Stealer issue..
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From: Tampa, FL
2005 S500 4-Matic, 1978 450SL
Very true, it doesn't explain all. It also doesn't explain why you bought at Sunoco, but don't have Sunoco gas.
However, be aware that some service stations advertising branded gas will buy from others - frequently from delivery trucks that did not offload all of their (low-grade) fuel at their first stop. The "quality" companies don't like that, but not all operators are honest.
As for the 90 miles, it is possible that sludge was mixed up and distributed in the gas, and under those circumstances it ran fine; but once sludge collected on your fuel filter, or settled to the bottom of your tank by the intake, it became a problem.
On the other hand, the gas the dealer "saved" for you may not be the gas that actually came from your car.
This is a tough one to prove one way or the other. However, the Sunoco report tends to support that the dealer gave you gas other than what was in your car, which undermines his story. Show him a copy of the report, and ask him to explain it.
However, be aware that some service stations advertising branded gas will buy from others - frequently from delivery trucks that did not offload all of their (low-grade) fuel at their first stop. The "quality" companies don't like that, but not all operators are honest.
As for the 90 miles, it is possible that sludge was mixed up and distributed in the gas, and under those circumstances it ran fine; but once sludge collected on your fuel filter, or settled to the bottom of your tank by the intake, it became a problem.
On the other hand, the gas the dealer "saved" for you may not be the gas that actually came from your car.
This is a tough one to prove one way or the other. However, the Sunoco report tends to support that the dealer gave you gas other than what was in your car, which undermines his story. Show him a copy of the report, and ask him to explain it.
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'15 CLS63 sAMG, '91 GMC Syclone, '89 Saleen Mustang Turbo Intercooled
Still does not explain the same exact thing happening again.
Also another thing I just noticed today, I never get any better than 11.9mpg no matter how I drive.
Missfires due to extream rich conditions and cylinders loading up? Who knows what was done to the ECU before I bought it, I have driven another s600 and 2 s55's and my car is much faster, I guess I will know for sure @ MIR next weekend.
If I drive the car like a grandpa it acually feels a little sluggish over time, all I need to do it flogg on it few times and it's like a switch is flipped and the thing becomes an animal, even the trans shifts become alot more aggressive.
Also another thing I just noticed today, I never get any better than 11.9mpg no matter how I drive.
Missfires due to extream rich conditions and cylinders loading up? Who knows what was done to the ECU before I bought it, I have driven another s600 and 2 s55's and my car is much faster, I guess I will know for sure @ MIR next weekend.
If I drive the car like a grandpa it acually feels a little sluggish over time, all I need to do it flogg on it few times and it's like a switch is flipped and the thing becomes an animal, even the trans shifts become alot more aggressive.
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'15 CLS63 sAMG, '91 GMC Syclone, '89 Saleen Mustang Turbo Intercooled
Boy that's some bad gas!
While installing my BMC Air Filters I found this...
I guess this could cause a CEL, rich conditions & misfires?
I guess this could cause a CEL, rich conditions & misfires?
Last edited by Sysopz; Nov 16, 2008 at 05:52 PM.
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04 S430 (sold),05 X5 4.4i, 02 325i, 87 560SL, 85 Alfa Romeo
Another fine example of a CPO car.
My friend you have a lemon.. it will take you a few months and a lot of dought to get all of the skeletons out of that car's closet.
Good luck and happy hunting.
My friend you have a lemon.. it will take you a few months and a lot of dought to get all of the skeletons out of that car's closet.
Good luck and happy hunting.
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'15 CLS63 sAMG, '91 GMC Syclone, '89 Saleen Mustang Turbo Intercooled
I don't see how a CPO inspection could have been done and that be missed. Lemon I would not go that far...but the dealer is a scam artist for sure.
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'15 CLS63 sAMG, '91 GMC Syclone, '89 Saleen Mustang Turbo Intercooled
A little update on the issue;
I had my car @ another dealer today for some routine maintenance, oil change and rear diff fluid change, while it was there I explained the situation to them and they inspected the car to see if the fuel tank was ever removed and told me that there was no way this work was ever done to the car.
They explained to me what was involved in removing the tank as was stated on the invoice I have from Tom Masano Mercedes and showed me on my car how this work was never done.
I am really not sure what to do now other than get a lawyer.
I had my car @ another dealer today for some routine maintenance, oil change and rear diff fluid change, while it was there I explained the situation to them and they inspected the car to see if the fuel tank was ever removed and told me that there was no way this work was ever done to the car.
They explained to me what was involved in removing the tank as was stated on the invoice I have from Tom Masano Mercedes and showed me on my car how this work was never done.
I am really not sure what to do now other than get a lawyer.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,063
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From: Tampa, FL
2005 S500 4-Matic, 1978 450SL
First, ask your second dealer to give you something in writing detailing the problems - no need to be formal, a handwritten document will do - but preferably on company stationery, dated, signed, and witnessed. Be sure to bring up the items in your photographs that should not have been found on a CPO car. Get the second dealer to include comments on that.
If both dealers are authorized MB dealers, take it up to the area representative; show him your evidence. The first dealer should either refund your money, or transfer it to the second dealer.
Other than that, ask an attorney to write a letter (often called a "demand letter") to the first dealer. That does nothing but let the first dealer know that legal action is a possibility. Sometimes attorneys will not just "write a letter" unless he or she undertakes the representation - but it is a good way to let the first dealer know exactly what you require. If a lawyer won't write it, you can write the letter yourself. In such circumstances, I used to tell the client the essential components of the letter, so they could write it themselves (our firm's policy was never to "write a letter" but only to accept a representation with a retainer; then the letter-writing could begin).
