vraa

V12, v12 twin turboed twin turboed v12

JBrady

481.5 rwhp OEM... that is just amazing. We are TRULY in the golden age of automotive performance. Here we have a 4700 pound (actually more with driver and fuel) ahem... 5000 pound car that would SMOKE virtually any of the factory muscle cars from the 60s and 70s. A big gun 426cid Chrysler Hemi (7 liters) in a 3700 pound relative lightweight car would get stomped on by this beast... a VERY quiet, VERY refined, VERY fast beast.

Regarding drivetrain loss. The smoother you make a car and the stronger (heavier) the components (hint: this is a heavy smooth POWERFUL car) the greater the drivetrain loss. 15% is a reasonable number for a NON IRS rear wheel drive car with a manual transmission. Most luxury cars in this class have a least 20% loss and can be higher (4wd). 22% seems exceedingly reasonable.

22% loss calc: 481.5 / 78 x 100 = 617 flywheel horsepower.

also, 718 flywheel torque

This car engine appears to be underated by OVER 100hp and 100tq

vraa

I think this is an appropiate time to use obscene languages!

MercManiac

Don't want to go overboard here:-).....but, what would happen if when I get my 04 S600 with Renntech upgrade in September.....I connected the engine to a nitrous bottle in the trunk and went to the dragstrip north of Atlanta....and of course put 20" wheels with gummy drag slicks on for the day???

Of course, for visual effect, I'd keep my girlfriends son's baby seat in the back.

ajayz

I dont know the answer to ur question but... im sure u wont regret it and im pretty sure i would love to watch that, make a video and upload it.

benznut

Why would you mess up an already formidable machine such as an S600 with Fast&Furious tricks, potentially harmfil to the engine in the long run? The S 600 is not intended for use in the drag strips. It is a remarkable feat that already as it is, it can kick serious b... as treynor here has graciously allowed us to witness. If you truly want to do serious track work with an expensive Benz, wait for the SLR, or get yourself in the list for an SL65 AMG, and you won't have to do any mods to get killing speed.
Please remember that I am not a track enthusiast, and have never been, although I am a fanatic speed enthusiast, when it is safe, and when no one is watching (quite notorious for that in my circles). So I am viewing things completely from a different perspective.
Myself, I have my eyes set on a nice SL600, although economy is not giving me a break so far. I am psyched by the reports made here that the engine in reality is much more powerful that it is claimed to be (roughly as powerful as the new 65 engine). I hope this applies to all examples, so one who is looking for serious power does not ahve to wait for loo long and pay too expensive a price for the new 65 AMGs. I am actually looking at getting it with the stock look, that is no sport package, since I find the standard look to be quite adorning to the Sl, especially in black (my color of choice). I will look into the possibility of deleting the speed limiter.

treynor

> [...] engine to a nitrous bottle in the trunk and went to the dragstrip north of Atlanta....and of course put 20" wheels with gummy drag slicks

You'd either have a very fast S600, or a very expensive paperweight . I'm doing the RENNtech ECU upgrade, mounting sticky Potenza S02 tires, and calling it a day. Keeping the car reliable and safe is far more important to me than making it into a dragstrip weapon. Besides, it does so well already!

Here's another video from the track last week. My opponent was a friend in a supercharged C5, a car which on street tires is pretty traction-challenged. As you'll see, I won this race at the light; our ETs were almost identical.

http://www.treynor.com/TreynorS600vsRedC5.wmv

MercManiac

When is the S65 coming out and what are its specs on engine?? I was looking at S63???? but dealer said they had no info on target date at all so I pulled my deposit and went with 2004 S600.

FC Corp

Are you changing out the wheels? Same size tires all around? Educate me please.

awiner

The S65 will not be sold in the U.S. At least for 2004.

treynor

> Are you changing out the wheels? Same size tires all around? Educate me please.

Nothing radical. Stock wheels (my car has the sport package). 275/40-18 rear tires, stock-size front tires. Bridgestone Potenza S-02A meats -- a properly sticky tire for a properly sporty car

Caliz_Finest

all i can say is... holy ****. I think I see a S or CL600 in my future

vraa

I don't think any AMG V12 is being sold in North America. You have to take a S600 (Mercedes V12) and send it to AMG Special Wishes in Germany.

