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Old 04-20-2019, 09:27 AM
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Is anyone interested

So many new SUVs and sports cars have started filling up the lineup of MB vehicles. I find myself overwhelmed with all the new models. I really wish MB was still an exclusive luxury car brand that focused on the S, E, and C cars (maybe one SUV). I am at the point where when I see headlines of the latest and greatest MB SUV , economy A car, ultra-sporty AMG Porsche competitors that I just ignore the advertisements and move on. Is this causing a downturn in quality of our bread and butter loves like the S class? Are they stretching their vehicular muscles too much? Just a random non-S class discussion , I know.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MBS63AMG View Post
So many new SUVs and sports cars have started filling up the lineup of MB vehicles. I find myself overwhelmed with all the new models. I really wish MB was still an exclusive luxury car brand that focused on the S, E, and C cars (maybe one SUV). I am at the point where when I see headlines of the latest and greatest MB SUV , economy A car, ultra-sporty AMG Porsche competitors that I just ignore the advertisements and move on. Is this causing a downturn in quality of our bread and butter loves like the S class? Are they stretching their vehicular muscles too much? Just a random non-S class discussion , I know.
Brand Recognition.... If anyone pulls up with just about any type of MB, it in general it will say success / money to the person driving, safety after....
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:02 AM
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MB goal is to have their vehicle in every garage in the world, so exclusivity gets compromised. Since the intro for the CLA (some might say as far back as the ML/SLK), the new direction has been set. Now with EV the primary focus expect more of the same to come. The MB that once was is no longer. They will still make great cars, and in some cases really great cars but with different priorities. Personally if you want the legendary MB "build" quality it's reserved for higher line only (S, SL, G) and that's it. The S and E coupes will be no more and expect more crossover/SUV types with some sort of hybrid/E systems. Yes, the quality has gone downhill, cars have become like cellphones. The trade cycles are shorter with software and tech interface the primary drivers. The focus is on leasing the front end and trading/rolling into CPO on the back end. MB was a car built for the long term, you would buy and keep as long as you wanted and no worries. Not anymore.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:15 AM
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I think Benz and Bmw have watered down there brand with to many model offerings. You cant be everything to everyone.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:42 AM
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The cheapening of the S class post refresh, as well as the mass consumerization of MB products/whoring out of its brand/lack of exclusivity now is why I left MB.
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Old 04-20-2019, 11:07 AM
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I purchased my last 2 S550's because they are comfortable cars that are also a little sporty. I am 6'7" tall so I have a hard time finding cars I fit in comfortably. I could care less what others think of my car as I did not buy it as a status symbol but rather because I wanted a silent vault like experience when i drive. There is no other car in the world that compares to the S in this regard. I may go to a Range Rover next as I have heard they are as quiet and roomy just for a change of pace. Fortunately the Rovers depreciate as fast as the S class cars so I will get a nice CPO example for about half of new.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by places View Post
MB goal is to have their vehicle in every garage in the world, so exclusivity gets compromised. Since the intro for the CLA (some might say as far back as the ML/SLK), the new direction has been set. Now with EV the primary focus expect more of the same to come. The MB that once was is no longer. They will still make great cars, and in some cases really great cars but with different priorities. Personally if you want the legendary MB "build" quality it's reserved for higher line only (S, SL, G) and that's it. The S and E coupes will be no more and expect more crossover/SUV types with some sort of hybrid/E systems. Yes, the quality has gone downhill, cars have become like cellphones. The trade cycles are shorter with software and tech interface the primary drivers. The focus is on leasing the front end and trading/rolling into CPO on the back end. MB was a car built for the long term, you would buy and keep as long as you wanted and no worries. Not anymore.
Plus 1000. This is my number one complaint about modern Mercedes given that my family got into this marque almost 60 years ago for exactly that reason. I can remember driving my '59 220SE across country and a Mercedes restoration guy telling me that it would last forever. Nowadays many people who own the vaulted S class wouldn't dare own one out of warranty.

