focalxplosion

Thanks! The dirt and stains were no match for my pressure washer. It also gave me a chance to vacuum and scrub UNDER the carpet. that its definitely where the spilled drinks, loose change, dog hair, and even broken glass ended up. I spent a total of about 16 hours on the job, but it seemed worth it. The interior is now almost new car fresh, just a few more blemishes to address.

Side note, is there any easy way to rotate pictures?

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

16 hours!?!?! You truly love your R63 as all of us here do lol.

For me, my R63 > 997 Turbo > RS6 Avant > Cayenne Turbo 😬

I understand your labour of love 👍🏻

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

But one thing you really need to address if it’s not been done....updated head bolts.

I’m still waiting on my ARP head studs... so I drive the R63 only as needed and sparingly.

Watch your coolant level and if you get excessive white smoke on startup.

focalxplosion

It has a date with the dealer on Friday. Mercedes of Portland is doing it for about $2,000. I have a bunch of other issues to address so this will not be a cheap date.

As for removal, start by unbolting the seats with an E-Torx socket. Remove the front and rear center consoles next. everything else is pretty much snapped in. Be patient removing the plastics and pry gently to avoid breaking them. I think I could do the job in half the time if I had to do it over, but I didn't have a shop manual so it took a while to figure out the proper order of operations.

As for the effort, I grew up with project cars. You buy them for the journey, not the return on investment. I'll be satisfied when I can get this as close to factory fresh as my budget allows and then hopefully enjoy it for many years to come. I've done the same with my house, though I expect a much better return on investment there.

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

If the dealer is already opening up your engine, consider having them replace the cam cap bolts and the 4 phaser bolts. These also can stretch and turn over time and cause excessive wear. And check your buckets too if there is excessive wear from the cams.

1955W196S

Great job! Looking forward to hearing the results of the trip to the MB dealer. That light colored carpet really shows the dirt. Now it looks like new. The advantage to the black carpet is that it doesn't show dirt. My problem is that for whatever reason, my R63 seems to be a cat magnet. Every time I leave the door open, when I turn around I find my cat inside. I have paw prints on the seats and carpets. But that is much easier to clean up.

Thanks for sharing your R63 experience. Keep the photos coming.

focalxplosion

***Update***

Really this is a nearly worst case scenario here. At a minimum it will need one new cam and all cam followers replaced. Then there are the "while you are in there" recommendations. I'm looking to get all four camshafts, all four cam adjusters, and all 32 cam followers replaced as well as most of the bolts holding these bits together...This will not be inexpensive.

I'm still waiting on pricing from the parts department and hoping they have some sympathy on me.

I guess the good news is this most everything else looks pretty good. This car had a history of transmission problems, but the master tech working on it believes it is in fine shape other than needing a full transmission service. I think also this motor will be good for another 100k miles once it's all done.

1955W196S

Please continue to keep us posted. I don't think mine has had the head bolts replaced yet, and I'm wondering about when to do it and how to finance it.

focalxplosion

The head bolts weren't too expensive, but once you open up the engine you might discover other problems. You could always cross your fingers and pay close attention to any sign of trouble. There are warning signs and I think if you are careful you can put it off for a while. I just wasn't willing to take the chance, especially as I plan to take it on trips pretty far from home. Also, the work that I'm having done is still far less than a new motor.

1955W196S

I bought mine in Sweden and drove it 1500 miles home to the south of France with no problems (except for work on the autobahn which made me late for my appointment to tour the AMG factory in Affalterbach). Mechanically it seems to be running beautifully at the moment, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and praying. When I finally get it done, I'm debating on whether to use the newer head bolts or to go with the Weistec head studs, the SLS black series lifters, etc. Weistec has a bunch of improved parts, but the price adds up quickly. So I'm eager to see how it goes for you. If possible, please post photos of the work (taking it apart, fixing it, and putting it back together).

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

That's not good news but unfortunately, not surprising as these are known issues, especially with the cams grinding against the valve buckets. If you replace everything stock, eventually, these issues will come back either 10,000 miles from now or 100,000 miles depending on luck really. I do know the "permanent" fix for the worn cams/buckets is to go to the SLS series buckets - they have a coating that minimizes wear and the newer design holds oil for cold start up better. An even better solution are the SLS Black Series buckets (which I am doing).

I myself am still waiting on the ARP Head studs which should be enroute to me this week. Once here, I'll be doing the head gaskets, Black Series buckets along with ARP Cam bolts, ARP Phaser bolts and ARP Head studs. Given my car still has less than 10,000 miles, I am hoping that there will be little wear on the camshafts if any.

