upgrade the brakes?
08-19-2013, 12:17 AM
#26
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I have to wonder about the previous maintenance history / condition of your car's brake system, and whether sub-standard aftermarket brake parts had been previously installed or there was some other pre-existing condition. The reason I wonder is because my car is completely stock / factory equipped, and the brakes are as good (or better) as any other car I've ever had (dozens, all types). I've never felt like I couldn't stop fast enough or needed to apply any extra effort. It stops exactly as I would expect a Mercedes should stop. This is further validated by many independent reviews of the R-class, and other related models that use this brake system.
I just don't want anyone to get the impression that these cars have some kind of inherent and hazardous deficiency in braking - they don't.
I just don't want anyone to get the impression that these cars have some kind of inherent and hazardous deficiency in braking - they don't.
Last edited by PeteInLongBeach; 08-19-2013 at 12:20 AM.
08-19-2013, 04:56 AM
#27
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2006 R500
I can only speak abut my own R, as far as I know the R500's were given upgrades from the standard issue brakes used on the R350, the fronts were to receive a 13.8" rotor instead of the 13" standard of the R350 to compensate for the increased power and weight, and the rear rotors were supposed to be upgraded to vented rear discs for the same reason. unfortunately in 06 Mercedes let quite a few of the first R500's leave the assembly line without these upgrades that Mercedes themselves determined the v8 required.
my R500 was an earlier 06 it seems, and my R500 came with the below standard R350 brakes when brand new straight from Mercedes. this is a 5,300lb truck with over 300HP and I drive it spiritedly, it goes and it goes well, but it did not stop well at all. it had new brakes done by Mercedes 28k miles ago in the rear and 16k miles ago in the front. the rears were dead by the time I changed them but they are puny and inadequate in a vehicle with this much power and weight, the fronts still looked ok really but they just don't stop this thing well at all, but again I drive it hard, the only thing that was really wrong with them was that they were inadequate. when I got it the rear brakes had 20k miles on them and they were at least half still left, but I completely killed them in 8k miles or so, full metal to metal groundage dead dead
the first owner was a woman driver who just drove her kids around in it, didn't beat it at all and it was always serviced by Mercedes and still had a full extended warranty and again these brakes were recently serviced by a Mercedes dealer. I do not believe they were compromised or defective in any way
look at the size of these rear brakes. yes the are metal to metal worn because I drove on them for a few months after the sensors indicated low pads as I prepared these replacements, but they stopped horrible even way before that.
if you drive civil like a normal commuter and do not tax your equipment they may be perfectly adequate, but trust me, there is no way that a brake this tiny with small flat non vented rotor can stop a truck as powerful and as heavy as my R500 well enough to be considered anywhere near good from a high performance point of view. when it comes to performance these brakes were a joke, I've seen bigger brakes on little jap cars, these brakes were just no where near adequate for the R500 even when they were brand new. I'm not exaggerating when I say that my R500 was one of the worse stopping big cars I've ever driven, I think a Chevy suburban would even stop better than this thing did, maybe good enough for someone who drives like a soccer mom, but totally suck for us Mario Andretti wannabe types I'd say I never drove an R350 or R320, certainly not aggressively enough to have any opinion so I can't really say anything about any other R class brakes, but I can say that I think the early R500's that came from Mercedes with the substandard non upgraded R500 brakes do not stop very well from what I've seen with my R
my R500 was an earlier 06 it seems, and my R500 came with the below standard R350 brakes when brand new straight from Mercedes. this is a 5,300lb truck with over 300HP and I drive it spiritedly, it goes and it goes well, but it did not stop well at all. it had new brakes done by Mercedes 28k miles ago in the rear and 16k miles ago in the front. the rears were dead by the time I changed them but they are puny and inadequate in a vehicle with this much power and weight, the fronts still looked ok really but they just don't stop this thing well at all, but again I drive it hard, the only thing that was really wrong with them was that they were inadequate. when I got it the rear brakes had 20k miles on them and they were at least half still left, but I completely killed them in 8k miles or so, full metal to metal groundage dead dead
the first owner was a woman driver who just drove her kids around in it, didn't beat it at all and it was always serviced by Mercedes and still had a full extended warranty and again these brakes were recently serviced by a Mercedes dealer. I do not believe they were compromised or defective in any waylook at the size of these rear brakes. yes the are metal to metal worn because I drove on them for a few months after the sensors indicated low pads as I prepared these replacements, but they stopped horrible even way before that.
