Accord

A Mercedes-Benz is an expensive Chrysler? This statement alone proves that you know nothing about Mercedes-Benz.

So just because Mercedes-Benz releases an entry level vehicle, you automatically assume they copied BMW? Wrong again! They made a smart marketing move, which greatly increased sales of Mercedes-Benz vehicles to get people into the Mercedes-Benz lineup. Someone will buy a C230k, and most likely their next vehicle will be a higher end Mercedes-Benz. Very smart move on the part of Mercedes-Benz.

No, the "Check Engine" light is not on, but the ESP light is always lit up on my S600 .

You know "SO" many people think the LS430 is stunning? They must have low standards.

To the average American car buyer, Lexus has always been considered a German (MB/BMW) knock-off. Whether you want to beleive it or not, it is the truth.

The mature debate was immediately ceased by your childish name calling.

Grow up.

Accord

The past few posts that you have made really show your true charector and lack of knowledge.

You were comparing the LS430 to the S600 for just about every single post you made, not the S430.

Better yet, mabye I should wait until 2007 when the S-Class is completely redesigned .

Enough of your tantrums, now to get back on topic...

KrispyK, please let us know what you decide on!

JFawwaz

just get an LS430 and stick an MB 3 pointed star on it and jthose old guys at the country club wont know the difference!

Accord

LOL, I can't argue with that!

lex400sc

Explain to me again how an LS430 or even an LS400 is an expensive/overpriced Toyota??? And what's wrong with it being a Toyota? Last I checked they made the most reliable cars on the road. Is it because you can't see yourself in a car made by the same manufacturer as an Echo or Tercel? Well I hope you know Mercedes makes cheap *** $12,000 economy cars in Europe to. But it's because of people like you that Mercedes absolutely won't sell those cars in the United States. It is because of you that Toyota has to make a new luxury division called Lexus, Honda has to make Acura, and Nissan, Inifiniti. People have no problem buying a Toyota Celsior in Japan. But Americans are so self-conscious about status and image that they somehow think Mercedes is better than Lexus just because it needlessly costs more. So untrue .

Anyway, I digress. So you have a problem with Lexus being an "expensive Toyota"? Let me just outline things for you. True that some Lexuses were based off Toyota-model platforms---seems like a wise move from a business standpoint. The ES is based off a Camry, the SC is based off a Supra, the LX a Land Cruiser, GS an Avalon, etc, but the LS was based off of NO Toyota. It was completely designed and built from scratch. The engine was designed specifically for the LS400 at a cost of about $400 million in R&D. What do you know, homework does pay off... It's pretty much the most reliable V-type engine that ever existed. Oh well, good try Mercedes! The chassis, the tranny, the engine, everything in the LS400 was completely original. Every since it was eligible for JD Power testing, it has headed the top of all the luxury sedan lists. Yet you are still too blind to see the LS on the same level as the S-class---even though by all measures it is in fact SUPERIOR. Looks like you've been reading one too many (heavily-biased) German car magazines

Caliz_Finest

superior? oh really? ive driven both cars and i do not think so

Accord

I too have driven both, infact I own one of them . I had to endure a numerous hour drive in an LS430 before, and I would have much rather been in the cozy, reclining back seat of my S600 getting a nice massage; opposed to the stiff, park bench seat of the LS430.

S55inPA

hello everyone,

i will say this....this thread is the best trhead in a long time!

ok....i have owned 27 automobiles so i think i can add something to this debate.

5-german
7-american
15-japanese

let's face it , back in the late 80's the japanese had probably the best reliability. that has since changed. all auto manufacturers produce above average quality cars today. quality they could only dream of just 10 years ago. so when it comes to lexus being so superior in the reliability area i just can't agree. all cars are built pretty well today. when it comes to a purchase it basically comes down to style, price, and content of a vehicle.
before i purchased my s55 i test drove an ls430. very nice interior but ....bland on the outside. i came away feeling it was for someone much older than me. it didn't have any passion in the sheet metal. i'm sure some love the design but most would probably agree that it is sedate at best. so when comes to what to buy.....quality....they all good. purchase a car that grabs your eye...are that wasn't designed while on sleep medication!

