Kleemann question - performance mods and warranty
08-26-2002, 12:41 PM
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sl500 1998/ferrari 355gts 1997
Kleemann question - performance mods and warranty
I have a 2003 SL500 w. sport package...great car, but 302 HP just isn't enough. I'm considering adding a Kleemann supercharger. I'm concerned about voiding the MBUSA warranty, though.
Has anyone out there had any experience in this area? Here's the response I got from Kleemann:
The addition of our kompressor system will NOT void your warranty. A law called the Magnuson-Moss act of 1975 states that it is illegal for a dealer to void your warranty due to the presence of an aftermarket part. The burden of proof lies on the dealer or manufacturer to explicitly prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure.
Also, has anyone else out there had Kleemann experiences (good or bad?)
Has anyone out there had any experience in this area? Here's the response I got from Kleemann:
The addition of our kompressor system will NOT void your warranty. A law called the Magnuson-Moss act of 1975 states that it is illegal for a dealer to void your warranty due to the presence of an aftermarket part. The burden of proof lies on the dealer or manufacturer to explicitly prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure.
Also, has anyone else out there had Kleemann experiences (good or bad?)
08-26-2002, 02:08 PM
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I have had extensive experience with Kleemann. Their product rocks and will truly transform your otherwise sluggish SL500. Warranty issues I can't speak for because I never really worried about it. If you want more info, feel free to shoot me an e-mail at sleestack666@aol.com.
08-26-2002, 03:06 PM
#4
...............it is not completely true that the Kleemann SC will not void your warranty and this is the only aspect of Kleemann USA that I do not like. They are not completely truthful about the warranty issues. Your MB dealer can refuse warranty service on any item in your car that he/she feels is defective because of the SC. This basically means, Engine, vavlvetrain, transmission, etc can be refused warranty service. HOWEVER..........the dealer has to show that it is due to the SC........this requirement apperently is not difficult for them to meet legally. So technically, your MB warranty is not voided by the Kleeman Sc, but practically it is. It all really depends on the MB dealer. You can go to court, but then think about it....even if you win, the court simply orders them to repair your car, but you loose anyway because by now it is several months later before your car gets fixed and you have spent probably more money on attorneys's fees than it might have cost to repair the car. Having said that, Kleemann SC because of the low boost extremely reliable and my understanding is that there have been no engine problems due to the SC in the USA.
Ted
Ted
08-26-2002, 03:27 PM
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99' SLK 230 & 01' CLK 430
The addition of our kompressor system will NOT void your warranty. A law called the Magnuson-Moss act of 1975 states that it is illegal for a dealer to void your warranty due to the presence of an aftermarket part. The burden of proof lies on the dealer or manufacturer to explicitly prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure.
The burden of proof lies on the dealer or manufacturer to explicitly prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure.
08-26-2002, 04:10 PM
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Kleemann SC comes with a 1 year warranty, however, if you are really going to get into tuning your car, you need to get comfortable with living w/o warranty coverage. Works for me, but, doesn't seem to fly with most people. I have not had any problems with my car (other than crashing it) or any of the aftermarket parts in it for the 2 years I have been driving it. The few problems i have had (electrical related) were taken care of by the dealer w/o any problems. Personally, if I had an SL500, a Kleemann SC is the first thing I would install. It will make the car drive as good as it looks.
08-26-2002, 06:39 PM
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The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act says warranty coverage may not be conditioned upon the use of only the vehicle manufacturer's parts unless the parts are provided free of charge. I think this would imply that only maintenance parts that are not provided free like tires, batteries, air filter are covered. Modifying your car to the point of what it was not intended for is beyond the the scope of using non vehicle manufacturer's parts.
The reality is that if they deny your warranty claim, do you have the legal muscle and money to fight it and even if you win would your legal costs exceed the repair costs? I'm not an attorney but I've used the services of one and I can tell you they do not come cheap. I would not be surprised if it costs at least $10k to try a case in court.