if you drive civil like a normal commuter and do not tax your equipment they may be perfectly adequate, but trust me, there is no way that a brake this tiny with small flat non vented rotor can stop a truck as powerful and as heavy as my R500 well enough to be considered anywhere near good from a high performance point of view. when it comes to performance these brakes were a joke, I've seen bigger brakes on little jap cars, these brakes were just no where near adequate for the R500 even when they were brand new. I'm not exaggerating when I say that my R500 was one of the worse stopping big cars I've ever driven, I think a Chevy suburban would even stop better than this thing did, maybe good enough for someone who drives like a soccer mom, but totally suck for us Mario Andretti wannabe types I'd say
I never drove an R350 or R320, certainly not aggressively enough to have any opinion so I can't really say anything about any other R class brakes, but I can say that I think the early R500's that came from Mercedes with the substandard non upgraded R500 brakes do not stop very well from what I've seen with my R
Last edited by turbocad6; 08-19-2013 at 05:14 AM.
08-19-2013, 08:34 PM
#28
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Ah, interesting about the factory brake upgrade. It must have been done for performance considerations, since the R320 is actually about 150 pounds heavier than the R500.
08-19-2013, 10:35 PM
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R500 + SLK55 AMG
Wow, did you buy your car pre-owned? You sure it came from the factory with those brakes? Are you certain a previous owner or a non Mercedes dealer reselling it didn't cheap out on a brake job? My 07 R500 has the factory spec 13.8" ventilated rotors up front and 13.0" ventilated rotors in the rear. And it stops just fine with good feel and control. And speaking of factory specs, the 2007 brochure lists the R500 at 4,917 lbs not the 5,300 lbs you quoted. 400 lbs is pretty far off the mark.
If I were going to gripe about anything to do with the brakes on any of the three Mercedes I've owned it would be the use of semi-metallic friction material which makes the cars stop great but generates more black dust faster than any other cars I've owned.
If I were going to gripe about anything to do with the brakes on any of the three Mercedes I've owned it would be the use of semi-metallic friction material which makes the cars stop great but generates more black dust faster than any other cars I've owned.
Last edited by Spud_Racer; 08-19-2013 at 10:51 PM.
08-20-2013, 01:29 AM
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2006 R500
it's pretty well documented that not all 2006 R500's came with the upgraded 13.8" front and vented rear rotors, as far as I know all 07's did, I think this was an early production issue, and yes, I'm fairly sure that no one decided to replace all 4 calipers and all 4 caliper mounting brackets with all the hardware and all 4 rotors, fully converting this thing to a smaller brake setup because they were trying to do a cheaper brake job. like I said this R has always been serviced by Mercedes with full service records and was in really great shape, never hit or molested or had multiple owners, it was owned by some guy who bought it straight from Mercedes for his wife to haul the kids around in and it was/is mint in every way and still had an extended warranty right up until I bought it and didn't even bother with the transfer of it to me because I don't want anyone else working on my car
even if 4,917 is the advertised "base curb weight" you'd then have to add ~200lb's in options, the pano roof and 3 zone climate probably being the worse offenders there. then I myself weight right around 200lb's, so even if I'm driving all alone and with no cargo at all and the R completely empty except for me driving, then still, yes, that's ~5,300lb's that is rolling down the road and this is what I said," this is a 5,300lb truck with over 300hp" was not an embellishment or exaggeration putting me way off the mark, it's exactly what it actually is at the very least.... ever drive with 4 or 5 people in your car? you can easily add another 500-800lb's+ to the total vehicle weight when you are carrying 3,4 or 5 adult passengers...
the R has the very likely potential to weigh over 6,000lb's when traveling down the road with a whole family and all there normal stuff on board and yes, even in those situations I'd still like to be able to stop well, if I'm flying then yes even more so, I'd still like the ability to stop very well. stating the 4,917lb's and telling me I'm way off the mark sounds like I may have offended here.
guys this thread is not about trying to put YOUR R down, if you are happy with the braking ability of your own R then I'm not trying to change your mind about that and there is no need to defend your braking ability here, the R is probably not the kind of car that most would drive like a sports car I guess, but I wanted mine to drive and perform like a big sports sedan personally, this is why I bought a 500 in the first place, and lowered it, and put bigger and wider wheels. I eventually want to add even more power... this R is pretty light on it's feet considering just how heavy it is, and it handles very well considering it's size, just like a big sports sedan should, the truck felt lighter than it is in every way, except when it came to stopping it, when stopping it before it felt like a big heavy vehicle trying to stop, before the brakes were a big limiting factor to driving it like a sports sedan, now they are not.