Keep us posted on the progress and the cost if you don't mind. Regardless, whatever you spend will be much less than had it turned out to be another Unicorn of "Your" Destruction.

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

You should do the updated head bolts sooner rather than later. A set of OEM head bolts - 156-016-07-69 - are not too expensive ($200USD), and some have had great success with doing
the one bolt at at time method which minimizes labour cost.

Also, there are headbolts made by Elring Klinger - 906.610 - which are about $100-110USD. They look exactly the same as the OEM Mercedes bolts and some say, are indeed the same. Many suspect that Mercedes sources their head bolts from Elring Klinger but no one knows for sure.

Personally, if I were sourcing my own head bolts, for the $90 difference in cost, I would buy OEM from Mercedes. But I suspect many service shops that do the head bolts simply order the Elring due to costs.

focalxplosion

focalxplosion

So you can see there was some corrosion on some of the head bolts, but the real mystery is the carbon deposit on just one head bolt. The master tech said he hadn’t seen that before and he’s torn into plenty of these engines.

We also discovered that one of the previous owners had taken off the valve covers and over torqued one of the cam bolts. It was stripped out and there was evidence of some sort of thread lock on it. The odd thing is that the heads show no sign of damage to the threads.

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the detailed pictures. Looks like a very labour intensive and expensive job - sorry to hear about these issues. Strange to see carbon deposits on that single bolt - could there have been a leak nearby at one point?

The headbolts don't look too bad considering the mileage and don't seem like they will break off anytime soon. Also since you are already in there, have you thought about installing a catch can - I'm ordering one for mine as well: https://www.vrpspeed.com/product/oilcc-2/

1955W196S

Thanks for all the photos and the information to go with them. Did they drop the engine a little, or did they get everything off with the engine in place?

@rbtmak I would like to get the head bolts changed (probably with the ARP head studs and replace the valve buckets/lifters with the ones from the SLS Black series, but the cost is huge. Unfortunately we have had some unexpected home repairs, so I am waiting for the moment. Fortunately, none of my cars, including the R63 is getting much use at the moment, though I hope that will change in a month or so.

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

@1955W196S,
I think just installing the factory updated head bolts and SLS buckets reduces the parts cost by about 60% compared to installing ARP studs and Black Series buckets.

I am only going the ARP/Black Series route because of the future potential to install a supercharger.

If I definitively decided against supercharging, I would simply install the updated Mercedes bolts and SLS buckets.

focalxplosion

This was my thinking exactly. We are installing the updated cams, lifters, and cam adjusters but they are all factory parts.

BTW, spoiler...we decided to replace all of the above rather than risk returning a used adjuster back into the motor and having it fail in the near future.

So here is my question to the crowd: Is my car now worth more than I paid for it and if so how much? Here are the factors to consider:

Auction Listing

1. Maintenance history - there was none during the auction, only the word of the owner. I now have the VMI report that shows extensive dealer servicing right up until 2018!
   1. Documented replacement of secondary fuel pump and water pump in interim
2. Dealer repair since purchase
   1. Replaced ALL camshafts, lifters, camshaft adjusters, and headbolts.
   2. Sealed lower oil pan with new gasket and drain plug fixing oil leak
   3. Full transmission service which corrected all previous know transmission complaints
3. Complete interior refurbishment
   1. Full leather restoration
   2. Epic carpet cleaning with pressure washer

So with all those things done and nearly every deficiency corrected is this a $25k car, maybe even $30k? I'm not entertaining the idea of selling, but I would like to think that my investment into this car is somewhere near break even. The last owner drove it for two years and poured money into it but only got out of it for what he owed. I think there were too many questions in the auction to push the value higher. Have I resolved those open questions in a way that puts this car's value in line with other sales?

1955W196S

That's an interesting question about the value. Unfortunately the only way to know would be to sell it and see what it brings. You could get an idea by looking at what other R63s are selling for (not asking prices, but actual selling prices), but as there are so few for sale at any given moment, that is hard to know.. Long term, I think you will be able to recoup your investment, but for the moment, it is difficult to know if the R63s are still slowing dropping in value, if they have reached a plateau, or if they are (or soon will) start to go up in value. They are rare, but they are still a niche vehicle. Most collectors would rather have a full on sports car, rather than a 500 hp minivan. That said, I do think that having the head bolts and other engine parts replaced, would raise the value (but not necessarily in the amount that you paid for the repairs). It would also make it easier to sell, if you decided to sell, because the next owner wouldn't have to worry that the engine would explode before he could get it to his mechanic.

focalxplosion

There are definitely too few sales to make a strong correlation, but I think the chart here does imply that we are at the bottom of the depreciation curve. BaT has 14 sales and 4 RNM's over the last three years. Accounting for variations in millage and condition I think a typical car sale is around $30k. This also suggests to me that further investment beyond maintenance will not have much return.

