rchardwick

Apologies if this topic has been covered already and I'm merely inept at searching the forum.

I purchased a 2010 Bluetec this past June and have been quite pleased. Contrary to my last few Subarus and Audis, it had zero faults as delivered.

Anyhow, on a ski trip to Silver Star BC a couple of weeks ago, it got fairly chilly. At -14F, the car wouldn't start. The starter would turn around the engine just fine, but there wasn't the hint of fuel ignition. Strange that there is no block heater option for the car... In a couple of days it warmed to +18F and the car started fine.

Since I was able to drive a friend's gasoline fueled car, it wasn't an issue. In the future I plan to rig up some kind of heater pad and blankets on evenings when it gets sufficiently chilly. The question is: what is "sufficiently chilly"? I want to avoid rigging heating pads unnecessarily. OTOH, I also don't want to be stranded while waiting for my kludgy heating pad to get engine/fuel warm enough to operate.

Does anybody have a better resolution on the minimum start temperature?
It doesn't get down to -15F around here (Seattle and Mazama, WA) very often, but if it won't start much below 18F (or the gel point of diesel: 14F) then things get busy.

mercdriver

Do you have Keyless go?

If you don't, after inserting the key and turning on the vehicle, you will have to wait for the glow plugs to warm up (as indicated on the dash) before actually starting the car.

If you do have keyless go, this is an automated process...

rchardwick

I don't have keyless go but did wait for the glow plugs indication light to extinguish before turning the key to "start". In fact, I've found that the engine controller won't let you jump the gun. Also, once turned to "start" the car will continue spinning the starter motor until either the engine starts up or I turn the key back to off.

mercdriver

It's a trip to the dealer then. My Blue-Tec has no issues whatsoever in those temps. Mercedes does a LOT of winter testing of their vehicles during the design process (as do ALL German car manufacturers). My guess is that one or more of your glow plugs, or their connections, are faulty. Worse case scenario might be a faulty Glow Plug controller. Either way, you're covered. Take it in.

fstshrk

Is it possible that the diesel froze or was contaminated with water and the water collected somewhere and froze?

smokersteve

Diesel Kleen from PowerServices is a great additive for diesels. Its a wallmart. The white bottle has an antigell and the gray does not.

rchardwick

Thanks for the replies.

Mercdriver was correct in perceiving that I'd neglected to contact my dealer - duh! And Smokersteve's recommendation for a fuel additive captured what the dealer told me.

Disappointingly though, the dealer (Phil Smart) recommended using anti-gel with every tank whenever the expected temperature drops below 20F. Not only does this increase operating cost (sorry, I remember STP, et al and don't believe Slickdiesel's claim that MPG savings exceed the cost of the additive) and hassle, it also smacks of indifferent CYA conservatism. Through personal experience I already know that whatever winter formula diesel is in the local pumps allows starting at +15F. It's a full 29 degrees of uncertainty between that temperature and my one datapoint of non-starting. Can't MB do better than that?

fstshrk

Unfortunately, this is the way diesel works. If it gets too cold, you need to put an anti-gel in the tank and run it long enough for it to make it all the way to the injectors.

Based on you mentioning Phil Smart, it does not get that cold in Seattle and you should be OK 99% of the time except on skiing trips. We got 10-20 degree temps here in eastern WA and so far so good. It looks like the car has to sit out overnight before gelling of the diesel becomes an issue.

rchardwick

FSTSHRK,
For sure, in Seattle you could probably take that nine to the hundredths or thousandths place! But we also spend a lot of time in Mazama, where single digits or less are fairly common and we don't have a garage (yet).

Do you run an additive all winter long in E WA or only below a certain temperature? If the latter, what is that temperature?

I re-approached Phil Smart via the salesman who sold us the car. He is getting them to check on (hopefully) a more accurate temperature where additive is needed, as well as a list of MB approved additives. Don't want to void that warranty!

Fortunately, the Adblue tank has a heater.

smokersteve

Oh no, I do not believe in the mpg they state. I use it for the fact that it cleans, lubricates and the anti-gel. But for lubrication tc-w3 2 cycle oil (ashless) is used widely for lubrication for the injection system among the truck diesel forums. Diesel Kleen is more of a cleaner and antigel than for lubrication. That is why people will use a little of both.

fstshrk

We put the R320CDI in the garage overnight.
It looks like leaving it out during the day is not that much of an issue even when temps are nearing zero degrees F.

I used to use an additive on my Duramax diesel but we never put anything in the tank for the MB. I guess I need to make a trip to Autozone or Walmart to buy at least a bottle to keep just in case.

