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New thread here for anyone interested in LSD's or that has information on ASD differentials fitted in a w124/w201/w202/w210.
I've bought an ASD from a w124 230TE. I plan on fitting this to my 1998 w202 C180 for drifting/diffing as I need a locking differential. The car currently has a welded diff but I use it as a daily driver so this is not ideal.
These housings were used in w202 C200/220/230 open differentials. The input shaft flange and rear cover can be changed to fit a w202 subframe and prop shaft.
I believe people have fitted ASD's and converted them to non ASD limited slip differentials for drifting/racing etc in w124's and w201 190e's. This requires removal of the ASD cylinders and fitting of non-ASD axle seals and w202 axle flanges.
I'm not sure whether to 1) keep the ASD cylinders and plumb to a hydraulic cylinder to lock/unlock the diff or 2) to convert it to a traditional manual LSD by increasing the lock % somehow. I also have a few questions for those who may know more about them.
Can these ASD's be shimmed to increase the lock ability/preload?
How well do the standard clutch packs in an ASD withstand wear and tear?
Are there driveshafts available that fit the standard w124 ASD axle flanges to suit the w202? The w124 driveshafts will be too long to fit the car. I believe the w202 are similar to the w201 190e variants. I believe some w202's came with ASD's from new but they are very rare. I have seen aftermarket driveshafts but they are not cheap.
I have found a company called Racing Diffs that do a spring block conversion and new clutch/thrust washer kit for the diff. This means you can remove the hydraulic cylinders and use it as a traditional limited slip unit. I have heard mixed reviews about these spring blocks. The product from Racing Diffs come with washers to go between the spring block and the spider gears to stop the gears wearing and leaving metal shavings in the diff.
If anyone has any information on these ASD "manual LSD" conversions or has retrofitted a hydraulic pump to lock the differential, some information would be much appreciated.
Pics of my car and the ASD differential below. Thanks.
Ok so I have successfully installed the ASD into my w202 C180.
I removed the hydraulic cylinders and ASD axle flanges. These will not be used with the diff. I rebuilt the ASD using the kit from RacingDiffs. This kit included new clutch plates, shims and the spring block. The axle flanges turned freely without the spring block but with the spring block installed you cannot turn them individually by hand.
The w202 185mm axle flanges worked with 185mm open differential axle flange seals.
The input flange did not have to be changed as the w202 185mm differential I had for parts used the same 90mm size input flange. I used the prop shaft from the w202 C200 185mm differential as its shorter than the standard c180 prop shaft.
The rear cover did not have to be changed to fit in the w202 subframe as the w124 cover is the same part number used in 185mm w202 differentials.
The standard C180 driveshafts did not have to be changed either as they are the same part used with w202 185mm differentials.
The diff locks perfectly when needed and drives normally like an open differential. Its working perfectly as a traditional clutch-type LSD would. The only draw back I have is the change of ratio. The ASD, like the w202 C200 differential I used for parts, is a 3.46 ratio. The standard C180 is a 3.91 ratio. The driveability is much better, it cruises at 60mph at about 2500rpm. The drawback is that its a bit dead doing skids with the longer ratio. This is to be expected with only 120hp. I'm still planning on doing an engine swap in future for more power.
Last edited by Fordey; 04-24-2023 at 08:12 AM.
Reason: Correct sizes of flanges as I wrote them wrong. Also correct diff ratio.
Awesome seeing this post as I am doing exactly the same for my CLK . I see we have same plans for our cars. Had a welded diff for couple months as I wanted to do drift events but it was a big pain for daily driving, so I started doing some research.
Bought an ASD diff from W124 250D and just swapping to LSD, saving up for RacingDiffs conversion kit and will install it later on.
Already changed the input flange and rear cover, but currently have some issues and wonder if you had the same.
When inserting open diff axle flange seals and then axle flanges, the axle flanges wouldn't go all the way in so I can't install snap rings. Just a few mm, I think it might be the axle flange seal preventing it. Did this happen to you aswell? Or did you install them without the snap rings because of the spring block?
My main concern is that the axle flanges could shift in and out and possibly wear out the splines.
When inserting open diff axle flange seals and then axle flanges, the axle flanges wouldn't go all the way in so I can't install snap rings. Just a few mm, I think it might be the axle flange seal preventing it. Did this happen to you aswell? Or did you install them without the snap rings because of the spring block?
