My 1st post,,
Gathered much info from here,
definitely the best place to learn diy and save a lot of money,and sometimes left with more questions then answers.Realized that’s due to,what works for some won’t work for all.

Ive read up on staggered wheels on a 4matic the good and the bad.Everything pointed to bad idea,but I needed tires so badly that i went with it.Here’s what I experienced,’1st week’

’Immediately’ I mean 1st week
of putting 245/45/18 F 275/40/18 R on my 03 s500 4matic,things went bad.My original wheels were Wich at the time I didn’t realize were perfect for this car if you were after the best ride comfort n overall handling,17”.
Although the tire size is not the best 225/55/17,overall if I had just corrected what the factory got wrong Wich was the width 225 ‘too narrow’ and air pressure 29psi F ‘not enough’ to support this heavy car and causes it to be squirrelly,I would have been much happier better off.

As soon as I drove out the tire shop you can feel the drag as if the car was in low gear like driving up a hill in 2nd gear.I mean that bad.Any Bumps potholes felt as if I was using concrete tires.And this was with factory psi.The car had a major improvement on being squirrelly,originally the car felt as if it was going sideways on every bump.I blame this on the narrow 225 tire as I actually went down in height of rubber so the 55 seems a good factory size although 60 or 65 might better.

The complaint everybody on this forum posted about damaging transfer case tranny etc.well all that is ABSOLUTELY true.The amount of drag I feel is 110% going to cause issues sooner then later.Let me point out other things that ‘might’ happen that I witnessed.For the record your 4matic may be unique,this wont happen to you..

Now my car is in exc shape dealer maintained “till I got it” in 2019 and low miles for the year 99,500,still
i could have had things that were on the verge of going and this sped things up.I now hear noise in the front end,like immediately.Sounds like a bad bushing but it’s metal on metal over the slightest bump.Now this car already had front end work at the dealer.Control arms airshocks and few other things repaired But I’m not going to accept that whatever went wrong was going bad anyways because it wasn’t broke when the 17” wheels were on.Thats just the minor stuff that I swallowed.

1 week later I’m getting a clunk clunk clunk from the center console,you can feel it when your hand is on the shifter.Only when slowing down or at slow speeds.Nothing at high speed over 15mph.If im lucky it’s just the flex disc but it only happens at idle slow speed and it’s got me nervous as the shifter is right over the tranny and if I’m not mistaken the transfer case??I did have a kinda strong clunk when shifting from P to D or to R but never when car is driving.Actually car shifts smooth no slipping no noises.

All the sudden my car has a slight idle burp.I mean no big shaking,but it’s like not smooth like it was and has a slight kick you can feel.Ive read about motor tranny mounts,it’s possible.I did a full iridium tune up N new wires few months ago and idle was silky smooth.Car shows no codes at all.This could be coincidence,maybe...

To sum this up this is my 1st post if I posted wrong or too long of a post,I did not know the rules.I learned so much here I thought I’d share my experience and that instead of just hearing the don’t do it supposedly this or that will happen this is facts from experience. That’s how you should proceed when searching these threads,read what others have experienced on similar car and go with what is the overall conclusion or you’ll be taking chances.Chances that might cost you much more then your car is worth.

I originally found a Amg set of wheels for $800 and almost bought them just for the looks factor,something I never do.Ive been in the car business for 25 yrs have owned dealerships worked at Mercedes of Orland ‘Sales’ Bmw and GM ‘Chevy’.So I should know better. I’ve seen many people shed tears when they were given an estimate.Not tryng to make this a big deal this is just a new thread about staggered n 4matics..

The moral of the story is this is from someone who knows cars yet still dismissed the 90% of the mbworld threads and reply’s that warned against this and went with the ‘looks much better ’ that a few people posted.Same people who ask how big of a rim can I go with 20 22s,etc.This car is not a supercharged amg and I’ve accepted that.I accepted that driving to the muffler shop on the highway to cut the exhaust so it can sound better.Such a quiet ride I thought,and I decided not to cut the resonators swap mufflers.I did a cat delete for better breathing and that’s it.I kept my old cats ‘worth $200 in scrap’ never let the shop take them.

This car was meant for luxury comfortable ride.We do what makes us happy and that’s something to each his own. But when it comes to the ‘cause and effects’,going staggered or I can even see just going bigger wheels and tires Period specifically on a 4matic will have many negative effects.Here I sit looking for tires for my stock rims and hate my amg wheels.I almost paid $800 and got some for $250 with brand new tires,off I guy who was selling his 4MATIC and he happen to post these in his pictures and I inquired about them.

I mean I didn’t even think about it at the time he was selling a 4matic with crappy looking wheels and he had these amg wheels with brand new tires sitting in the garage.We swapped them to my friends Amg supercharged coupe and his car was smooth,no difference other then my tires are newer then his.

