car54

Is is possible to replace the drivers seat in my 2006 S430 (4matic)
with a Recaro? Any thoughts are welcome. (I've got some comfort problems in the stock seat.) Any comments on the comfort of
the Recaros or experience installing them in any Benz model would
be great. Thanks.

Steven Long

Sounds like you don't have the multi-contour, air-cooled seats? I'd think it would be easier to drop in a set of those, and look much better than Recaro's.

car54

Thanks. No, I just have the base seats. The problem is that I seem to be sitting in a bowl and the front-top-area of the seats is hard and pushes up into my leg, no matter how I adjust the seats in any permutation. I'm not sure the multi-contours would change that, unless the bottom of the seat is just worn out and sinking
(at 32,700 miles).
I wonder if anyone else notices this about the W220 S-class seats.
Thanks for responding.

Steven Long

You mentioned that the problem is the top/front portion of the seat bottom. I am wonderig if there is an issue with the firmness of the padding? Have you tried sitting in another S430, or a car with multi-contour seats? There are enough of them around, that I think you should have the ability to try them out. Heck, if you went to a MB dealer, and test-drove a car on their lot - perhaps that would duplicate your concern, or provide an answer.

With the multi-contour seats, you have the ability to move the front *lip* forward (good for those with longer thighs), or backward (ideal for those with shorter thighs).

car54

Thanks again. I have driven '05 and '06 S-classes at Mercedes events here in Jersey,
and did not notice it. Yes, I do have the adjustable front lip thing, and it just moves
the problem back and forth. I use it fully extended anyway because of my longish legs.
Yep, that "padding" is rock-hard. I wonder if it could be re-upholstered.
I also wonder if this could vary from one car to another.
Now I sit on a folded thick towel and that helps somewhat. Unfortunately, it only became really noticeable (and downright painful) after I had driven it for a couple of days. It's a Certified pre-owned car from the dealer where I bought new E320s previously some years back. I'm going to try to get a covered foam cushion to sit on
from one of these custom-made foam cushion suppliers on the web.
Thanks again for your help.

Steven Long

It souds to me as if the padding is the problem. It should not be rock hard. Yes, the seats can be reupholstered, or have new foam inserted. You might ask your local dealer who they sub-let to (if they will tell you) ... as I have found many dealers tend to use the same vendors for similar repairs. A good auto upholsterer should be able to open up the seat, replace the foam, and stitch it back up without any notice (similar to UNIQUE WHIPS, on Speed Channel).

Just remember, if you are going to use another piece of foam (in the interim), it may or may not help, as it would obviously lift your legs higher (over the rock hard foam), unless you are able to reposition the seat bottom comfortably. If this new piece of foam *seems* to help, then it would suggest replacement may be a viable option. Let us know how this turns out.

car54

OK, thank you for that info, I really appreciate it. -Rich-

car54

Well, service at my dealer would not tell me about any upholstery shop, saying that kind of work was just for ripped seats. I also asked about putting in Recaro seats, and they said "not in a Mercedes."

So I'm experimenting with a Sheepskin pad and a towel on top, and that
helps a lot w/o changing the seating position much, and I'll try some foam next. I hate the idea of going to some independent upholstery shop to do surgery on the seat, as I'd have a lot of trouble selling or trading it, and it
might not work. And who knows what putting in a Recaro seat would do to the warranty. (I have the option to buy the 3-year Mercedes extended warranty.)

If it keeps bothering me, I may trade it for a good-condition Audi A8
or a BMW 7-series.
It's a shame, because i LOVE they way it drives and it has a perfect seating position, which is rare for me in a car. And I got a really good price on it
(for a certified 4matic in top condition with 32K miles).

Steven Long

I just don't see why you would put Recaro's in, in lieu of swapping out the hard foam first? If you are concerned about trade-in value for swapping out foam (an unseen item), imagine what would happen if you swapped out seats - the wiring harness would not likely hook-up with Recaro's. Then again, what says that a Recaro would solve the issue at hand?

If your local dealer won't help with an upholsterer shop, then why not simply TELL them to fix the hard foam themselves (did you have THEM sit in the car - can you show them the difference in another W220)? I guess I can understand them not wanting to send you somewhere else (to spend your money elsewhere), but why not help you out one way or another? I can understand them not wanting to swap out the seats ... but realize, if YOU did it, or had it done, it would not alter your warranty, with the exception of the area that was changed (ie: specifically, the electricals dealing with the seats, etc).

What is the next closest MB dealer to your selling dealer? Do you belong to MBCA? Consider posting another thread in a different section, asking for a referral to an upholsterer in a location near you. Regardless of where you go ... I would feel more comfortable if that shop had a few hi-lines in for service ... whether it be BMW, Jag, MB, Lexus, etc.

car54

Thanks for that! Yes that makes sense. I'll try my quick&dirty cushions first and do some research to find a good upholstery shop and see what they say.
If it does seem that this could work I will pursue it and would really love to have this relatively simple fix.

