VVT-i

I agree. But when I have that kind of money. I will have to choose just 1 sedan and a Diablo or a Ferrari..

retrodrive

What about the tunability of both cars?

EGainer

I think the S430 is being dropped out of the line up next year or something. There will only be an S500 and S600, the 600 being with the detuned Maybach 5.5L engine.... I read this in my magazine. If I find the article, I will post it

KrispyK

S430 dropped? Kinda makes sense seeing as how a fully loaded E500 will cost $75k. No need to take sales away within the same brand I guess.

bmms8

but that is a "fully loaded" e500........try to configure a fully loaded c320....and also, over 80 percent of s-classes i see arent fully loaded in any way...i dont know why, but i see that

zmirza

How can you guys compare these two cars. Lexus shouldn't be compared with the benz and vice versa.

My brother drives a GS430 and I have an E420

I know you guys are comparing S with LS but hear me out first

E Class:
Expensive
Stiffer ride than GS
Took them 7 years of research for E class
Engine drops in head on collision just to save your legs/life
The door locks are designed so that in an accident they won't get stuck plus you never have to cut the doors out just to take a body out
Benz has always come with a medical kit
full size spare
life time road side assistance

Owning a MB is a dream that people have in other countries


GS:
Faster than E
Parts are cheaper
Some nice standard features where in Benz everything is an option
I don't know if it comes with a full size spare
Less Expensive

Other than this Lexus has always tried to copy Benz and BMW
Don't get me wrong it is a very nice car with good looks and is fast but MY FRIENDS BENZ IS A BENZ THERE IS NO COMPARISSON

Kar don

woah lets get things straight here buddy. A 2002 Camry and C320, ur right no comparison, C-class will beat it (except in interior volume). C has a MUCH tighter feel, better acceleration, better brakes, safer, quieter, etc. The 02 Camry has a overally cushy ride, a lot of suspension noise, and an overall limp feel. And do not call me a toyota hater because i am not, I own an 02 Lexus IS300. And about the horsepower you are wrong, the current E320 has 221 hp and the current camry has 192 hp, and that equals 29 more hp for the E320, simple math. And you cannot compare HP to noise level for any engine period. My 5 horsepower lawn mower is much louder than my 215 hp Lexus, get your facts straight before you post please.

JustinTRW

Yeah, my lawmower is damn loud. I don't think it's even 5 hp Ali, yours must be a monster to work with. LOL.

Why is the Camry in this? It's America's value car. They had to make it as mainstream as possible to attract the mid 20k budget.


OHHHHHH, and the most ugly Lexus is the one I want (the one Tom Cruise had in Minority Report).

bmms8

ali, i highly doubt it it quieter....the engine noise is very low in the camry...

Kar don

I work @ a toyota dealership, I drive these cars daily. The engine noise is there, its not that quiet. It also sounds very harsh, do me a favor, go drive your Camry, quickly tap the gas about half way and release immdiately, and go right on the brake. You will here a gawd awful clicking noise. I have driven new camrys right off the truck where the engine makes a gurgiling noise with the A/C on. Camry is a lousy car imo. Sorry vishal!

JustinTRW

I don't think it really matters which is more quiet. Engine noise is a function of how the engine is tuned, how the exhaust is tuned, the transmission, and sound proofing. It's also a product of how heavy your right foot is! Press the throttle in the Camry 3/4 of the way (notice how it doesn't shift right away) and see what happens.

I bet you the Bentley Arnage R's engine is more loud than either...

bmms8

yea but im saying that the camry is quiter.....to me....thats all....i have been in a test drive for a c320....it doesnt really seem like it is quieter than the camry

JustinTRW

You sat in the back right? Well that is closest to the exhaust, lol. Anyway, if you are into quiet cars, please close your ears when I accelerate past you. The C32 exhaust is mean from the outside.

bmms8

lol, u guys swear i dont drive.....i have a permit

lex400sc

Ugh, more elitism . Denial is stinky fragrance guys, you don't have to feel so threatened about another car company coming up on your prestige and heritage, with increasingly better offerings. All you really have to argue now is AMG performance, but give Lexus some time to work out it's image and appeal to the sporty crowd and they'll be heading off those Dinan boy racers and AMG road warriors quite effectively.

The GS430 has the full-size spare and lifetime roadside assistance and medical kit. Hell the '92 SC400s came with medical kits and full size spare, and roadside assistance--those are no big deal. the GS bodystyle took about as long to develop and the GS430 engine block was the result of $400 million in R&D just for the block, and that's not including the addition of hydrolic variable valve timing or the 0.3 liter stroke in 2001. I don't know if you've ever been to Insurance Auto Auctions or salvage yards, but I've seen quite a few awful, ugly head on collision 2nd-gen GSes and a fair share of Mercedes front impact collisions. Trust me when I say the GS is as safe or safer than Benz in absorbing massive forceful impacts without effecting the cabin. I've seen GS400s with the entire front end folded in and not even the interior trim panels, center console, dash, etc, were out of alignment. You can hardly make a point out of Lexus safety being inferior to Mercedes'. I've never read up on Lexus marketing literature so I don't know if the engine drops and doorlocks pop in a collision so I won't speak on it.