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Old 04-20-2019, 12:46 PM
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With so many downscale models, the MB ownership experience is becoming diluted. Bring your $125K S Class in for service and you enter an arena full of much lesser vehicles and waiting rooms full of soccer moms and screaming kids. The simple fact of the matter is that the dealerships are becoming overwhelmed, as most of them were not built to handle the tremendous increase in the volume of vehicles they now sell and service. As Hyundai split off their luxury Genesis brand, MB should split off everything below the E Class and handle all of those vehicles at other facilities. Of course I know this will not happen, as without the MB name and 3-Pointed Star, sales would fall through the floor. Perhaps, eventually, they could split off the S Class & above vehicles and market them through Maybach dealerships. That actually might work. But, one thing is sure: SOMETHING has got to give!
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:17 PM
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Unfortunately, Mercedes does NOT provide special care for S class owners. As a true high end vehicle, they should offer extended road side service. Most dealers provide low end load cars as loaners while your vehicle is in for service. A true luxury brand should provide higher end loaners. A further enhancement could be a longer warranty period for high end vehicles. The only current advantage for high end owners is that most dealers charge the same price for "A" and "B" service for a $30,000 vehicle as for an S class. Some do charge more for AMG.
Maybe it is time for Mercedes to follow the Japanese brands with two distinct dealer organizations -- Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
With so many downscale models, the MB ownership experience is becoming diluted. Bring your $125K S Class in for service and you enter an arena full of much lesser vehicles and waiting rooms full of soccer moms and screaming kids. The simple fact of the matter is that the dealerships are becoming overwhelmed, as most of them were not built to handle the tremendous increase in the volume of vehicles they now sell and service. As Hyundai split off their luxury Genesis brand, MB should split off everything below the E Class and handle all of those vehicles at other facilities. Of course I know this will not happen, as without the MB name and 3-Pointed Star, sales would fall through the floor. Perhaps, eventually, they could split off the S Class & above vehicles and market them through Maybach dealerships. That actually might work. But, one thing is sure: SOMETHING has got to give!
I feel your pain. Spend 120K+ and you get to see a CLA or GLA or some other diluted product with the MB badge. Personally I've lost track of all the different models and have no plans to learn them. Even the E at this point. My conclusion is that MB could care less about us, their focus is a new clientele with no real frame of reference as to what a real Benz should be. We will fade away and the newer generation of buyers will think that a fake quad exhaust on a fake AMG 43 or 53 or whatever is perfectly acceptable. It's clearly a different company with a different focus.

As for splitting off into a Maybach level world, very cool idea. Sign me up, I'm in.
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:57 PM
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My take is that it appears that post early '90's Mercedes took a cultural shift from being a product centric entity, whose mission was to build the safest, best engineered, highest quality automobiles and charge accordingly to one whose primary mission was of maximizing shareholder return. When I owned my last E Class it felt like the car's primary purpose was not to be a long lasting automobile but rather a cash flow instrument from my bank account to Mercedes. I suppose it could be argued that this cultural shift was driven in large part by competition from Lexus. The upside of this is that more people drive safer cars than they use to.

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Old 04-20-2019, 02:01 PM
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You would think they would learn from BMW whose sales are down and most are citing a good amount of it is because the dizzying amount of models and sub models available that all look alike.


I get them trying to give the lower models a bit of identity of the higher S Class but in years it seams like its the other way around. The C class Designo anterior in the C63 is nicer than the S class in terms of color availability and mixes of material.

I swear half the time I cant tell if its an E or and S that I'm looking at and I own the damn car. The S should be easily recognizable and distinctive which it isn't. Look at a 140 series S Class and even today its size and presence still make a statement.

We live in a world where earning luxury goods is no longer due to hard work now it is expected. This creates everyone thinking they have to have a BMW or Benz at points in their life when they aren there yet. This is why we now have budget models within the marque.

To me Mercedes and BMW have lost their status and let be serious you aren't buying one for life anymore like with the 126 series. They need to step it up with more color exclusive exterior and interior color selections.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner View Post
With so many downscale models, the MB ownership experience is becoming diluted. Bring your $125K S Class in for service and you enter an arena full of much lesser vehicles and waiting rooms full of soccer moms and screaming kids. The simple fact of the matter is that the dealerships are becoming overwhelmed, as most of them were not built to handle the tremendous increase in the volume of vehicles they now sell and service. As Hyundai split off their luxury Genesis brand, MB should split off everything below the E Class and handle all of those vehicles at other facilities. Of course I know this will not happen, as without the MB name and 3-Pointed Star, sales would fall through the floor. Perhaps, eventually, they could split off the S Class & above vehicles and market them through Maybach dealerships. That actually might work. But, one thing is sure: SOMETHING has got to give!