I only put this thread here in case anyone else isn't happy with the way there R class stops or if anyone else wanted to upgrade there own brakes. I put it here to share and I put it here to help others, my R was not a trashed car with the whole brake system raped from it and replaced with substandard stuff, it came that way straight from Mercedes. not my fault for just stating the facts here I'm sorry if my posts come off as putting any other R class down or if it seems like I'm exaggerating in any way here, I'm not, I've only stated my honest and professional opinions and facts here in the hopes it may help someone else.
the average guy isn't going to be able to just pick up some 8 piston Brembo calipers from an S55, rotors from an ML63 and get them to all just fit on there R class and work well unless it was sorted and developed by a professional first and then shared, that's all I was trying to do here with this thread, share something that I thought might benefit others.
and now since I'm posting, a little update after driving these new brakes for a few days now. best description I can give is they feel like silk, so smooth and effortless and excessively powerful, they really changed the whole driving dynamics in MY R, now it really does drive like a big sports sedan and adds a whole new level of confidence when it comes to driving fast and actually stopping I still say that they are just, WOW
when I get a chance soon I'd like to put up a template and specs for the rears and exact specs for parts required for the front conversion so anyone can duplicate this if they desire
even if 4,917 is the advertised "base curb weight" you'd then have to add ~200lb's in options, the pano roof and 3 zone climate probably being the worse offenders there. then I myself weight right around 200lb's, so even if I'm driving all alone and with no cargo at all and the R completely empty except for me driving, then still, yes, that's ~5,300lb's that is rolling down the road and this is what I said," this is a 5,300lb truck with over 300hp" was not an embellishment or exaggeration putting me way off the mark, it's exactly what it actually is at the very least.... ever drive with 4 or 5 people in your car? you can easily add another 500-800lb's+ to the total vehicle weight when you are carrying 3,4 or 5 adult passengers...
the R has the very likely potential to weigh over 6,000lb's when traveling down the road with a whole family and all there normal stuff on board and yes, even in those situations I'd still like to be able to stop well, if I'm flying then yes even more so, I'd still like the ability to stop very well. stating the 4,917lb's and telling me I'm way off the mark sounds like I may have offended here.
guys this thread is not about trying to put YOUR R down, if you are happy with the braking ability of your own R then I'm not trying to change your mind about that and there is no need to defend your braking ability here, the R is probably not the kind of car that most would drive like a sports car I guess, but I wanted mine to drive and perform like a big sports sedan personally, this is why I bought a 500 in the first place, and lowered it, and put bigger and wider wheels. I eventually want to add even more power... this R is pretty light on it's feet considering just how heavy it is, and it handles very well considering it's size, just like a big sports sedan should, the truck felt lighter than it is in every way, except when it came to stopping it, when stopping it before it felt like a big heavy vehicle trying to stop, before the brakes were a big limiting factor to driving it like a sports sedan, now they are not.
I only put this thread here in case anyone else isn't happy with the way there R class stops or if anyone else wanted to upgrade there own brakes. I put it here to share and I put it here to help others, my R was not a trashed car with the whole brake system raped from it and replaced with substandard stuff, it came that way straight from Mercedes. not my fault for just stating the facts here
I'm sorry if my posts come off as putting any other R class down or if it seems like I'm exaggerating in any way here, I'm not, I've only stated my honest and professional opinions and facts here in the hopes it may help someone else. the average guy isn't going to be able to just pick up some 8 piston Brembo calipers from an S55, rotors from an ML63 and get them to all just fit on there R class and work well unless it was sorted and developed by a professional first and then shared, that's all I was trying to do here with this thread, share something that I thought might benefit others.
and now since I'm posting, a little update after driving these new brakes for a few days now. best description I can give is they feel like silk, so smooth and effortless and excessively powerful, they really changed the whole driving dynamics in MY R, now it really does drive like a big sports sedan and adds a whole new level of confidence when it comes to driving fast and actually stopping
I still say that they are just, WOW when I get a chance soon I'd like to put up a template and specs for the rears and exact specs for parts required for the front conversion so anyone can duplicate this if they desire
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08-20-2013, 08:09 PM
#31
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turbocad6,
Thanks for sharing.
Good job on your upgraded brakes job.
It probably brakes better than R63.
Thanks for sharing.
Good job on your upgraded brakes job.
It probably brakes better than R63.
Last edited by AsianR350; 08-20-2013 at 08:16 PM.
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08-20-2013, 08:44 PM
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2006 R500
HA, I won't dare say that here, but I will say that if I ever do wind up having my own R63 I'll def be swapping the calipers out for these instead, but this only applies to MY R63, no offence intended towards any others
Last edited by turbocad6; 08-20-2013 at 08:47 PM.