Caliz_Finest

its a nice car but i think of the ls430 more as a car to put miles on and drive to work and school, etc.. and the S class as a weekend car or something

vraa

ok my uncles just had a party.. a lot of us "younger guys" 14-23 years old, got bored and we started driving all the cars and stuff.. its not like we're racing.. just revving.. not harm to the cars were done during this time.. lol

ls430 and a s500.. not only did the 500 sound cooler while stopped inside it was quieter and also it had that one thing.. just can't pinpoint it that let it make everyone know that LOOK AT ME YALL, I AM A BENZ!

sl500 vs sc430.. hands down the sl won.. lol

we also did clk430 vs is300.. the is 300 sounded louader but the clk had 19's so it was a draw there.. lol

then we got a couple Caddalic CTS's and tried them out on the forgien sedans.. HAHAH that was fun.. u shoulda seen the looks on everyone's faces.. they were like.. GET OUTTA HERE! the poor man thought we hated him after he left..

all in all i wasted three 128mb memory sticks with photos and i cant find those anymore.. but it was fun.. we had maybe 40 people in the street just revving up cars.. but unfortunetly lots of us just got to sit shotgun because we're under 16.. darn.. lol i got to be the sl500 show man tho because it was "mine"


fact is after thourgh testing the ls430 was nice but wasn't upto par for having the toyota name behind it.. it doesnt go as far as it could on the lexus (luxary) name and doesn't go far on the toyota (power) name..

lex400sc

Accord, I don't get you point?? Lexus was the first to put ginsu massagers in seatbacks, in fact, they put them in all five seat backs. Also comparing seat motors on cars, my 1995 SC400 has more motors and adjustment positions than my mom's 1997 E320. Also noteworthy is that Araco is a Toyota subsidary in Virginia that manufactures all Toyota/Lexus seats and is a leather tannery as well. Araco if you're not familiar makes the highest endurance automobile seats out of any car maker. Yes, they outlast Benz leather, Bimmer leather, Bentley leather.

S55inPA, have you read this thread???? ...

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=15777

I have never heard of such a problematic car, and that's just a recent thread! If you combined all the actual failures/manfunctions/problems/issues ever reported on all of ClubLexus into ONE single thread, it would not hold a candle to the problems described the the aformentioned thread. Not exaggerating! Another wonderful site that outlines German quality... http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm 67 reported failures of a brand new E46 engine within the first 15k miles. Most involved cracked head gaskets, snapped connecting rods, head corrosion, useage of recycled parts---the most rudimentary problems! This doesn't even include the massive electrical problems inherant in Bimmers! That is truly laughable!! One report tells of a guy going to his dealership and the service foreman telling him there are 28 engines on backorder for that dealership alone. Hah!

I would personally NEVER own a German car beyond it's warranty period. They've gotten the engineering and design down, but their manufacturing process is just way too half-assed for my tastes. Almost everything is subcontracted out to cheap b-grade companies. Toyota has everything made under the same umbrella corporation. They have their own metal foundries, aluminum processing plant, robot assembly plants, leather tanneries, etc. 100% integrated, in-house controlled production.

Final note, let's keep in mind that this car is a gift for a 60-year-old couple, not some attention-starved, mid-life crisis 40-year-old yuppy .

Toog4me

Well the fact that you've said that Lexus has copied MB a ton of times, now your saying copying is not a bad thing....

vraa

nice catch toog ! lol

VVT-i

If you look at Lex400SC's sig. You will see the quad headlight on the SC since 1992 and the main headlight is sweep into the fender.
Back in 1989 all of the MB have square headlight( all in one housing) and the body is kindda square too. In 1996-97 the E-class was introduced with quad headlight and the MB becomes more rounded or aerodynamic shape. The designed of the headlight is more like it trying to sweep in the fender just like the SC...I wish I have the photos of the 1989 MB line up. Square body, square headlight and now they're more rounded shape.
When Lexus introduced the 1998 GS, everybody said they copy the quad headlight from the E-class..ummm.Look at Lex400SC' sig. again. You will find out that where's MB come up with quad headlight and the main headlight on the S-class is sweeping into the fender.