I do not share the theme of this viewpoint. The Mercedes brand that I love was not about exclusivity driven by the financial wherewithal of it's owners. Yes they were always more expensive but that was a result of the combination of engineering content, quality of materials and workmanship and low production volumes. What made them financially viable was that they outlasted the competition to justify the larger initial outlay. While I miss the days when Mercedes owners beeped at another oncoming Mercedes because of their rarity I don't for a second lament that Mercedes are becoming more available to the unwashed masses. They weren't about the owners. They were all about the car and its commitment to safety, engineering superiority and craftsmanship, not the latte machine in the service area. They produced cars that had rubber floor mats and bakelite window trim but it was all high quality. In fact years ago they didn't have nearly the cache in comparison to the highly stylized American cars. I can remember my friend referring to my dads 180 as an "ugly little car". My issue with Mercedes is the abandonment of producing a vehicle of superior durability.

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Old 04-20-2019, 02:43 PM
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I will say that after being shoehorned into a CLA a couple of years ago, I wrote a letter to the GM of my dealer. I told him of my many new car MB purchases, then I gave him my spiel: “You bring a $29K CLA in for service and they give you a $29K CLA loaner. You bring a $125K S Class in for service and they give you a $29K CLA loaner.” I also reminded him how I pass right by Fletcher Jones Motor Cars (those thieves!) right in Newport Beach where I live, as I get on the 73 Toll Road, to make the 20 minute trip to his dealership. I received a phone call from the GM, thanking me for my business and promising that from now on, whenever I bring one of our cars in for service, I will be given an E Class or larger loaner, and he has made good on it.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:43 PM
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I'm happy to hear your opinion. I respectfully take issue with it. Your A8 is an amazing car. That said you certainly realize Audi does not measure up to MB recognition and that perception of Audi by some is nothing more than a VW in a tux. <-- I do not agree in whole, but you understand the A3 is a Golf. I certainly agree that MB is getting cheap, but so are the others in class. I'll add that Hyundai/Genesis is aware and gaining.

Originally Posted by superangrypenguin View Post
The cheapening of the S class post refresh, as well as the mass consumerization of MB products/whoring out of its brand/lack of exclusivity now is why I left MB.

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Old 04-20-2019, 03:07 PM
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Personally I have no problem if everyone could afford an S or an E what have you. Ego has nothing to do with it. The issue I have is when certain parts in 140K vehicle are being shared with a 35K vehicle, or I walk into a dealership and I see a beautiful Maybach or high line AMG next to a plastic 35K CLA or whatever the new loss leader of the day is. I don't want to walk in to spend that kind of money and look at something that costs a fraction of sitting next to it. That, as has been mentioned time and time again, dilutes the experience and the quality of the car in my opinion. Then MB tells me that they are two different cars, but to the CLA buyer they're being told they are the same car. Just made in different factories. I don't want what everyone else drives if I pay for "the best or nothing". How can everything be the best? I liked the rubber mats, the wiper stalk on the right side of the steering column (which was moved left for the Asian market), vacuum locks, etc.. The quirks were part of the experience, almost an eccentricity but with unparalleled quality and safety. For me I see the greatness of the brand slipping away as the focus has without doubt gone downmarket, and purely bottom line driven at the expense of quality. Being afraid to own an S out of warranty or more than 3 years? Seriously? What is arguably the best car in the world right? Yes, they have abandoned the production of a superior vehicle. No doubt, and it won't get better with more and more tech being jammed in these cars at a staggering pace.

Luxury itself has been diluted. Walk into a Tiffanys store and you see people buying $100 trinkets next to someone shopping for an 85K anniversary gift. Is that real luxury? No, these brands are leveraging their legacies as true luxury to broaden their market base and appeal to younger markets who may not have the affluence but still want access to luxury brands. Plus building brand loyalty. It's everywhere with most brands today. Cars included.

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Old 04-20-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner View Post
I will say that after being shoehorned into a CLA a couple of years ago, I wrote a letter to the GM of my dealer. I told him of my many new car MB purchases, then I gave him my spiel: “You bring a $29K CLA in for service and they give you a $29K CLA loaner. You bring a $125K S Class in for service and they give you a $29K CLA loaner.” I also reminded him how I pass right by Fletcher Jones Motor Cars (those thieves!) right in Newport Beach where I live, as I get on the 73 Toll Road, to make the 20 minute trip to his dealership. I received a phone call from the GM, thanking me for my business and promising that from now on, whenever I bring one of our cars in for service, I will be given an E Class or larger loaner, and he has made good on it.
I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to drive a CLA no matter what you brought in.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:48 PM
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I find myself wondering, is luxury scalable?
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Old 04-20-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by teksurv View Post
I find myself wondering, is luxury scalable?
Yes and no. Physics dictate that it is easier to give a larger car a more luxurious ride and certainly a car with more cylinders will tend to be smoother. However if you build a car to a common standard I don't see why a small car can't be as high a quality as a larger car.
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Old 04-20-2019, 04:31 PM
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I always got an S loaner when I was servicing my S at the dealer.......I figured it was normal. Once when I had a 911TT, I took it in for some warranty work and they gave me a brand new Panamera to drive home for the night. Another time I got a brand new Cayman as a loaner.......I stopped going to the dealers for service anyway. I don't really care about brand dilution.......could care less really. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.........