By the way, whatever additive you buy, make sure it does not have additional sulfur. I believe that is a no-go for the catalytic converter.

smokersteve

It is a diesel take it off!!!!!

rchardwick

As luck would have it, we did get a prolonged cold spell in Mazama a few weeks ago. After 3 days of the temperature averaging 0F (10F at midday, -10F at night), the R-class wouldn't start. And we needed to return to Seattle.

Mercedes Roadside Assistance reiterated what Phil Smart had told us: there is no approved diesel anti-gel additive for the Bluetec. I hadn't used anything unapproved because the owners manual is full of "void warranty" language if non-approved additives are used. With two different catalytic converters, Adblue injection, etc. there's a lot of new technology to mess up on a Bluetec. What to do?? In the end, Mercedes flat bedded the car 240 miles to Phil Smart. They wouldn't take it to a warm, non-dealer garage 12 miles away... Glad this wasn't on my nickel!

Phil Smart found nothing wrong with the car. Once warmed, it started fine. They did discover a Tech Bulletin from 2009 that prescribed the use of Mercedes Diesel Cold Flow Improver (P/N A 000 989 28 45) for temperatures below 5F. The dosage is one 200ml ($18) bottle per 80 liter tank.

This works for me. In Mazama we get sustained temperatures at or below 5F only a few times each winter. Phil Smart had to order the additive. I was hoping that it might be CRC, Power Service or some other hydrocarbon cocktail with a MB part number stuck to the side so that I could get it at any parts store. Nope, it's a silver MB branded bottle from Stuttgart.

I should add that the Roadside Assistance folks were very courteous and impressively fast, even on a Sunday. The flatbed driver said that ours was not the only non-starting Bluetec in the valley. He'd taken one to Seattle the day before. Hopefully, other folks like me who scrupulously follow manufacturer's recommendations will get the news that a) the owners manual has a glaring omission regarding cold starting procedures/additives and b) there is a MB anti-gel additive that is easily kept with the tools & stuff back near the Adblue tank.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people on the forum who have had no problems using non-MB anti-gel additives. The label on the MB stuff mentions nothing exotic, quoting, "Contains: kerosine (petroleum); Straight run kerosine; solvent naphtha (petroleum); heavy arom.; Kerosine - unspecified".

fstshrk

This is of concern to us.

I guess I will stop by our MB dealer and order a bottle of this.

Since we have an 07, I presume we can use the standard anti-gel stuff from Walmart.

dgiturbo

A few years ago, I had mine outside when the temps dropped to -15F for a couple of days. It would not start. After doing my homework, I found that several fuel stations like to pocket extra cash by adding (or not removing) the water from their diesel storage tanks. When you pump this garbage, your R has a smart enough fuel filter design that will separate the fuel from water until you change the filter after about 20,000 miles.
The problem is that on those cold days, that water freezes and gels the diesel in the filter with it, thus no start.
Easy fix. Use a fuel station that moves a lot of fuel, like a truck stop etc., and use the Power Service additive year round. Don't sweat the Bluetec and additive issue. This stuff mixes with the fuel, not the adblue and is applied really diluted. (8oz per 26 gallons) It's a lot cheaper than the MB part mentioned. Check their website and see how much they have tested it. I have been using it now since that no start day, and never had an issue since. (-22F) Also I am one of those that uses MB branded parts fanatically, unless something else makes more sense.

By the way, if this happens again, no flatbed needed. Take the plastic cover off the engine, and used a hairdryer on the fuel filter for about 10 minutes. (High setting) Will start right up.

Ted Flynn

Even though they say to not add that stuff, I do all the time.

How will they be able to determine if used it or not? These fuel stations aren't out for my best interests and they might add stuff too.

I've been at 22 below zero in Wisconsin and it's started strong everytime.

jwratts

Here in Indiana the stations all change to winter blend diesel. It is green colored and i have not had any starting problem.

listerone

My one and only experience with starting a car in *really* cold weather (that is,anything below,say,-5F) happened last January in a small town about 200 miles north of Montreal with my recently departed BMW diesel.Having known in advance that that particular night was gonna be *real* cold I filled up with locally blended diesel at a Shell station on arrival in the town.The next morning,after about 13 hours of the car having sat in *real* cold,it started like a champ at -31F (I swear to God!).I think with diesels,using fuel blended for the local climate and having a battery that's not near death are the keys.

lkchris

As for "approval" of additives, catalytic converters for diesels have been around for quite some time. Diesel particulate filters on the other hand ... .

listerone

I've always taken seriously the warnings that both BMW and MB have issued regarding fuel additives in diesels and,as a result,don't use any.I've always stayed aware of using locally blended fuel (as I suggested above) and have never had a problem starting a diesel....whether it's -5F or -31F.