08-21-2013, 11:15 PM
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R500 + SLK55 AMG
Base curb weight (4,917 lbs) is what's usually quoted because it allows some baseline for comparison. If you want a max weight choose the gross vehicle weight (6,382 lbs). Instead you've thrown out a number that seems completely arbitrary (5,300 lbs) and tried to justify it after the fact with rationalizing like optional equipment and 12.7 gallons of fuel and a 5 passenger load rather than admit you were wrong.
Hey, I can quote a Chrysler 300 up to 5,300 lbs at gross weight. But that's not what's generally used for comparisons. How would anyone know what your assumptions are to get to that arbitrary number you threw out?
Are your passengers fatter than my passengers? Do you carry 3 or 5 passengers? Does everyone have a pano roof? Do you quote a full fuel tank? Half? Three quarters? Do you include zero cargo? 500 lbs? 250 lbs? It gets pretty foggy pretty quickly. Which is why you'll never see a magazine review do what you're doing. Better to quote the curb weight and let owners fill in the blanks that only they can fill in for their situation.
Hey, I can quote a Chrysler 300 up to 5,300 lbs at gross weight. But that's not what's generally used for comparisons. How would anyone know what your assumptions are to get to that arbitrary number you threw out?
Are your passengers fatter than my passengers? Do you carry 3 or 5 passengers? Does everyone have a pano roof? Do you quote a full fuel tank? Half? Three quarters? Do you include zero cargo? 500 lbs? 250 lbs? It gets pretty foggy pretty quickly. Which is why you'll never see a magazine review do what you're doing. Better to quote the curb weight and let owners fill in the blanks that only they can fill in for their situation.
08-22-2013, 04:41 AM
#34
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2006 R500
me, alone, my car, I never spoke about ANY other R here in this thread at all, not yours and not his and not any or all of the other R classes out there, I only spoke about mine, and it is around 5,300 actual pounds, actual, not advertised base curb weight nor maximum curb weight, I said 5,300 pounds because that is what I drive every day in MY R and that is what I have to stop every day in MY R, what exactly is it that I'm wrong about or that you don't understand?? what nerve did I touch here?
if you are happy to think that every R class out there is exactly 4917 pounds well then good for you, they are all exactly 4917 pounds no problem. how this has anything to do with this thread though, that I don't know. what has you so fixated on me being wrong or "way off the mark" because I quoted my ACTUAL weight instead of some brochure listed GENERIC weight that would be wrong for MY R I don't know. why should I even care what is "normally quoted" or admit that I'm wrong because I stated my R's weight and it differs from what is normally quoted??
yeah, I think someone missed the whole point of this thread, it's not called defend your brakes, this thread is about upgrading them, says so right up there at the very top, you don't have to upgrade yours if they are spectacular and you are happy with them and you certainly do not have to defend them here either, this thread is for anyone interested in upgrading there brakes, how it came down to a 383 pound discrepancy from the official brochures stated generic weight I really just don't get at all but hey, that's the internetz for yah
oh, and just an FYI, the term BASE curb weight means that this is the BASE starting point, incase you didn't realize that, any actual vehicles weight will almost always be higher than the advertised BASE curb weight
if you are happy to think that every R class out there is exactly 4917 pounds well then good for you, they are all exactly 4917 pounds no problem. how this has anything to do with this thread though, that I don't know. what has you so fixated on me being wrong or "way off the mark" because I quoted my ACTUAL weight instead of some brochure listed GENERIC weight that would be wrong for MY R I don't know. why should I even care what is "normally quoted" or admit that I'm wrong because I stated my R's weight and it differs from what is normally quoted??
yeah, I think someone missed the whole point of this thread, it's not called defend your brakes, this thread is about upgrading them, says so right up there at the very top, you don't have to upgrade yours if they are spectacular and you are happy with them and you certainly do not have to defend them here either, this thread is for anyone interested in upgrading there brakes, how it came down to a 383 pound discrepancy from the official brochures stated generic weight I really just don't get at all but hey, that's the internetz for yah
oh, and just an FYI, the term BASE curb weight means that this is the BASE starting point, incase you didn't realize that, any actual vehicles weight will almost always be higher than the advertised BASE curb weight
Last edited by turbocad6; 08-22-2013 at 04:50 AM.
