things aren't buying a warmed over 7-Series (Ghost) or VW based Bentley, FS. They're reaching for Phantoms and Mulsanne if such things matters so much. S doesn't have a prayer with those cars anyway. Bottom line none of this it looks like the C angle matters to Mercedes' bottom line. They'll sell every C and S they can make end of story.

How a car that is out for over a year before a another one doesn't solidify the look is beyond me. Makes no sense at all. S is on the road NOW, C is not. Look at the comments on the net, people are saying they shrunk the S not the other way around, which makes sense considering the S is out now.

Where I do agree is that the S should have launched with the 9G, HUD and Touchpad. They will come for 2015 MY along with the C and CLS facelift.

M

K-A

Thing is, M-B fans have, since the W221 came out, complained about the expensive Audi's and Bimmers looking like the cheaper cars, and now Mercedes' expensive Sedan looks more like its lower market Sedan than any of its competitors' large cars do to theirs. Of course, NOW M-B fans won't find a problem with it since M-B are going headfirst in that direction, but M-B based Forums have been heralding M-B's more "range diversity" in styling and dissing the competitors for homogeny for a long time. It's just an interesting turn of events and equally interesting to see how MB fans will now excuse homogeny from the upper range model on down.

Let's bookmark this and check back in 3 years. My prediction is that the grandeur of the S will have diminished faster than it should as the C Class over-diluted the styling language, not to mention that most "commoners" will attribute this "look" to the C Class, considering the S a "blown up C" rather than the other way around. Yes, on message boards people will remember the months that the S debuted before the C (chances are the C comes out mid next year while the S had a late launch, therefore the time between the two may be under a year), but in the "real world" most people will get used to seeing the look far more on C Classes.

I think the S looks pretty awesome, I saw one on the road in silver with AMG Package and even my inner M-B Fanboy was about to sashay out from the depths of desolation where it currently lurks. I still have issues with its lines but overall I love it enough to have said that I'd love to get one as my next car if the timing is right. However, after seeing a C Class look identical to it, I just know that *I* will see the S as less special and that the design will be tiring to look at prematurely as every C on the road will wear it.

As usual, results may vary.

Germancar1

Some have, not all. SOME complained about that. The problem is with Audi is that it can been seen as dull and boring especially with the FWD proportions. The BMW lineup on the other hand has never looked better IMO, at least not since the late 80's.

The overwhelming majority of these people will be car ignorant people and likely non buyers and it won't matter. This is all just like hearing dogs barking in the distance. Matterless.

The C comes out next fall, S came out this fall, a month or 2 doesn't mean a thing. The S is here now that trumps the C's arrival.

Much ado about nothing.

M

M

Germancar1

Some have, not all. SOME complained about that. The problem is with Audi is that it can been seen as dull and boring especially with the FWD proportions. The BMW lineup on the other hand has never looked better IMO, at least not since the late 80's.

The overwhelming majority of these people will be car ignorant people and likely non buyers and it won't matter. This is all just like hearing dogs barking in the distance. Matterless.

The C comes out next fall, S came out this fall, a month or 2 doesn't mean a thing. The S is here now that trumps the C's arrival.

Much ado about nothing.

M

MBNUT1

Pretty sure the target audience for the S doesn't view things that way. They want the best, have the means to acquire it and they execute. They have more important things to do with their time than fret over whether a C class looks like their car. If it does they recognize that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.