Please! So arrogant of you to think that Lexus is on Mercedes' and BMW's jock! You should be so lucky Lexus exists. After offering so many more standard features, at a lower price point, with equal luxury ammenities, and better reliability, your German automakers were forced to step up to the plate and produce better cars either by boosting performance or offering more standardized features and better build quality. So who is on who's jock now?

Callaway

AlBoston you are 100% RIGHT!!!!!!

Some posters have NFI.

It's not a question of hating a car it's a question of appreciating built quality and engineering excellence.

I would take a 320 over a Camry in a heartbeat and I think those who wouldn't don't have the keen eye to appreciate wonderful design details and solidity in a car.

KrispyK

I agree with you that I'd prefer the C320 over the Camry in a heartbeat. However, there is a substantial price differential between the two -- a base C320, with no options, stickers out to $37, going as high as $52k fully loaded. Whereas a top-of-the-line XLE Camry V6 starts at $25k and tops out around $38k.

While money may be no object to certain people, I'd say to the vast majority of people, it is quite the object. Thus, the C320 is about $10k more than a Camry, and isn't quite the right car for a head-to-head comparison. I think the proper question to ask is: would you get a C230K hatchback (which starts at $25k and goes as high as $42k fully-loaded) or a Camry? I think personally, even then, I'd stick with the C230K.

lex400sc

Dude, bmm was merely comparing cabin quietness between his Camry and the C320 to make a point---that's it!! Let's not blow this thing out to encompass everything about the two vehicles as if they were actual head-to-head competitors. Funny how there is always a Toyota tech lurking around EVERY forum where Lexus-bashing takes place. The last Lexus-bashing thread was on BattleBoard.org and some "Toyota tech" comes out bashing the hell out of Toyota and Lexus. I soon laid his credibility to waste where upon I demonstrated in front of everybody just how big of a moron said tech was. So excuse me if your professional opinion falls upon deaf ears.

KrispyK

Lex, out of curiosity, what exactly is the difference between the ES300 and Camry? When my siblings and I were shopping for my parents' LS430, I sat in an ES300 briefly, but couldn't really tell how quiet, etc., it was inside as I never drove it. I have, however, recently had the pleasure of driving a Camry, and think it's a solid car for the money. The salesman told me that the ES300 is a completely different car, not based on the same platform ... but my MB salesguy also told me that the new W211 E55 will be called the "E66." Just curious about the differences ... other than the sheetmetal ... thanks.

lex400sc

They are very similar, but the new ES300 has 240hps 3.3-liter V6 that gets 31mpg, 5-speed OD auto tranny with gated shifter, the paint is much higher quality as is the leather and wood trim, the cabin noise is reduced by 9 or more decibels, standard HIDs, and of course you get the Mark Levinson sound system stock. Oh yeah and the standard warranty is 100K miles bumper to bumper. The Camry has like none of the above mentioned and it's leather is the kind you'd expect in a $20,000 car. I think the ES300 is an all around boring car, I had one for a loaner and got sick of it after two days, but otherwise a very comfy, spacious, smooth riding, warm and a great family car. Too bad it's FWD .

lex400sc

Oh yeah and the ES300 is built off the Camry chassis, but that's about all it shares with it other than physical appearance.

KrispyK

Back in '94, my friend had a Lexus SC400; when it went in for service, he brought out the ES of the time as a loaner. The people at my summer internship ended up thinking I had two Lexuses for myself, when in reality, I had none! Anyway, all I recall about that ES was that it had the best stock stereo system I'd ever heard. It was the *only* factory stereo I'd (to this day) heard that imaged/staged properly. It was also quite a kick to do donuts in a parking lot. (I'd just turned twenty ... what do you expect, right? )

lex400sc

Yeah, I am not a real fan of stock stereo systems, even the high-dollar premium stereo packages, but I heard the Levinson system in a 2002 SC430 and all I have to say is, DAMN. The acoustics are amazing, even with the top retracted you still get a full, engrossing musical experience with high resolution detail, warm analog flavor from digital sources, toneal coherance from all nine drivers, and an open soundstage with distinct spatial cues. Of course you need nothing less than a reference quality source to atain such a msucial bliss, but it's achieveable . Aftermarket gear can still easily kill it, but not for less than a few grand in equipment alone. I've never heard a better stock system in my life and I don't expect I ever will for a while .

Accord

LOL! Good one Justin!

Sometimes you don't want quiet. When I get my C32, I want to hear the growl of that powerful German kompressor... I don't want to have a quiet, boring, slow drive home.

Also, the seats of the LS430 are horrible, they are like bean bag chairs. You sink right in... the seats are like quick sand. No, that is not a good thing.

JustinTRW

John - The C32 sound is not quite as loud as you'd like when driving fast (from the inside at least). When you are cruising, I'm glad it's not overly loud

Krispy- The Camry tops out at $38k!! Or are you including the Lexus ES300 in that figure?