08-22-2013, 06:35 PM
#35
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2006 R500
"As loaves go, this is a whopper, with length and width dimensions up there with the largest of the minivans, give or take a fraction. Weight outwhops them all at 5225 pounds for our loaded sample."
from here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...r500-road-test go tell them they are wrong too
there are several other examples but I don't even feel the need to entertain this any longer because I know that I'm not the one who is wrong here or way off the mark, but I am curious to see if you will admit that you are wrong, or admit that you are nitpicking for whatever reason you may have to do so
anyway, I came here to add more specifics as to what anyone would need to do to upgrade their own brakes.
basically in a nutshell, if you are seeking just best bang for the buck in a serious upgrade without a lot of hassles then you could use just these front S55 calipers along with an R500 13.8" front rotor and it will bolt on fine and need nothing custom and nothing else. you may need a 5mm washer at the caliper mounts but I don't remember for sure and will check to confirm this. that is really all you'd need to do to upgrade. rears would be optional and NOT necessary to benefit from having much better stopping power, the rears would just be completing the package and making them even that much better, but are NOT mandatory.
~70% of your total stopping power comes from your front brakes and the fluid dynamics of the R class braking system matches the fluid dynamics of the S55 braking system so there are NO incompatibility issues, only that you really should obviously upgrade them in pairs and obviously the most beneficial and effective pair would be the fronts first and foremost, with the rears just being icing on the cake.
if you want to go further and do the rears that is a little trickier and you will have to have some custom machine work done. if you want to do 15.4" front rotors then you will need to have custom spacers machined as well. I will put up templates and specs so you can have a machine shop do these modifications, it's pretty straight forward as long as you have an accurate blueprint which I will provide as soon as I can get it uploaded.
Last edited by turbocad6; 08-22-2013 at 06:38 PM.
01-09-2014, 05:13 PM
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2007 BMW X5 4.4, 2008 ML63, 2005 S2000, 2011 impreza Sti, 2006 Evo IX, 2008 R320cdi
Hello, total newbie to this forum but now I have a R320cdi for work so doing a lot of reading lately, I was looking at this option for my R so really glad to have read your post. I've started to look for my parts and found a few on Ebay. Hope I have time to start my own post on my project soon.
01-19-2014, 11:36 AM
#37
This was great reading. Turbocat, thanks for posting. It's more of an undertaking than I would do. However, I would like to know more about your lowering kit. Mine has front coil springs, not full airmatic.
03-01-2014, 02:00 AM
#38
I came across a herd of deer tonight which decided to bolt out and try to cross the road as I was coming down. I applied the brakes and stopped just in time. A little too close for my comfort. I remembered this thread and the upgrade as soon as I was on my way.
I had the kids in the back as we were on our way to the skating rink. Ive had some time to think about the situation and replay the event over in my head a few times.
What I figured is the R's brakes were designed to maintain the delicate balance of stopping power, control and passenger safety.
The R did not jerk forward, the kids were not whipped forward either. And while the R did seem like it took forever to come to a stop (bcos the antilock brakes were doing its job) I realized that it did indeed have good stopping power. The distance from where I saw the first deer jump out to where I stopped was remarkably short. There were at least 8 deer that cross the street in front of me and a few others that decided not to try it even after I came to a complete stop in front of them.
So I wonder what would have been the real world results if I had the AMG upgraded brakes. Would the most important thing (safety/comfort of family in the cabin) invariably suffer to gain the shorter stopping distance? I think it would have.
I have been in vehicles where you would have to slam on the brakes and everything (peopel, books, pens, phones) are thrown to the front of the cabin. The R-class is the exact opposite of this.
I had the kids in the back as we were on our way to the skating rink. Ive had some time to think about the situation and replay the event over in my head a few times.
What I figured is the R's brakes were designed to maintain the delicate balance of stopping power, control and passenger safety.
The R did not jerk forward, the kids were not whipped forward either. And while the R did seem like it took forever to come to a stop (bcos the antilock brakes were doing its job) I realized that it did indeed have good stopping power. The distance from where I saw the first deer jump out to where I stopped was remarkably short. There were at least 8 deer that cross the street in front of me and a few others that decided not to try it even after I came to a complete stop in front of them.
So I wonder what would have been the real world results if I had the AMG upgraded brakes. Would the most important thing (safety/comfort of family in the cabin) invariably suffer to gain the shorter stopping distance? I think it would have.
I have been in vehicles where you would have to slam on the brakes and everything (peopel, books, pens, phones) are thrown to the front of the cabin. The R-class is the exact opposite of this.
03-01-2014, 10:17 AM
#39
Thank you for that posting. I see so many people want *upgrade the brakes* like that will help you stop your vehicle better.
The reality is, if you jam on the brakes to point you engage the antilock brakes you have the maximum braking power you can attain for the driving conditions youare in. If you can apply you brakes at X speed and you cannot engage the antilock brakes then you have insufficient braking power. You might see that if you are driving 100 mph and you need to make an emergency stop. I've not done that because in the US its frowned on to drive over the speed limit. Maybe in Germany????