My main concern is that the axle flanges could shift in and out and possibly wear out the splines.
I'm 99% sure I could fit the standard C Clips onto the open diff axle flanges when fitted to the ASD, although this was before I fitted the new clutches and shims. The RacingDiffs kit comes with a snap ring setup to replace the C Clips as you cannot use the standard C Clips with the spring block fitted (they do not fit). It sounds to me like your axle seals are not driven in all the way. The outer face of the seal should be flush with or slightly deeper than the sides of the ASD.
This is the best picture I can find to show what mine looks like.
Side note: One of my axle flanges does not click into place as well as the other side. As far as I could see there is no proper groove on the inside of the differential side gears for the snap rings to lock against. I was told by RacingDiffs that I may have to get the inner lip of the side gears machined for the snap rings to lock into place. The two axle flanges are holding so I left the gears alone.
Another note: My open diff had a washer/shim either side between the axle flange and the bearings. These washers would not allow the axle flange snap rings to lock into place when fitted to the ASD as the axle flange would not go in deep enough. I thought it'd be safe enough without them as there is barely any play in the axle flanges (inwards/outwards) so I left them out when I put the diff back together.
I'm 99% sure I could fit the standard C Clips onto the open diff axle flanges when fitted to the ASD, although this was before I fitted the new clutches and shims. The RacingDiffs kit comes with a snap ring setup to replace the C Clips as you cannot use the standard C Clips with the spring block fitted (they do not fit). It sounds to me like your axle seals are not driven in all the way. The outer face of the seal should be flush with or slightly deeper than the sides of the ASD.
Seals are from Elring, but are supposed to be OEM replacement, triple checked that part numbers match. I’m in a bit of a dilemma if I got the wrong ones or is it suppose to be like that.
Can I ask which brand of seals did you get?
I used Elring seals as well. I looked up the OEM part number on the old open diff seals. Part number for w124/w202 is 0209972347. I'm not sure if a CLK uses different flanges/seals.
Found the issue finally, don’t know how I missed it. Axle flanges from the open diff I think are a different model, the splines were shorter than on ASD axle flanges. I had them machined and now it finally fits like everyone says it suppose to. Will mount the diff in the next days and try it out.
I think I have the same problem with you. I have the same car, and trying to find the solution on the LSD/Rear End Differential as well. However there is another concern as well, which is the final ratio that have to be short enough to balance the relative limited engine power.
I was informed that W201 2.6 (year 1989 onward) has rear differentials that is already equipped with LSD, and have 3.92 final ratio. Have you look into this option? I am still searching whether this is something viable as I am looking for information on whether W201 rear diff can be installed in W202 as well.
Thanks,
Gomz
Originally Posted by Fordey
Ok so I have successfully installed the ASD into my w202 C180.
I removed the hydraulic cylinders and ASD axle flanges. These will not be used with the diff. I rebuilt the ASD using the kit from RacingDiffs. This kit included new clutch plates, shims and the spring block. The axle flanges turned freely without the spring block but with the spring block installed you cannot turn them individually by hand.
The w202 185mm axle flanges worked with 185mm open differential axle flange seals.
The input flange did not have to be changed as the w202 185mm differential I had for parts used the same 90mm size input flange. I used the prop shaft from the w202 C200 185mm differential as its shorter than the standard c180 prop shaft.
The rear cover did not have to be changed to fit in the w202 subframe as the w124 cover is the same part number used in 185mm w202 differentials.
The standard C180 driveshafts did not have to be changed either as they are the same part used with w202 185mm differentials.
The diff locks perfectly when needed and drives normally like an open differential. Its working perfectly as a traditional clutch-type LSD would. The only draw back I have is the change of ratio. The ASD, like the w202 C200 differential I used for parts, is a 3.46 ratio. The standard C180 is a 3.91 ratio. The driveability is much better, it cruises at 60mph at about 2500rpm. The drawback is that its a bit dead doing skids with the longer ratio. This is to be expected with only 120hp. I'm still planning on doing an engine swap in future for more power.
However there is another concern as well, which is the final ratio that have to be short enough to balance the relative limited engine power.
The difference in power between the 3.91 and 3.46 was not really noticeable during normal driving. In fact I preferred the 3.46 for fuel economy alone. The only real benefit of the 3.91 was messing / drifting with the car really, but even at that you'd struggle
to take anything more than second gear with the 1.8 engine.
