Benz shows off Brake Assist on TV...and new S CRASHES!!
11-19-2005, 08:50 PM
#51
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Mercedes all the way!
basically, i almost can't imagine a situation where this would be repeated. not only must the structure be completely enclosed, it also needs to be filled with metal girders.
i guess a very old underground carpark built with iron supports would suffice. or if your huge private carpark happens to be under repair with lots of scaffolding everwhere...
i guess a very old underground carpark built with iron supports would suffice. or if your huge private carpark happens to be under repair with lots of scaffolding everwhere...
11-19-2005, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ruykava
basically, i almost can't imagine a situation where this would be repeated. not only must the structure be completely enclosed, it also needs to be filled with metal girders.
i guess a very old underground carpark built with iron supports would suffice. or if your huge private carpark happens to be under repair with lots of scaffolding everwhere...
i guess a very old underground carpark built with iron supports would suffice. or if your huge private carpark happens to be under repair with lots of scaffolding everwhere...
11-20-2005, 12:21 AM
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Then again what kind of idiot would rely solely on a computer to brake for him in situations like this. The computer will help you stop faster.
This technology works, its as simple as that. Get over it. Im sure that even if Lexus and Honda did the same test with the same damn technology it would fail in a situation like this.
This technology works, its as simple as that. Get over it. Im sure that even if Lexus and Honda did the same test with the same damn technology it would fail in a situation like this.
11-21-2005, 11:59 AM
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I-10 in Phoenix has a fairly long tunnel going under the downtown area. This seems to be the area where traffic likes to come to a sudden, unexpected grinding halt for no good reason. So let's see, long tunnel, filled with lots of metal cars... 
11-21-2005, 04:33 PM
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Has DC come up with an official explanation of how they intend ensuring it won't happen in real life ?
I cannot believe that they will just leave the matter unresolved ..........
I cannot believe that they will just leave the matter unresolved ..........
11-21-2005, 05:23 PM
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A bunch of metal cars is alright because they are all different textures and they are not flat, so the radar can detect where the car is. The problem with the testing was the flat steel walls.
11-21-2005, 08:37 PM
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Mercedes all the way!
guys, guys, some of you are really hilarious. i've already posted what happened here.
completely enclosed (a tunnel is NOT completely enclosed - the ends are open) concrete building with steel girders everwhere is required. AND the engineers KNEW that the radar won't work in such a situation, before the test. the problem was, the driver didn't feel the signal (a piece of wood on the ground) to start braking. why was the signal required? because they KNEW brake assist won't work in such conditions. hence he crashed. it's as simple as that. get over it!
completely enclosed (a tunnel is NOT completely enclosed - the ends are open) concrete building with steel girders everwhere is required. AND the engineers KNEW that the radar won't work in such a situation, before the test. the problem was, the driver didn't feel the signal (a piece of wood on the ground) to start braking. why was the signal required? because they KNEW brake assist won't work in such conditions. hence he crashed. it's as simple as that. get over it!
11-21-2005, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ruykava
guys, guys, some of you are really hilarious. i've already posted what happened here.
completely enclosed (a tunnel is NOT completely enclosed - the ends are open) concrete building with steel girders everwhere is required. AND the engineers KNEW that the radar won't work in such a situation, before the test. the problem was, the driver didn't feel the signal (a piece of wood on the ground) to start braking. why was the signal required? because they KNEW brake assist won't work in such conditions. hence he crashed. it's as simple as that. get over it!
completely enclosed (a tunnel is NOT completely enclosed - the ends are open) concrete building with steel girders everwhere is required. AND the engineers KNEW that the radar won't work in such a situation, before the test. the problem was, the driver didn't feel the signal (a piece of wood on the ground) to start braking. why was the signal required? because they KNEW brake assist won't work in such conditions. hence he crashed. it's as simple as that. get over it!
11-22-2005, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakpro1
Man, talk about bad press. It just didn't work....guess I wouldn't be driving with my foot off the brake in the ole new S. Not that you ever would, but the way they pumped it....you kinda dreamed.
As you probably know, the new S-Class features a host of safety features not found on any other vehicles, one of which is a new Brake Assist Plus feature. If you're unfamiliar with Brake Assist Plus, it's a system that uses radar to detect traffic that may or may not be visible to the driver, and in the event that braking force is needed to prevent an accident, the Brake Assist system kicks in and supplies the necessary stopping power.
Mercedes recently decided to demonstrate this safety feature for Germany's Star TV, but unfortunately for the donor S-Class, all didn't go as planned.