The point is; if you are doing it for the novelty that is your business. if you are doing it for more braking power you need to look at tires as well because that factor determines the point your antil-lock brakes engage and you need to look at road conditions. you can have the best tires and brakes and whatever else, but if you are on water/snow/ice, you are not going to stop in less distance for the speed you are going than the tires can hold the road.
The reality is, if you jam on the brakes to point you engage the antilock brakes you have the maximum braking power you can attain for the driving conditions youare in. If you can apply you brakes at X speed and you cannot engage the antilock brakes then you have insufficient braking power. You might see that if you are driving 100 mph and you need to make an emergency stop. I've not done that because in the US its frowned on to drive over the speed limit. Maybe in Germany????
The point is; if you are doing it for the novelty that is your business. if you are doing it for more braking power you need to look at tires as well because that factor determines the point your antil-lock brakes engage and you need to look at road conditions. you can have the best tires and brakes and whatever else, but if you are on water/snow/ice, you are not going to stop in less distance for the speed you are going than the tires can hold the road.
09-15-2014, 02:51 PM
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2006 R500
I haven't been around the forums much lately but just figured I'd drop in and update this thread. since there really wasn't much interest here I never bothered posting up templates and blueprints, but most of the info is still here in this thread and if anyone else attempts something like this I'd be happy to offer whatever help I can.
Cucucachu, my R has airmatic and I lowered it by modifying the links, I think without airmatic you'd need to use H&R springs up front and do just the rear links
I'm really not looking to argue with anyone about the benefits of a big brake upgrade, anyone who thinks it's better to have brakes that don't stop well enough in a panic situation to even have the capability to throw all of the passengers forward probably isn't much of a candidate for a big brake upgrade to begin with, you probably don't want enough horsepower to cause whiplash or make your books and pens fly around either and that's fine too.... what I will say is this was not done as a novelty and the stopping distance of my R has been dramatically improved. not just improved a bit, it's a whole world of difference, night and day...
the stopping distance of a big vehicle like this with the stock brakes has nothing to do with ABS limiting it nor tire traction limiting it. now yes, with these big brakes those are the limitations, but before, stomp on the brake pedal and just wait for the car to slow down, little by little, hoping you stop in time... this is nothing like that
I just did new pads and refreshed the calipers in red this time, still need to do decals. in the past year these things have performed wonderful, absolutely one of the best upgrades I have done to my R
Cucucachu, my R has airmatic and I lowered it by modifying the links, I think without airmatic you'd need to use H&R springs up front and do just the rear links
I'm really not looking to argue with anyone about the benefits of a big brake upgrade, anyone who thinks it's better to have brakes that don't stop well enough in a panic situation to even have the capability to throw all of the passengers forward probably isn't much of a candidate for a big brake upgrade to begin with, you probably don't want enough horsepower to cause whiplash or make your books and pens fly around either and that's fine too.... what I will say is this was not done as a novelty and the stopping distance of my R has been dramatically improved. not just improved a bit, it's a whole world of difference, night and day...
the stopping distance of a big vehicle like this with the stock brakes has nothing to do with ABS limiting it nor tire traction limiting it. now yes, with these big brakes those are the limitations, but before, stomp on the brake pedal and just wait for the car to slow down, little by little, hoping you stop in time... this is nothing like that
I just did new pads and refreshed the calipers in red this time, still need to do decals. in the past year these things have performed wonderful, absolutely one of the best upgrades I have done to my R
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ajax50 (02-07-2022)
08-01-2016, 06:57 AM
#46
drove her more yesterday and broke them in/bedded a bit more, then I decided to try to really see what these brakes can do and to push it a bit harder...
up until this point I have only feathered the pedal and in realty with how well these things work you really will never even need to do more than ever feather the pedal, as that alone will allow you to stop on a dime, but I wanted to see what more pressure would do
I took her up to around 60 and decided to try a quick harder jab of the pedal. well at 60 I gave her a quick medially firm jab and release, and the results, full and immediate wheel lock up, screeched all four tires with ease for that instant that I jabbed the pedal... wow, so I tried it again at up to 70mph and again, I can just fully lock up the wheels at will. this is on completely dry clean pavement on a warm summers eave where traction is very high
I'm not talking about really leaning into the pedal very hard even, I'm just talking about just firmly jabbing the pedal. from how well it feels an responds I think that I can lock up the wheels at will at any given time and at any speed , so what this means is that the braking ability is no longer the limiting factor and this brake setup is literally as good as a braking system could possibly be, the brakes no longer have any limits, and the limits now just come down to tire traction to the road and the laws of physics.
