JT55

After reading several posts most just plain ridiculous I felt it was time to state the facts... just the facts.
My car a CLK 55 '01 is in its current state of tune a show car. It has been in Benzo magazine 3 times, The Funkmaster Flex Celebrity Car Show, Black Magic Car Wax Booth, Wheel Xperts site, and my personal crown the NEW YORK AUTO SHOW. Like it or hate it - It attracts a tremendous amount of attention. All customized cars are an expression of oneself and not everyone is going to like what you've done and thats Ok and the same goes for me, it is my expression and what you have to say is irrelevant. Obviously, somebody appreciates it otherwise it would not be invited to these aforementioned events.
That being said,of all my additions none have been as rewarding as the HPS supercharger. I could have purchased any supercharger I wanted. I researched Kleeman, LOrinser, and Renntech. I do not have their products so I cannot comment on their performance. What I can comment on is price. Ask yourself is there such a thing as a 25K supercharger or a 20K supercharger or even a 15K supercharger? Ever supercharge an American car? $3500 max. Are these 20K superchargers SUPER Superchargers, Solid Gold? Platinum perhaps? I don't think so. A 10K supercharger from HPS is still triple the price of any other AMerican application but MUCH more reasonable. Face it, you are NEVER recouping the money spent on customizing.It is for you, not for an appreciable investment. So after 40K 4 sets of wheels, 2 body kits, 2 suspension setups, 2 stereos, and a brake kit. I decided to keep some money in my pocket.
Adam and Bill at HPS have an unwaivering commitment to their product and their claims. This impressed me, I called several people who had bought their kit and all had favorable experiences. They oversaw the shipping of my car back and forth to Cali, (without a scratch) and returned it in the 3 weeks stated. I have had it for over a yr, now and no problems , just a smooth explosion of HP at virtually any rpm - loads of it and massive amounts of fun - beating up on unsuspecting M3's Corvettes, M5's and the like. Just ask the M3 owner who tested me last week, as I blew by him at 140 like he was a statue. Now thats fun. Adam has been in constant contact with me and even informed me of future improvements and updates that he will provide me when the time comes. What more could you ask for - less money - 100+ HP gain and tons of HP related fun, and great customer service. Sure Kleeman looks prettier and claims to make more HP and maybe they do. But I'll be using the 10K I saved on the deposit for my next masterpiece thanks.

DC@neowerkes

JT55,
I proposed a HPS - Kleemann event involving Dyno testing and a 1/4 race. Timster has volunteered his Kleemann CLK55. We are looking for a HPS CLK55. Would you be interested in participating?

I've heard that you have an awesome car and we would love to have you be part of this proposal. Adam has declined and I am not about to speak negatively regarding Adam's position. His email response was respecful and cordial. I have no issue with Adam and I believe he has no issue with me.

Since you have had a great experience with HPS and actively participate in public events, your CLK55 would be a nice fit for our proposal. We could plan the events to follow your next visit to the HPS facility in Santa Ana.

This request has been placed to create a fun event for the MBWorld members. I would hope that this event would be enjoyable for you and Timster. If we stay away from the negative type of competition, we all could have fun.

Take a look at my proposal in the Performance Forum and let us know if you are in. I already have members like JamE55 and Xenon volunteering to help at the events.

DC

tango

did you get a phat pay cheque from adam?

JamE55

I would still like to volunteer if this event happens?

DC@neowerkes

JT55,
If you commit, we will have magazine coverage.

JamE55,
Thanks for volunteering your help.

DC

JT55

I would love to participate but... I live in New York City.
HOw would I get there.?ANd to the guy who wrote about getting a phat check from Adam, I've never even met the guy, plus he doesn't have to pay me to speak the truth, I'm just telling my personal experience this is not a testimonial for HPS.