I was informed that W201 2.6 (year 1989 onward) has rear differentials that is already equipped with LSD, and have 3.92 final ratio.
Yes the 16v 190e's were some of the only Mercedes to come with an actual LSD as standard. These are like hens teeth to find I believe, and are expensive to buy. I don't think any of the standard LSD bits can be bought from Mercedes anymore. I'm also not 100% sure on the ratio of them LSD's.
I am looking for information on whether W201 rear diff can be installed in W202 as well.
Dependant on the size of the diff, the 190 diff can be fitted but it means fitting a w202/w208/w124 rear cover and the correct axle flanges. This is very simple to do. I'm fairly sure the only sizes fitted to the 190e were 168mm small case (same as w202 C180 differential) and 185mm medium case. Most ASD's will be medium case. Dependant what prop shaft you use the input flange might need to be changed but in any case its easier to find the correct prop shaft and bolt it straight on.
Since I made this post I've swapped my engine to a 2.0 M111.944 Kompressor engine. The Kompressor gearbox uses a larger 110mm output flange and corresponding larger prop shaft, meaning I had to change the input flange on my ASD to a 110mm one but again it bolts straight on.
If you are interested, there is a very rare 3.92 ratio ASD (originally from a 190e I believe) on Ebay UK at the moment. Its good value for money at £400, plus it already has the w124 rear cover fitted.
Found the issue finally, don’t know how I missed it. Axle flanges from the open diff I think are a different model, the splines were shorter than on ASD axle flanges. I had them machined and now it finally fits like everyone says it suppose to. Will mount the diff in the next days and try it out.
I can shed some light on the situation you had with the axle flanges. I snapped a C180 driveshaft a few days ago. Went to the CLK200 Kompressor parts car for a replacement and found that although the shaft is the same length and has the same stub for the rear hubs, the inner cv joint is about 10mm bigger in diameter. I presume this is a Kompressor thing, same as the differential input flange, gearbox output flange and prop shaft splines etc. I'd imagine your CLK is a Kompressor or 6 cylinder or bigger? It seems they have larger flanges and slightly thicker driveshafts to cope with the torque over the n/a 4 cylinders.
I'm planning on fitting the Kompressors bigger flanges to my ASD now so I can run the heavier driveshafts. That way I'll have the full Kompressor drivetrain, should be able to cope with the power. I haven't pulled apart the CLK diff yet but I'd imagine I'll run into the same issue as you did with axle flanges and the length of the splined bit.
Why did you add the conversion kit? shouldn't the asd have 30% by default and than if in slip, the pump sends oil to the w124 flanges and goes up tu 100%.
Since you put the w202 flanges it shuld stay at 30% wich is provided by clutches.Its still more than bmws 25% lsd . I newer saw a asd ,this info is from the internet and yt.
Why did you add the conversion kit? shouldn't the asd have 30% by default and than if in slip, the pump sends oil to the w124 flanges and goes up tu 100%.
Since you put the w202 flanges it shuld stay at 30% wich is provided by clutches.Its still more than bmws 25% lsd .
I wanted as much lock % as possible for drifting. I haven't tried one without the conversion kit, but I have heard of a large case (210mm) ASD locking fine without the conversion kit. I think its shimmed to the last to achieve this.
Not sure if I said or not but it is one-wheeling on occasion now since I rebuilt it last, either to do with the grade of oil or the fact I put in slimmer shims to essentially "loosen" the differential or decrease lock %. I was trying to reduce some of the noise when turning. I will tighten it again though.
Side note: One of my axle flanges does not click into place as well as the other side. As far as I could see there is no proper groove on the inside of the differential side gears for the snap rings to lock against. I was told by RacingDiffs that I may have to get the inner lip of the side gears machined for the snap rings to lock into place. The two axle flanges are holding so I left the gears alone.
Quick update. I got a chamfer machined onto the inner lip of the side gears and the flanges haven't popped out since. This is required for the RacingDiffs c-clips to function properly. My 185mm open diff had this done from factory I presume. Don't have a pic of the chamfer but below is the edge I'm talking about.
12-28-2022, 05:37 PM
. I see we have same plans for our cars. Had a welded diff for couple months as I wanted to do drift events but it was a big pain for daily driving, so I started doing some research.