some of you may think I'm exaggerating but I'm telling you, this is not so. these brakes have just blown me away. if anyone doubts my account here then I welcome any local R class owner considering doing something like this the invitation to actually come and try mine. I could also shoot a quick clip and throw it up on youtube showing how I can just lock up the wheels easily at highway speeds... I honestly do not post any of this to show off, I just want to really communicate and share with you just how incredible this brake setup is on the R.
my R has went from being one of the worse stopping big heavy vehicles I've ever driven to being the absolute best stopping big heavy vehicle I have ever driven bar none.in the first month of ownership of my R I actually smashed the front of my R because it just couldn't stop. the front of my R is still smashed because to me it was more of a priority to fix the brakes than it was to even fix my bumper or replace the grille. now that it can finally stop as good as it goes I'll think about replacing the grille and fixing the bumper
if anyone here ever decided they wanted to pursue something like this I'd be very happy to help with any info I can provide to help you do the same. for what amounted to a little over 2 grand I have fully transformed my R's performance. I'm sorry if I sound like a little kid gushing over a new toy but really I'm just trying to communicate just how awesome these brakes are and to fully get the point across as to just how frigging AMAZING the R class can be made to stop with the right brake setup. I think someone here once said to me to not expect the R to ever stop like a true high performance car, well it can and it actually does...
up until this point I have only feathered the pedal and in realty with how well these things work you really will never even need to do more than ever feather the pedal, as that alone will allow you to stop on a dime, but I wanted to see what more pressure would do
I took her up to around 60 and decided to try a quick harder jab of the pedal. well at 60 I gave her a quick medially firm jab and release, and the results, full and immediate wheel lock up, screeched all four tires with ease for that instant that I jabbed the pedal... wow, so I tried it again at up to 70mph and again, I can just fully lock up the wheels at will. this is on completely dry clean pavement on a warm summers eave where traction is very high
I'm not talking about really leaning into the pedal very hard even, I'm just talking about just firmly jabbing the pedal. from how well it feels an responds I think that I can lock up the wheels at will at any given time and at any speed , so what this means is that the braking ability is no longer the limiting factor and this brake setup is literally as good as a braking system could possibly be, the brakes no longer have any limits, and the limits now just come down to tire traction to the road and the laws of physics.
some of you may think I'm exaggerating but I'm telling you, this is not so. these brakes have just blown me away. if anyone doubts my account here then I welcome any local R class owner considering doing something like this the invitation to actually come and try mine. I could also shoot a quick clip and throw it up on youtube showing how I can just lock up the wheels easily at highway speeds... I honestly do not post any of this to show off, I just want to really communicate and share with you just how incredible this brake setup is on the R.
my R has went from being one of the worse stopping big heavy vehicles I've ever driven to being the absolute best stopping big heavy vehicle I have ever driven bar none.in the first month of ownership of my R I actually smashed the front of my R because it just couldn't stop. the front of my R is still smashed because to me it was more of a priority to fix the brakes than it was to even fix my bumper or replace the grille. now that it can finally stop as good as it goes I'll think about replacing the grille and fixing the bumper
if anyone here ever decided they wanted to pursue something like this I'd be very happy to help with any info I can provide to help you do the same. for what amounted to a little over 2 grand I have fully transformed my R's performance. I'm sorry if I sound like a little kid gushing over a new toy but really I'm just trying to communicate just how awesome these brakes are and to fully get the point across as to just how frigging AMAZING the R class can be made to stop with the right brake setup. I think someone here once said to me to not expect the R to ever stop like a true high performance car, well it can and it actually does...
hello
what rotors you use for rear?345x26 from ml63 amg w166 or 365x26 from ml 63 w164?
rear caliper holes from middle to middle is 7.5 cm or 9cm?
hope for quick response
08-06-2016, 08:36 PM
#47
Former Vendor of MBWorld
You can see from his caliper modification which he had to relocate the caliper mounting holes to accommodate for the change of rotor diameters, in addition to offset (This used caliper was from a 360mm rear rotor set up with 75mm spread)
Both W164 and W166 share the same rear spindle - The caliper mounting hole spread is 90mm.
For those who are not handy and looking for a complete bolt on BBK may check our BBK upgrade offer for both W166 and W164 here.
http://www.racingbrake.com/category-s/7280.htm
Front - 6 piston fixed caliper with 390x36mm light weigh two piece rotors.
Rear - 4 piston with 390x30mm two piece rotors.
Let us know if we can be of help.