DC@neowerkes

In your post, I believe you have discussed future improvements and updates with Adam. If the improvements and updates are done in the Santa Ana facility, we could do our best to work the plan to have this event happen after your visit. With a willing participant, Adam may change his position and participate. Why don't we both contact Adam to see if we can make it happen? I'll contact him today.

DC

Sleestack

JT55. That's fantastic that you have had a great experience with HPS. That, however, doesn't negate HPS' conduct on this board and the fact that Adam avoids direct comparison tests aginst Kleemann like the plague. But, that is old news. As for your opinions about spending more on a SC, I would think that someone who spent as much on mods for your CLK55 would appreciate the fact that some people want more out of their cars than the HPS system provides. Furthermore, while there is no such thing as a super supercharger, there are fundamental differences in the technology behind the HPS system and the Kleemann system. Sure, you can get 100+ hp form the HPS system, however, that's not enough for some people... certainly not for me. I had my CLK 430 w/ Kleemann SC running 490 hp and 470 lb/ft of torque which wasn't enough, so I embarked on my current 6.2 liter SCed project. Everyone knows that car tuning is a money pit. You chose to spend most of your money on non-engine related upgrades. Others would argue that the money would have been better spent on the engine. Others would also tell you that they have no interest in showing their cars and care more about what their car does on the road. That is obviously a personal choice. You are clearly not a speed freak so the HPS system suits you fine, however, for those who want more out of their MB, HPS would be a compromise.

JT55

Now this is the part where it would really benefit you if you actually knew me instead of making assumptions. All of your points are well taken. However, I am a speed freak and the CLK is probably the slowest of the vehicles I have. However, as I am now in my thirties I have entered a new phase of life and its called reality. Where are you going in your 600 HP BEnz? Ever been to New York? Ever see the conditions of the roads? the unbelievable congestion? You can't drive the damn car its totally useless. Are you drag racing you're MB with 100K invested? Or do you just enjoy knowing you have it. I actually drive my car - not that often but it is a "semi daily driver" If you are a true speed freak as you claim you know that every mod you make enters the law of undriveable returns. The more you screw with it the less fun and driveable it becomes. How do I know this? Well lets just say since I was 16 with my first Trans Am. (Yes Trans Am in New York in the 80's it was THE CAR) I have ripped apart every car I have ever had and modified into undriveability. Yes it became a drag racing car, and a nightmare. Broken engine mounts, tranny mounts, leaking headers, blown rear ends, a stall converter that made everyday driving unbearable, and enough rattles and shakes to drive you nuts. Next it was another TA with roll cage and Nitrous and weekly trips to Englishtown. I then entered my Bike phase which still continues today. Me and my brother own a '97 Viper GTS with about 700+ HP which we raced last year at the Viper meet in Englishtown. We both hate the car cause it is a nightmare and yes now undriveable everyday. Which is why he bought a new "03 Viper for pleasure. Anyway what does all this mean - My Benz will never be a drag racing car - MB's are not built for it you will break things - I promise. DO you want to start breaking things in a car whose parts are double what the average car is? How many mechanics do you actually know who are competent enough to rebuild a MB engine or tranny or rear? Anyone can fix a small block, hence the other problem and why I never really started ripping apart Benz or BMW motors. How many companies are there that actually make internal engine components for a Benz? for a BMW? are there hundreds or thousands like for a MOPAr or Chevy? Up until the last 5 yrs or so it was nearly impossible to find performance engine parts for a Benz save for a useless Remus exhaust or something. DO I really want some mechanic who's never hot rodded Benz' before to start tearing apart a 20K motor, who do I take it to if he ****s up? Back to the dealer? Yeah. Maybe in SoCa there are thousands of competent MB hotrodders but I doubt it. The market is too small and its more like a cult instead of a movement.
So that my friend is the reason I don't do the engine, like the rest of the car. I hate to tell you this Sleestack but after you're done with you're 6.2 or 10.0 or whatever you want to build you're going to get creamed by ANYONE who is a serious rodder. MB's are not drag cars, period. After you're done let me know, my friend has a '97 Civic that will Annihilate you're car so bad that he will need to shoot off flares to find him when he's done with you. ANd he will have done it with 500 hp and about 50K less. After that if you like since I am not a serious speed freak we can get my Brand New '03 GSX-R 1000 and see just what a speed freak You truly are. Oh yeah, slapping a supercharger on a motor that someone else has made for you does not make you a speed freak or a rodder or a modifier it makes you someone with the cash who can. And by the way so can anyone else and what fun is that.
SO in closing the HPS still made sense for me I get 113 Hp and a car that will kick ***. Whereas spending 20K would have got my an extra 50HP and my car could still get whipped by a slightly modified Viper or Z-06 or any of the superchargerd Benz' with a boost kit. Somehow I just don't see the math there spend 20 K and get a car that is marginally faster that can still be beat by any of the aforementioned cars with a couple of dollars invested or spend 10 and buy a Bike and really get your speed on. But don't take my word for it I'm not a true "speed freak"