S55inPA

hey guys,

ok...yuppie...ohhhh that hurt!!!!

lex400sc

Actually the SC400 was released in mid-91 as a '92 model, but they were working on the design back in '89 nevertheless. Here's a '92 300E for comparison purposes

lex400sc

'91 350SD

lex400sc

If I'm not mistaken, the SC was the first car to use halogen projectors as well.


ha, ha???

Juke-box

hmm...looks very tense in this thread...

in trying to shed some light......i would say both LS and the S classes are very competent vehicles. but it comes down to only personal preference. i have both teh LS and the S class in my garage. they are both great cars, but the S class is more of a "drivers" car, there is NO road feel whatsoever, and the motor is truly dissapointing, although maintenance free, i don't think the car pulls as nicely as the S500, or the E430 motor, it feels light and weak. But on the other hand, the LS' interior kicks butt compared to the older generation S class. and the reliability of this vehicle is a little better than the current S class, although both are very very reliable imo.

the s class also has some faults, but only mainly reliability, other than that, i think the S class is perfect.

IMO= S class wins the LS because Lexus has a non-responsive engine and not much road feel. But don't get me wrong, both are great cars.

Juke

S55inPA

hey guys,

ok...yuppie...ohhhh that hurt!!!!
it may suprise you...i'm only 38.
first off..every ....and i mean every mechanical process will have failures. oh yeah.... and that even means toyota. i have owned 6 toyotas. guess what....almost each one after i owned it had serious engine or transmission failure right around the 100000 mile mark. these vehicles included 3 supras 96 to 99(head gasket and total transmission failure) 2 forerunners 89-92 (headgasket)and 1 camry(no know problems). toyota has what is called silent recalls. they will only cover the failure completely when engine failure occurs before 100000 miles. after that point they will cover half of the engine overhall. .how do i know this? i take such good care of my cars that usually family members purchase these vehicles when i sell them. oh...lets not forget about the engine sludge problem facing the new toyota siennas. slugde so thick that engines are blowing before they are even off lease. so when it comes to nightmare stories every automaker has them. and does toyota stand behind these problems....only when they have to. they don't even have the courtesy to inform the people who purchase there vehicles ahead of time. great company!!!!
so when it comes to quality.....lexus in the end is no better. they just have a better cheerleading section. my guess is people who by benz's have the intellect to understand this simple equation.

S55inPA

i'm not sure what year or model mercedes but...the quad head light design was applied to mercedes automobiles from the 50's on. someone with more knowledge of the heritage of mercedes benz could give the model number of the sedans that had them.
who know's.....maybe they copied them off of toyota????

Juke-box

LOL!! did MB even know of such company in the 50's? or were they seeing their sales drop and started prounouncing slowly...To-yo-taa?!

S55inPA

for as much as i enjoy some good discussion it seems very strange to me that anyone who purchases a lexus feels it is anywhere near the equal of a mercedes benz. i'm mean...i could understand if someone who owns a bmw wanted to go back and forth about quality and stying, but a lexus!!! get real!!!!
nice cars for the buck...that's all they are...a bargain car....a poor mans mercedes!!!
i never thought i would wish for a dialogue with a bmw owner!!!!

S55inPA

hey guys....i was showing my girlfriend some of these posts.
lex400 put a phot of an old merc 350. i commented that it still looks nice even today.......first thing out of her mouth was....what's the picture underneath it....a ford a probe!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think that says it all.

Juke-box

uhhh.....not true...we have 2 lexus' in the family, and no bmw's. the Lexus is actualy a very reliable car! and the interior is very plush compared to the rather stark MB interior. My sister always says her GS kicks my E's ***...haha..but to each their own...