The most comprehensive brake upgrade store on earth for Mercedes.
www.racingbrake.com
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ajax50 (02-07-2022)
12-15-2017, 09:56 PM
#48
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: So. Cal.
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'02 C320 Wagon, '78 308 GTS, '06 Highlander Hybrid
Resurrecting an oldie but goodie...
Great detail and work Turbocad.
I've got an '09 ML550 and would love to do something similar. I have 13.8" fronts and 13.0" rear rotors. Sounds like the S55 calipers (with a slight spacer) might do the trick. One thought that I had was my old 2002 C320 wagon had a front C32 AMG set up on it. The conversion made a huge difference and I was very impressed. These were monoblock 4 piston calipers on a 13.6" rotor. I'm not sure of the mounting hole spread, but any thoughts if you think that this would work? The rotor size difference I think would be negligible. I'm not sure about the total swept area of between my OEM 2 piston sliding caliper and the 4 piston C32 set up. But assuming that they are the same, I would think that I would get a bit more clamping force with the 4 piston set up...also, they are much prettier than the OEM sliding calipers.
Any thoughts anyone?
Great detail and work Turbocad.
I've got an '09 ML550 and would love to do something similar. I have 13.8" fronts and 13.0" rear rotors. Sounds like the S55 calipers (with a slight spacer) might do the trick. One thought that I had was my old 2002 C320 wagon had a front C32 AMG set up on it. The conversion made a huge difference and I was very impressed. These were monoblock 4 piston calipers on a 13.6" rotor. I'm not sure of the mounting hole spread, but any thoughts if you think that this would work? The rotor size difference I think would be negligible. I'm not sure about the total swept area of between my OEM 2 piston sliding caliper and the 4 piston C32 set up. But assuming that they are the same, I would think that I would get a bit more clamping force with the 4 piston set up...also, they are much prettier than the OEM sliding calipers.
Any thoughts anyone?
03-01-2019, 07:47 AM
#49
[/QUOTE]Basically in a nutshell, if you are seeking just best bang for the buck in a serious upgrade without a lot of hassles then you could use just these front S55 calipers along with an R500 13.8" front rotor and it will bolt on fine and need nothing custom and nothing else. you may need a 5mm washer at the caliper mounts but I don't remember for sure and will check to confirm this. that is really all you'd need to do to upgrade[QUOTE]
Hello turbocad, I just wanted to confirm as I have an early 06 R500 with the solid rotors on rear and 13" front brake rotors and stopping acts like front drum brakes! I am very interested in going with S55 from calipers and 13.8" rotors on the front of these will bolt on with a 5mm washer at the caliper mounts. Thank you for all the R&D you have done with these R class brakes! I do only have 17" R350 wheels on my R500 at the moment (bought the car like that) so will S55 calipers clear the 17" wheels?
Hello turbocad, I just wanted to confirm as I have an early 06 R500 with the solid rotors on rear and 13" front brake rotors and stopping acts like front drum brakes! I am very interested in going with S55 from calipers and 13.8" rotors on the front of these will bolt on with a 5mm washer at the caliper mounts. Thank you for all the R&D you have done with these R class brakes! I do only have 17" R350 wheels on my R500 at the moment (bought the car like that) so will S55 calipers clear the 17" wheels?
09-22-2019, 11:46 AM
#50
Senior Member
Better front brakes?
Basically in a nutshell, if you are seeking just best bang for the buck in a serious upgrade without a lot of hassles then you could use just these front S55 calipers along with an R500 13.8" front rotor and it will bolt on fine and need nothing custom and nothing else. you may need a 5mm washer at the caliper mounts but I don't remember for sure and will check to confirm this. that is really all you'd need to do to upgrade
Hello turbocad, I just wanted to confirm as I have an early 06 R500 with the solid rotors on rear and 13" front brake rotors and stopping acts like front drum brakes! I am very interested in going with S55 from calipers and 13.8" rotors on the front of these will bolt on with a 5mm washer at the caliper mounts. Thank you for all the R&D you have done with these R class brakes! I do only have 17" R350 wheels on my R500 at the moment (bought the car like that) so will S55 calipers clear the 17" wheels?
Hello turbocad, I just wanted to confirm as I have an early 06 R500 with the solid rotors on rear and 13" front brake rotors and stopping acts like front drum brakes! I am very interested in going with S55 from calipers and 13.8" rotors on the front of these will bolt on with a 5mm washer at the caliper mounts. Thank you for all the R&D you have done with these R class brakes! I do only have 17" R350 wheels on my R500 at the moment (bought the car like that) so will S55 calipers clear the 17" wheels?