Timster

How about supplying some currant photos and a currant Dyno graph? Not one that has been edited by photo shop. Just a simple Dyno Jet Dyno graph shown Hp, Torque and Fuel Curve.
That would strengthen your statements tremendously.

You can get 113hp with a Head, Cam, Header package and software changes.
113 HP at the rear wheels. Not from a 3-4 LBS boost package.
Tim

hmrdwn

JT-
Are you the same guy that used to post occassionally on the old MBWorld Board and the CLK (now gone) board?

If so, welcome back!

Well said. Made clear the distinction between and "tuner car"...and a "funny car."

Sleestack - You need to separate your hate for Adam from other issues. Adam is obviously a weasel. Let it die. Please spare us all another withering discussion of Kleeman's best..blah, blah, blah. I know you and the Team-K would love to have a objective dyno test of SCs...boy do we know that. But JT is offering his OPINION. YOU are countering with your OPINION. And, like I've said before, "Opinions are like axxholes, everyones got one, and no one thinks theirs stinks." Move on.

- Hmrdwn

Adam

Timster,

Click link for raw data taken from JT CLK55 dyno run from Magnuson Products. Of course we supply the SAE J1349 formula on transferring data from rear to crank. Please view link or maybe someone can post this for me?

http://www.myhps.com/clk55/dynoclk55.html

Adam

JT's CLK55

Adam

JT's CLK55 Engine

Sleestack

OK, so you are a speed freak. My bad. That's great. Your reality, at the age of 30+ is building up your CLK to show it. At the age of 30+, my reality is building a car that I can blast through the CA highways with on weekends. Yes, you are correct in saying that I am not a tuner or technician but merely someone with the money to fund a project... and yes, I consider that fun. Yes, I have been to NY. I grew up there, went to law school in Manhattan and worked on Pine Street for several years. Manhattan is not a place for any car including your CLK and certainly not the place for a GSX-R 1000. Fortunately I live in CA now where the roads and weather are ideal for driving.

Your understanding of the tuning available for MBs and the existence of competent MB tuners is off base, however, living in NY where MB tuning is not readily available, I can understand why. Sure, the MB tuning world is not as extensive as that which is available for cars like Corvettes, however, that doesn't mean the people in the playing field don't know what they are doing. Any research on the subject would let you know that. I'm building a car that is built for the road, not the dragstrip. I don't really care that a Civic pumped with NOS can outrun my car through an isolated 1/4 mile run. My Kleemann SCed 4.3 was fast. Fast enough to out run a Z06 up to 120 and burn by every car at ButtonWillow, however, I just wanted it to be faster, handle better, shift better, look better, etc. Sure, I could buy a bike or tune another car but I happen to like the W208's aesthetics and wanted to build it into a sick car. Surely you can understand that. You think that the HPS system slapped on your car makes it a car that kicks ***, however, if smacking down an M3 is your basis for that conclusion, I would have to say that you need to spend some time with an MB with some "real" power. I just took a look at your dyno and have to say that your numbers are substantially lower than those produced by the Kleemann system on a 55 and while your torque is greater by about 15 lb/s ft torque, your hp number is signifcantly lower than the 395 hp my 4.3 was putting down at the rear wheel. I think you would be surprised at how fast and driveable tuned MBs have become. But, if you want to make assumptions about MB tuning in a vaccum, ignorance is bliss. I'm not trying to dog you for putting an HPS SC on your car. If you are satisfied, that's all that really matters. Nevertheless, I think your conclusions about HPS versus other tuning options available for MBs are completely wrong and uninformed.