Maybe some of you, higher expectation, fella's should sub out your trips to the dealers so you don't have to be bothered with normal plebeians like soccer moms and crying kids Just stay home and count your money haha.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DABRONX View Post
You would think they would learn from BMW whose sales are down and most are citing a good amount of it is because the dizzying amount of models and sub models available that all look alike.


I get them trying to give the lower models a bit of identity of the higher S Class but in years it seams like its the other way around. The C class Designo anterior in the C63 is nicer than the S class in terms of color availability and mixes of material.

I swear half the time I cant tell if its an E or and S that I'm looking at and I own the damn car. The S should be easily recognizable and distinctive which it isn't. Look at a 140 series S Class and even today its size and presence still make a statement.

We live in a world where earning luxury goods is no longer due to hard work now it is expected. This creates everyone thinking they have to have a BMW or Benz at points in their life when they aren there yet. This is why we now have budget models within the marque.

To me Mercedes and BMW have lost their status and let be serious you aren't buying one for life anymore like with the 126 series. They need to step it up with more color exclusive exterior and interior color selections.
Bentley comes to mind when you want exclusivity. Back in 2006 when I owned a VW Phaeton W12, I went to Dresden to watch them build both cars in the same factory. Despite the irony of it all, Bentley cars were so fancy and exclusive as they had a huge office within the hardwood floored factory with palettes of materials , wood, porcelain inlays, stitching options, floor mat options, exterior color options that truly boggled the mind. I wish MB had stayed put with sedans and convertibles and made them gorgeous and distinctive with customer influenced detail. I think that MB vehicles being built in America has had some part of this. I live only 45 minutes from Vance, AL and I'm proud to see them here, but just the other day I saw hundreds of MB SUVS stored at a closed mall parking lot in a bad, crime infested part of Birmingham. The new MB dealership in Irondale, AL must be stocking that place full of cars. If so, they are the leader in selling these sub-models Benzes. The dealership lot alone holds 400 cars and I must have seen 500 at that vacated mall lot. Anyway, like many have said, they are trying to put an MB in the driveways of every home and that sort of ruins the MB image in my opinion.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MBNUT1 View Post
I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to drive a CLA no matter what you brought in.
My Honda Accord got T-boned a couple of weeks ago and was deemed a total loss. So, I test drove a CLA in thinking it might be a good replacement for it, and I was extremely frightened and amazed as to how low of quality that car had. It's a beautiful car but the interior quality was awful and it had glitches popping up on the screen to the point I couldn't even drive it. I'm also reading where they are one of the least reliable cars on the road. Very disturbing.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by superpop View Post
I purchased my last 2 S550's because they are comfortable cars that are also a little sporty. I am 6'7" tall so I have a hard time finding cars I fit in comfortably. I could care less what others think of my car as I did not buy it as a status symbol but rather because I wanted a silent vault like experience when i drive. There is no other car in the world that compares to the S in this regard. I may go to a Range Rover next as I have heard they are as quiet and roomy just for a change of pace. Fortunately the Rovers depreciate as fast as the S class cars so I will get a nice CPO example for about half of new.
Lol, I am with you. I can only fit in an s class/7 series. I just want a quiet comfortable ride with no legroom compromised. I have no choice but to buy one. I could otherwise care less about status symbol or brand dilution. I personally would only be mad at an A class or C class loaner due to legroom but never due to MSRP!
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MBS63AMG View Post
My Honda Accord got T-boned a couple of weeks ago and was deemed a total loss. So, I test drove a CLA in thinking it might be a good replacement for it, and I was extremely frightened and amazed as to how low of quality that car had. It's a beautiful car but the interior quality was awful and it had glitches popping up on the screen to the point I couldn't even drive it. I'm also reading where they are one of the least reliable cars on the road. Very disturbing.
Not worthy of the 3-Pointed Star. Should be sold as a Smart car.
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Old 04-20-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner View Post
Not worthy of the 3-Pointed Star.
Complete agreement
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