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

Typically, any money that you put into maintenance has no defined resale value and most buyers won't pay you more for it.

In terms of your servicing - head bolts in particular - they absolutely will help sell the car to a buyer. To me, what you have done to the car would have me buying it over a similar car without the same servicing. I would easily pay $5000 over for all the work you have done. But that's just me - an informed buyer will see the value and in the small but fanatical pool of buyers for R63, the headbolts are a make or break factor. With no documented headbolts done, I think most buyers will simply subtract $5000 from the asking price.

Should you sell your R63 now, I would not sell it for a penny under $25,000. List it for $30k and sell for anything between.

BTW, do you mind sharing what you paid for parts and labour to do all this work at the dealer?

focalxplosion

I completely concur with everything you have said. I’ve seen higher mileage cars than mine go for $25k without all the work so I think $30k is a reasonable ask today.

I also agree that for most cars the maintenance just doesn’t return, but I also think the majority of R63 buyers know what to look for and are willing to pay a premium to get it.

i don’t have the final bill yet, but it should be right around $8k. About $4,500 was absolutely necessary and the other $3,500 was for the three cams and four cam adjusters that could have been put back but did show some wear.

if you don’t mind me asking, what did you pay for your R63?

rbtmak

iTrader: (1)

I paid about USD$40,000 for my R63 due to its low mileage (9500 miles). I've put in another $10,000 in parts/labour and prevenatative maintenance for the engine. Also, full service such as spark plugs, coolant, filters, enlarged transmission pan, brake fluid, differential oil etc etc.

Finally, another $10,000 in parts such as the Brembo brakes/ 21" Wheels. All in, I'm at about $60,000 USD but I do feel the car is better than new with the most serious of its inherent weaknesses permanently resolved.

Like you, I intend to keep the car for the forseeable future, but the future may change and should the day come to sell it, essentially, the $20,000 on top of the $40,000 purchase price is mostly gone. I think to the right buyer, the ARP Studs/Camshaft bolts/Phaser bolts and the Black Series buckets would be worth $5,000. Assuming the R63 simply holds its value, I'd expect my R63 to sell for about $45,000 as I don't expect to put more than 2000 miles/year on this car. At any point in the future, I still hope my car will have the lowest mileage of all other R63s and retain its value.

focalxplosion

I think you got a steal at 40k, nice job! When that day comes, please give me a call. I also drive about 2k miles per year. I run almost twice that! I’d be very interested in your car from a collectible standpoint.

focalxplosion

Update - The Thunder Wagon is home and it drives fantastic! The new cams, lifters, and phasers have definitely quieted the clatter under the hood, though the butt dyno hasn’t revealed a performance difference. However, the big revelation was the transmission. The MB tech discovered that the transmission was significantly under-filled and needed to be retrained. He performed a full service and retraining. It’s been a revelation. The driving experience is so much better and really put to rest the past transmission concerns about this car.

I also requested and received a very heavy box with all the old parts. I’ll pull out some of the worst offenders tomorrow and snag some pictures, but I’m definitely satisfied with my decision to drop so much money on this car. Anyone considering a high-mileage M156 engine ought to set aside a significant amount of money for a top-end refresh.

Now onto today’s work, I decided to investigate the failure of Keyless Go. Unbeknownst to me, the R-class seems to enjoy filling the spare tire well with water. It took a little bit to investigate, but I finally discovered the source. Much to my surprise, the water travels down the rain gutters into the hatch area. It then travels down the hatch opening, under the hatch seal, over the body seam, and then a small amount exits inside the body from under the seal near the latch and down into the well. I’m struggling to post pictures at the moment, but they will come soon.

At any rate, the wiring harness has significant corrosion and the Keyless Go module is totally shot. I first need to address the leak. I have read that there should be a sealant under the rubber seal. Does anyone know what that is and where to source it? Once that is sorted I’m going to de-pin the connectors and rebuild the harnesses while also sourcing a new Keyless Go module. Then I’ll be back to the dealer to reprogram the new module and potentially get a couple new keys as mine are in pretty poor shape.