By the way. I like the way your car looks as it is pretty much a white version (at least the exterior) of what my black CLK will look like.

Sleestack

Dude, Im just having a discussion with JT55. Not a big deal. I know it's all opinion. i have no problem admitting when I'm wrong but also don't mind having a lively debate in the process. JT55 is from NYC, as am I... I'm sure we can both handle it.

JamE55

Forget all this talk... The question is are we going to be able to do this comparison between Tim's CLK55(kleemann) and JT's CLK55(HPS)????????

Yes OR No?

Sleestack

Given the minor issue that JT55's car is on the other side of the country, I don't see it happening.

Mach430

Ok, I can't resist! First, thank you for getting a dyno of your CLK55, it's been half a year since it appears to have been tested, but better late than never! I am dissapointed that you ignored my previous post in your "Kleemann Experience" (another magically deleted thread) where I gave you a lesson in converting rear wheel hp to crank hp. Again, you divide by .78% (when using a 22% loss), not multiply by 1.22% As shown here:

100HP*22% loss= 78HP
78HP *1.22=95.16
95.16 does not equal 100...
78 / .78 =100.

Everyone brings up the fact that HPS systems are cheaper than Kleemann, even if they gain less power, which is true. My question to you is why should someone save money with a HPS supercharger when they could sell their 55, get a 430 and add a Kleemann Supercharger; saving even more money, yielding the same power, and having a better designed product?

JamE55

JT said that he might be doing other upgrades with HPS so is he bringing his car here in the west coast? If he is then that might be a chance to do the comparison?

hmrdwn

Ben you demonstrate a ridiculous level of adolescent penial envy.

Why not sell your 55 and by an racing boat and enter the America's cup? Why not supercharge your 430 and think you are the coolest pup in town? Why not, not ask stupid questions that have nothing to do with anything?

Adam

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mach430

You know Ben; you act really tuff sitting behind a computer monitor! I wonder if you'll have the same type of attitude meeting me in person? I'm 6ft 3-inch 205 pounds 5% body fat. . . . Doubt it! If you have any issues with our company why don't you come on down to HPS and set up a meeting with me?

Timister asked for raw dyno charts of JT CLK55, so I posted it.

Interesting 1.22 . . . that's what Magnuson Products uses.

Yes I deleted all my threads, so what? People including myself were tired of the bias and negative comments. My days number on this forum.

By the way keep on telling people how poorly the hps system is. Just to let you know we are still selling systems. Sorry pal!

Sleestack

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HPS (Adam)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mach430

You know Ben; you act really tuff sitting behind a computer monitor! I wonder if you'll have the same type of attitude meeting me in person? I'm 6ft 3-inch 205 pounds 5% body fat. . . . Doubt it! If you have any issues with our company why don't you come on down to HPS and set up a meeting with me?

C'mon Adam. Threatening to sue me was bad enough. Physical threats are just ridiculous... go ahead, kick Ben's ***. I'm sure he would love to have you fund his next car.

I don't think the discussion b/t me and JT55 has digressed yet, so LET US ALL try to keep it that way.

JamE55

This thread has gotten out of hands. Can't we all try to get along?

Adam

Sleestack,

Where in my post did I threaten Ben? Look how I word my sustenance’s.

Let's focus on JT's CLK55