This dealer (who I've dealt with for 10 years now) seems to go completely by the book, saying explicity that the seat-cushion is either defective (and thus fixable under warranty) or not (in which case nothing can be done, period). I suspect that they will say nothing is wrong, since they just certified the car, but I'll let them look anyway.

Yep, the Recaro option really is not practical and is too risky.

I'm still not sure if my seats are that different from the norm and I'm just
super-sensitive (I had a couple of friends try it and said they did feel what I did but it was just different, not painful, but they had thinner legs than I have.)

I did read on some forums that the W220 seats were hard, but this was also said about the E-classes I own ('00 and '04) and I think the seats are fine.
If the seat had a basic flat seating area, the firmness would be OK, but there is the U-shaped thigh-support area that pops up like a bubble and
jams into my legs, which are thicker than normal. The more I look at it,
it is a bizarrely shaped seat, much more extremely contoured than the
E-class or any other car I am familiar with. You sit on a fairly small square that has raised side-hip areas and that front bubble. The combination of this pattern and the rock-hard foam is deadly. The funny thing is, it seems OK at first, but after 10-15 minutes it becomes intolerable. Maybe that is why I didn't catch this at first.

Again, I really appreciate your taking the time to offer all that advice.
Best to you.
(And thanks for reading my rant.)

Steven Long

Two thoughts ...

1) S430 utilizes a firmer leather, vs. the S500, which uses Nappa leather.
2) I would seriously doubt that the firmness of the foam is covered under their certification process. If nothing else - ask to see the check-list that was used to certify your car. It will show what they look at, and certify. I believe they check to see that the interior is not damages (ripped seats, etc), but nothing relating to firmness, especially to an individuals taste or specifications.

The dealer should have NO problems handing you a copy of the checklist. I have requested (and received) this once before, when I suspected the dealer had pushed the car through the shop quickly, having missed several VERY NOTICEABLE items ... like low brake pads & rotors (under specifictions). I was looking at an E-Class at the time. There checklist showed the technician had checked off the retractable roof (from an SL), and some other function that was listed under the S-Class. To add insult to injury, the technician had failed to sign off on several components that were part of the EE-Class. In this particular case, it was obvious the paperwork was less than stellar - and the dealer agreed to run it through the shop again.

car54

Interesting. They did tell me they replaced brake rotors, put on new tires,
and other things. and so far the car has no problems at all, so I still feel good about the CPO route.
About the S500 leather, it's true that the other S-classes I test drove over the years were 500s, so maybe that's a factor. Somehow I missed that in my research before buying, but I wouldn't think it would matter much. Maybe the
different leather affects the feel of things or firmness...
But the 430 does have ample power, and is a real joy to drive, with an amazing combination of handling, stability, balance, roadfeel,
and isolation from mechanics/road-imperfections while simultaneously
keeping me in touch with the driving dynamics. Benz really knows how to build these things. I actually preferred it to the BMW 745 I tried, and I actually like the W220 better than the new W221 S-class in road-feel, control, lack of vibration, and seating position. The W221 (a 2009 model) did not let the seat-cushion tilt back enough, and left me feeling that I was sitting on the floor, which annoyed me, even though I had enough legroom,
my knees were almost unbent like I was sitting on the ground, and I had to move the seat almost fully back from steering wheel.
The BMW I tried (a 2006 745 I test-drove 2 years ago) has a good seating position like my 2006 Benz.

Steven Long

The brakes, rotors (etc) makes sense - as that is part of the CPO process (check, replace, etc). Like I said, I doubt they would replace foam cushion as part of CPO.

The S500 Nappa leather is a softer leather, but I doubt that equates to hard foam - but the seats themselves could feel different to some people. The engine is a bit larger than the S430, but other than the leather, engine size, and lighting package - the cars are the same.

Here's a question for you - what about the foam cushion on the front passenger seat? How does this feel to you? What about the rear seats?

car54

Well, the foam on the psngr side is also hard, about the same as the drivers seat. The back seat sure is comfy, but it's just me and my wife here and no kids and nobody uses it.

Steven Long

<<back seat foam>> I was trying to figure out if there is a difference in the foam. If the LF is hard, and the RF is okay, I would suspect a problem with the foam. If both fronts are hard, and both backs are okay - it's either the way you are sitting in the seats (how they fit to you), or coincidentally, that both pieces of front foam are bad.

I have a test to do - will use my wife's car as an example - will get back to you. FWIW - my wife's S500V4 has the power rear seats and 4-position climate control. Sure makes it nice to be driven places!