If neither of the above gets results, keep your paperwork as well as written evidence of what the second dealer found; keep a sample of whatever comes out of your tank; and file a small claims action on your own. The "demand letter" becomes a part of the case, showing that you gave the first dealer a chance to make it right before bringing suit. You don't need a lawyer for a small claims case, in most jurisdictions. The local clerk of court can help you with the paperwork.
If both dealers are authorized MB dealers, take it up to the area representative; show him your evidence. The first dealer should either refund your money, or transfer it to the second dealer.
Other than that, ask an attorney to write a letter (often called a "demand letter") to the first dealer. That does nothing but let the first dealer know that legal action is a possibility. Sometimes attorneys will not just "write a letter" unless he or she undertakes the representation - but it is a good way to let the first dealer know exactly what you require. If a lawyer won't write it, you can write the letter yourself. In such circumstances, I used to tell the client the essential components of the letter, so they could write it themselves (our firm's policy was never to "write a letter" but only to accept a representation with a retainer; then the letter-writing could begin).
If neither of the above gets results, keep your paperwork as well as written evidence of what the second dealer found; keep a sample of whatever comes out of your tank; and file a small claims action on your own. The "demand letter" becomes a part of the case, showing that you gave the first dealer a chance to make it right before bringing suit. You don't need a lawyer for a small claims case, in most jurisdictions. The local clerk of court can help you with the paperwork.
Last edited by Skylaw; Dec 5, 2008 at 02:01 PM.
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'15 CLS63 sAMG, '91 GMC Syclone, '89 Saleen Mustang Turbo Intercooled
Thanks alot Skylaw, we have an in house attorney where I work and this is exactley what she is going to do for me.
The second dealer said they have no problem with putting thier findings in writting.
I provided the attorney with the original invoice with the tank removal listed, the pictures I took, and the results of the fuel test done by Sunoco performance labs & chain of custody of the sample along with the original fuel receipt.
I will post an update with any results I get good or bad.
The second dealer said they have no problem with putting thier findings in writting.
I provided the attorney with the original invoice with the tank removal listed, the pictures I took, and the results of the fuel test done by Sunoco performance labs & chain of custody of the sample along with the original fuel receipt.
I will post an update with any results I get good or bad.
Last edited by Sysopz; Dec 4, 2008 at 04:21 PM.
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'15 CLS63 sAMG, '91 GMC Syclone, '89 Saleen Mustang Turbo Intercooled
If anyone needs service on thier car in the PA area I would suggest MB of Devon, PA.
After thier inspection of my car the service manager called Tom Masano MB about my issues, and they agreed to refund my $1200 for the work they did.
The short version of what was said is that there was no reason to remove the tank if they suspected bad fuel. What should have been done was;
Drain tank
Replace fuel filter
Clean Skim drain
Clean injectors
The only reason to EVER remove the tank is to replace it.
Also after the inspection they replaced all under warranty;
Pulsation damper (Branch Line)
Line from pulsation damper to rear block
Line from seperation point to dampner
Spring link from axle
Strut Assembly both front
Both front strut
ABC line L/F strut
Strut assembly RT rear
CP valve and hoses (see pictures in my prior post) This is what they suspect was really wrong with my car and caused the CEL and run quality.
They also did the below items @ my cost;
Rear Axle oil change $42.50
Trans oil flush & replace $75.00
CPO type inspection of car $105.00
Car wash inside and out no charge
I am very happy with how I was treated by MB of Devon and the shop will be getting a very nice holiday present from me.
On another note they had some very nice comments about my car saying it was the nicest and most well appointed W220 S600 they have seen, they also said that Tectite Grey with Charcoal interior was a special order color combo @ $1200, I am sure they were just being nice but it was still pretty cool to hear.
I guess this just goes to show that all MB shops are not the same.
After thier inspection of my car the service manager called Tom Masano MB about my issues, and they agreed to refund my $1200 for the work they did.
The short version of what was said is that there was no reason to remove the tank if they suspected bad fuel. What should have been done was;
Drain tank
Replace fuel filter
Clean Skim drain
Clean injectors
The only reason to EVER remove the tank is to replace it.
Also after the inspection they replaced all under warranty;
Pulsation damper (Branch Line)
Line from pulsation damper to rear block
Line from seperation point to dampner
Spring link from axle
Strut Assembly both front
Both front strut
ABC line L/F strut
Strut assembly RT rear
CP valve and hoses (see pictures in my prior post) This is what they suspect was really wrong with my car and caused the CEL and run quality.
They also did the below items @ my cost;
Rear Axle oil change $42.50
Trans oil flush & replace $75.00
CPO type inspection of car $105.00
Car wash inside and out no charge
I am very happy with how I was treated by MB of Devon and the shop will be getting a very nice holiday present from me.
On another note they had some very nice comments about my car saying it was the nicest and most well appointed W220 S600 they have seen, they also said that Tectite Grey with Charcoal interior was a special order color combo @ $1200, I am sure they were just being nice but it was still pretty cool to hear.
I guess this just goes to show that all MB shops are not the same.
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Posts: 1,284
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From: North Carolina
2003 S500 - Toyota Corolla (in the rain)
Glad to see everything worked out for you without having to re-mortgage your house to pay for it. I suppose there still are some honest folks out there.
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'15 CLS63 sAMG, '91 GMC Syclone, '89 Saleen Mustang Turbo Intercooled
What else is pretty cool is they contacted a client of thiers that has an 07 S65 Grey with black interior (My dream car) comming of lease in 18 months and told me I should be able to get that car CPO for low $60's from them when he turns it in.