I’m goin to now search threads lookin for help to fix several things these wheels damaged.It might be bad or maybe if I’m lucky it will be only about $500 work.To end this long post,Incase someone is asking what’s the alternative,I’m looking to change to 235/60 or 235/65 tires for oem wheels.245 anything will take me backwards as the wheel will not have sufficient rubber to absorb the hits.245 I think is the perfect width but I don’t think this car w220 specifically s500 can be as smooth a ride with anything less then factory 55 height.So 225/65/17 is what I’m going to go with and if I have any issues I’m going 235/55/17 Wich I tried and is not perfect the car is too loose on bumps but better then jumping from 225 to 275

BTW the tires 275 R 245 F had 0 rubbing and actually I was shocked when I seen the car was actually looking like it had smaller wheels then the stocks.I had the car raised thinking I’d need it lifted to handle the wheels and they sit much lower then oem.

To be honest the car isn’t a beater and is near mint even the stock wheels don’t have a scratch or pit on them they’ll pass as brand new when washed looked 10x better.If you read this and it’s not taken down for excessive gibberish,DONT DO IT!

**If your car is already making noises and has a lot of wear and tear and your just ripping it around as a beater or you can care less about repairs you want the looks,then I’d tell you I got nothing but compliments and it made it look tougher and faster then it really was,and to go for it**

BUT I GUARANTEE you’ll become best friends with the undercarriage of your car,as you’ll be seeing a lot of each other.Not a bad thing,but a expensive 1

Apologies for such a long post....

 

Wow that was a long post but DO NOT put 65 series tires on your 17s!

what you need to do is use a size whose overall DIAMETER and tire height is the same or very close as the factory 225/55/17.

look at tirerack.com they post the diameter of all tires . A 225/55/17 has a 26.8 inch diameter and a 245/50/17 has a 26.7 inch diameter. So you would want to use a 245/50/17 tire . These will fit on the stock wheels

 

Here us a calculator to find out what will work in comparison to standard sizes w/o causing odometer trouble or failures
it is in German, but selfexplaining I think?
https://www.reifenrechner.at/

 

Thanks man for your help.
Finally got it right. I know cars but not a tire guy.I knew my little Camry had 225/60/16 that’s why I said this s500 is def off from the factory by a bit. I never thought of 245/50.I assumed anything over 245 was gonna be low profile Wich Im staying away from.But sure enough 245 seems is very popular from the factories on many cars and it goes up 50,55,etc and the tire gets taller Wich is what I needed.Anyhow thanks again.perfect size you recommended for a true comfort ride in my opinion after what I experienced.

 

Thank you man,I got 2 responses and that’s all I needed.now I learned tires.I Never knew the actual speed and the odometer would be effected by tire size and Now I do.And Im in the car buisness for a living,25yrs now. But always something new to learn.

 

very simple interaction of wheel size, speed and odometer logging. In order to keep the manufacturer's specs, you need to maintain the overall circumference of the wheels. The tire width multiplied by the profile (no indication is 80%) results in the sidewall hight. For example an 245 width and a 45 profile leads to a sidewall height of 245mm * 45% = 110.25mm. Sidewall height time 2 plus the diameter of the rim (in mm) leads to the total diameter of the wheel multiplied by pi (3.14) results in the circumference of the wheel. Changing the width or the rim dimensions, then you need to adapt the profile in order to keep the total circumference basically constant. If this value changes, the way the wheel travels in one round is different and so the odometer counting and the speed, as they just count the rounds of the wheel.

 

Sorry to bug you bamberger_1,,
Now my next task is repair all the damage the staggered setup did. Do i start a new thread so it will get more input or do I do it here?So much clunking going on in different places and chirpy bird noises when wheel is spinning there’s more. If you can guide me how to post this. I’m already retired my back is dead. I have workers but most of the time I’m telling them what to fix what’s the problems. THANKS

MOE

 

Hi Jack, I don't know at what point the car you are trying to fix is? Is it your car or a customer's car? First thing I would do, is to get the car back to factory state. Standard rims and standard tire size. Then check what kind of problems still are there. Then start a new thread with the latest findings. I really doubt that the "false" staggering is causing any of the noises or clunking. Those W220's have a certain age toward 20y and many of the rubber joints and moving parts wearing out over time, and become noisy. Most of the problems with wrong staggering are failures concerning ESP, ABS, BAS and Airmatic, as the wheels have different speeds outside the acceptable tolerances. The chirpy noises often come from corroded heat shields of disk brakes heat, as rusty parts start falling in between the small gap of the hub and those metal sheets. <Secondly the control arms of the Airmatic level sensors tend to corrode and start making noises. Clunking are most of the time worn out joints and other moving parts. For AWD noises, of corse could come from the front drive shafts, as the load is not well and evenly distributed, between front and rear.
Of corse this is all a kind of reading a crystal ball.

 

I’m pretty sure it’s his own car .

first thing is to put on the correct wheels and tire and then see what problems exist . They all seem to be separate issues . Have your shop Take a good look when the wheels and tires are off to look for worn or damaged parts

 

Sorry guys I posted it on the wrong thread

 

main reason you never do staggered tires on an AWD vehicle is because of stuff like this, it throws the gearing off and causes issues with the transfer case and differentials

 

It might be significant that Michelin cuts the tire-wear warranty in half on any staggered-tire setup, even if it is original equipment...

 

that has nothing to do with this thread or why not to run staggerd wheels on a 4matic, most tire companies do that cause you can’t do a full rotation

 

.... and your point is????