Personally, I feel that everyone (except DC) benefits from the claim. You get your car fixed, the dealer gets paid, the tuner is off the hook and there's no bad feelings. That's why you have to be prepared to bring the car back to it's original factory stock condition. This means that you shouldn't modify a part you can't replace.
The reality is that if they deny your warranty claim, do you have the legal muscle and money to fight it and even if you win would your legal costs exceed the repair costs? I'm not an attorney but I've used the services of one and I can tell you they do not come cheap. I would not be surprised if it costs at least $10k to try a case in court.
Personally, I feel that everyone (except DC) benefits from the claim. You get your car fixed, the dealer gets paid, the tuner is off the hook and there's no bad feelings. That's why you have to be prepared to bring the car back to it's original factory stock condition. This means that you shouldn't modify a part you can't replace.
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08-28-2002, 05:45 PM
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"This is so easy to proof !!! The only way you might be able to fool Mercedes is to remove the aftermarket parts before you take it in to the dealer."
It is not necessarly easy to prove....
Say you have an E 32 K which has had a driveshaft failure. The dealer would definatly say initally, that becuase the the car has 330 HP going through the driveshaft, they will not cover the repair under warranty. However, the informed consumer would say:
hey, wait a minute, isn't that the same drive shaft they use in the E55 AMG which has 350 HP?? There is no way the dealer can tell you that they will not cover the repair, becuase you have a kompressor on your engine producing less HP than the AMG car with the same driveshaft. Do your homework before getting warranty work done on your modified vehicle.
It is not necessarly easy to prove....
Say you have an E 32 K which has had a driveshaft failure. The dealer would definatly say initally, that becuase the the car has 330 HP going through the driveshaft, they will not cover the repair under warranty. However, the informed consumer would say:
hey, wait a minute, isn't that the same drive shaft they use in the E55 AMG which has 350 HP?? There is no way the dealer can tell you that they will not cover the repair, becuase you have a kompressor on your engine producing less HP than the AMG car with the same driveshaft. Do your homework before getting warranty work done on your modified vehicle.
08-28-2002, 10:45 PM
#9
Say you have an E 32 K which has had a driveshaft failure. The dealer would definatly say initally, that becuase the the car has 330 HP going through the driveshaft, they will not cover the repair under warranty. However, the informed consumer would say:
...........Seriously now. IF YOU ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN MB ENGINE WARRANTY REPAIRS, I strongly advise you not to get a supercharger. I have already had one dealer refuse to perform routine A-service on my car because I have a Kleemann SC. Of course we both know that he is full of stool, but my recourse is to do what?...... sue him? Regardless of whether the dealer is wrong or right, the fact that another car like yours has more HP and drives fine is no protecton for you if a dealer refuses to fix your car by blaming it on the supercharger. Afterall, you can have the same type of fuse installed in two similar cars, one blows your electrical system, while the control car is fine. Will the fact that the control car is fine mean that the fuse manufacturer is not liable? Or does the fact that your car's electrical system blew up mean that the the dealer should accept that a defect in your car's electrical system existed even before the said fuse was placed. Are you then entitled to the dealer's warranty service? Besides, the example you gave about the E32k and E55, relates to two totally different cars. One is forced induction in a V6 the other is a normally aspirated V8. One has a rear differential of 3.07 the other 2.87. Both are great cars but they approch performance in two totally different ways. It will not be hard for a for the dealer to make his point, even he may be wrong. You loose regardless. Your only saving grace is that the dealer may not want the negative publicity. But MB dealers as a rule don't like the aftermarket performance people like us and will be happy if the negative publicuty results in aftermarket modified MB owners going elsewhere. MB cars have low compression ratios. As a result, the placement of a low boost supercharger is generally quite safe and engine failure under these ciorcumstances will be an anomally. But if it happens, be rest assure that you are on your own.