JBrady

Unlike the base 500 cars vs the AMG 55 series cars, one being naturally aspirated and the other being supercharged... all 600 series cars are already turbocharged. I haven't seen any specs on the AMG 65 cars but would be surprised if the engine was much different from the standard 600 with the RENNTech/Maybach chip.

The AMAZING thing about turbocharged engines is the EASE of making substantially more power.

Using an example of a car with effective HALF of the 600s engine, the 93-98 Supra TT... this car has a 3.0 liter straight 6 cylinder twin turbo engine from the factory rated at 320hp or 107hp per liter. This would be 587hp for the MB 5.5 V12 TT (pretty close actually). Now, with VERY minor tuning the Supra will make 400rwhp. There are quite a few running around with 500+rwhp on the STOCK BLOCK. I would say that if one is so inclined it would be very possible to upgrade the 600 to over 1000hp. One more comment, there are a handful of street driven Supras making 900+rwhp from 3 puny liters. (over 150mph in the 1/4) If someone is WILD enough and CRAZY enough and RICH enough... a 2000hp car is not out of the question here.

Good Lord.

vraa

Maybe he can do it!

KJ-TypeR

Hi Treynor,

Good work dyno'ing your S600. One thing you should do next time though is get a print out of the "SAE Horsepower" graphs instead of the "Actual Horsepower" graphs. Your dyno operator should still have them stored on his computer and should be able to print them out for you.

"Actual Horsepower" graphs are NON-corrected versions meaning that air temperature, humidity, barometric pressure etc. etc. is not accounted for. If you were to dyno in a cool place with no humidity, you'd get higher HP numbers than in a place with higher air temperature and higher humidity.

On the other hand, SAE-Horsepower graphs have been corrected for these factors so your results are comparable with people who dyno at other places at various times of the year. This would also be useful for yourself when comparing a mod you make in the future to the baseline runs you did a few months ago.

As for using "Actual Horsepower" graphs, I have seen them skew results +/- 5.5% which would mean +/- 26HP which is quite significant.

I say this from my personal experience and the experience of others. I have personally done almost 100 dyno runs over the years and have seen how much results can vary at various times of the year.

- KJ

BenzBoy12

i know this is old, but ive heard some say this one might be a ringer. anyone care to chime in here? Will a biturbo 600 dyno like this stock for real?

Stephen04E55

I have never dynoed my car but stock for stock our e.t.'s at the track were very similar. These #'s do not seem unrealistic. Do a search for Treynor and his e.t.s when he first raced his S600. After the Renntech ECU/TCU both of our cars ran about the same. My car posted an 11.27@121.88 with no N20 after programming by Renntech. I believe that his fastest e.t. was an 11.5x.

BenzBoy12

Thanks. I thought they were accurate, i have seen some of his track numbers, and they seem to make sense w/ this amount of power. And good job on an 11.27! I am interested in one of these, not sure if i can swing it yet. we'll see. I have seen other S600s dyno around this amount before, so it seems perfectly legite. What were you running stock for e.t's?

Stephen04E55

My car ran 11.97@114.7 bone stock with drag radials. I never ran the car on street tires as it would have been a waste of time. These S600 cars will not launch well on street tires and you will be hard pressed to get better than a 1.9x 60' time. With drag radials a 1.7x or 1.80 60' times are no problem and I ran a string of 12.0 passes before I busted the 11.97. Get an '03-'06 biturbo and you will be very happy.

silver65

Damn that's good. My 03 only put down 500 after the tuning. Should have done a base run!

BenzBoy12

Damn, thats fast for a 4800 lb. car! Thanks for the info. Stock tires are pretty much useless for racing, these things are sooo traction limited, anywhere in the revs. A little Renntech ECU and your good to go.

BigBody6

600 FTMFW. Thats why I whoop up on AMG 55s down here in Miami.

BigBody6

600 FTMFW. Thats why I whoop up on some AMGs down here in Miami that think they the S.H.I.T.

Kwik SC

What size DR's did you run? I have a set of 16" Mickey Thompsons laying around that I would like to throw on the S600 to make a couple of passes down the track also.. Will they fit over the rear brakes if I get a set of 16" rims for em?