Ted
...........Seriously now. IF YOU ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN MB ENGINE WARRANTY REPAIRS, I strongly advise you not to get a supercharger. I have already had one dealer refuse to perform routine A-service on my car because I have a Kleemann SC. Of course we both know that he is full of stool, but my recourse is to do what?...... sue him? Regardless of whether the dealer is wrong or right, the fact that another car like yours has more HP and drives fine is no protecton for you if a dealer refuses to fix your car by blaming it on the supercharger. Afterall, you can have the same type of fuse installed in two similar cars, one blows your electrical system, while the control car is fine. Will the fact that the control car is fine mean that the fuse manufacturer is not liable? Or does the fact that your car's electrical system blew up mean that the the dealer should accept that a defect in your car's electrical system existed even before the said fuse was placed. Are you then entitled to the dealer's warranty service? Besides, the example you gave about the E32k and E55, relates to two totally different cars. One is forced induction in a V6 the other is a normally aspirated V8. One has a rear differential of 3.07 the other 2.87. Both are great cars but they approch performance in two totally different ways. It will not be hard for a for the dealer to make his point, even he may be wrong. You loose regardless. Your only saving grace is that the dealer may not want the negative publicity. But MB dealers as a rule don't like the aftermarket performance people like us and will be happy if the negative publicuty results in aftermarket modified MB owners going elsewhere. MB cars have low compression ratios. As a result, the placement of a low boost supercharger is generally quite safe and engine failure under these ciorcumstances will be an anomally. But if it happens, be rest assure that you are on your own.
Ted
08-29-2002, 12:42 AM
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Ted-
Refusing routine maintenance due to the presence of an aftermarket part IS ILLEGAL as the day is long, period. This is the crux of what Moss-Magnuson is about- not the catostrophic failures like engines etc.
Perhaps you should go a step above the person who refused you an "A service" and remind them of this FEDERAL law.
Refusing routine maintenance due to the presence of an aftermarket part IS ILLEGAL as the day is long, period. This is the crux of what Moss-Magnuson is about- not the catostrophic failures like engines etc.
Perhaps you should go a step above the person who refused you an "A service" and remind them of this FEDERAL law.
08-29-2002, 02:35 PM
#11
Refusing routine maintenance due to the presence of an aftermarket part IS ILLEGAL as the day is long, period. This is the crux of what Moss-Magnuson is about- not the catostrophic failures like engines etc.
Perhaps you should go a step above the person who refused you an "A service" and remind them of this FEDERAL law.
.....................I am aware that it is illegal. I am also aware that I can pursue the issue further. But it was simply easier to go to another dealer that would do the A-service without hassle factor. My main point is that dealers are generally so anti-aftermarket engine mods that anyone that expects Mb engine warranty repairs after a Supercharger or pulley etc is in fir a shock. If I owned or ran an aftermarket modification outfit like Knleemann or Brabus...............I will make every effort to hook up with Mb dealers, give them a cut of the profits etc and make them more after market modification friendly. In turn you will be able to sell more mods, since Mb owners will have less worry about warranty, routine service, etc. Right now you are only able to sell these mods to ardent enthusiasts who are willing to take the gamble.
Ted
Perhaps you should go a step above the person who refused you an "A service" and remind them of this FEDERAL law.
.....................I am aware that it is illegal. I am also aware that I can pursue the issue further. But it was simply easier to go to another dealer that would do the A-service without hassle factor. My main point is that dealers are generally so anti-aftermarket engine mods that anyone that expects Mb engine warranty repairs after a Supercharger or pulley etc is in fir a shock. If I owned or ran an aftermarket modification outfit like Knleemann or Brabus...............I will make every effort to hook up with Mb dealers, give them a cut of the profits etc and make them more after market modification friendly. In turn you will be able to sell more mods, since Mb owners will have less worry about warranty, routine service, etc. Right now you are only able to sell these mods to ardent enthusiasts who are willing to take the gamble.
Ted
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