To showcase the Brake Assist Plus feature, a test track was set up, complete with heavy fog and a hidden stationary test vehicle, to compare the previous S-Class to the forthcoming 2007 model. The previous S-Class was then sent traveling down the track, which collided with the stationary vehicle due to the low visibility.
Next, it was time for the 2007 S-Class to perform the same test, but thanks to Brake Assist Plus, the safety system was supposed to kick in and stop the vehicle in time. Guess what? It didn't work. The S-Class traveled down the track, collided with the previous S-Class, which then collided with the stationary test vehicle.
After closer inspection, the Mercedes engineers believe the failed test came as a result of the high steel and concrete construction of the testing facilities throwing off the Brake Assist Plus' radar, but assures drivers in real world conditions, the system will work as planned.
The moral of the story is this: if you're driving an S-Class, you're an intelligent individual. Regardless of whether or not the safety systems work, reading the Wall Street Journal, conducting a conference call and drinking a café latte while traveling at 70+mph is never a smart idea. Remember kids, there's no substitute for safe driving.
As you probably know, the new S-Class features a host of safety features not found on any other vehicles, one of which is a new Brake Assist Plus feature. If you're unfamiliar with Brake Assist Plus, it's a system that uses radar to detect traffic that may or may not be visible to the driver, and in the event that braking force is needed to prevent an accident, the Brake Assist system kicks in and supplies the necessary stopping power.
Mercedes recently decided to demonstrate this safety feature for Germany's Star TV, but unfortunately for the donor S-Class, all didn't go as planned.
To showcase the Brake Assist Plus feature, a test track was set up, complete with heavy fog and a hidden stationary test vehicle, to compare the previous S-Class to the forthcoming 2007 model. The previous S-Class was then sent traveling down the track, which collided with the stationary vehicle due to the low visibility.
Next, it was time for the 2007 S-Class to perform the same test, but thanks to Brake Assist Plus, the safety system was supposed to kick in and stop the vehicle in time. Guess what? It didn't work. The S-Class traveled down the track, collided with the previous S-Class, which then collided with the stationary test vehicle.
After closer inspection, the Mercedes engineers believe the failed test came as a result of the high steel and concrete construction of the testing facilities throwing off the Brake Assist Plus' radar, but assures drivers in real world conditions, the system will work as planned.
The moral of the story is this: if you're driving an S-Class, you're an intelligent individual. Regardless of whether or not the safety systems work, reading the Wall Street Journal, conducting a conference call and drinking a café latte while traveling at 70+mph is never a smart idea. Remember kids, there's no substitute for safe driving.
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...&Number=160519
for a link to the actual video and an English language synopsis.
11-22-2005, 06:38 AM
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Mercedes all the way!
i see your link, but it's all hearsay with not a single source anywhere.
it would be interesting if star tv is so stupid as to see a plank on the floor and not realise what it's doing there - or if mercedes actually thought they could get away with cheating. i seriously doubt it.
from the original autobild article, this was never meant to be a test of the radar system - note: BAS PLUS and DISTRONIC PLUS are different things, and the test was about BAS PLUS. indeed, the driver did not say he SET THE CRUISE CONTROL (so the radar was off during the test) - instead, he set the speed LIMITER. the limiter does not trigger the radar at all.
the test was to see how fast the car could brake.
SOMEBODY, somewhere, is distorting it via inaccurate reporting.
if you think about it, the radar cruise control system (Distronic Plus) was never meant to stop the car - it is to follow the car in front at a safe distance, while BOTH are moving - down to stop-start traffic, of course. but it is NOT meant to stop a car from colliding with a STATIONARY car in front - you can imagine how the relative velocity between the two is enormously larger in the second situation. 55km/h is hardly "stop and go" traffic.
a test where one vehicle is stationary and another is moving could only be a test of BAS PLUS - i.e., how fast the emergency braking system can react.
if the Merc people were claiming otherwise, then they would, indeed, be in very hot soup - either they did not understand the car systems (i.e. what it is MEANT to do) or they tried to cheat - and these few deserve to be fired. the way i see it though, it has got more to do with sensationalistic media reporting.
it would be interesting if star tv is so stupid as to see a plank on the floor and not realise what it's doing there - or if mercedes actually thought they could get away with cheating. i seriously doubt it.
from the original autobild article, this was never meant to be a test of the radar system - note: BAS PLUS and DISTRONIC PLUS are different things, and the test was about BAS PLUS. indeed, the driver did not say he SET THE CRUISE CONTROL (so the radar was off during the test) - instead, he set the speed LIMITER. the limiter does not trigger the radar at all.
the test was to see how fast the car could brake.
SOMEBODY, somewhere, is distorting it via inaccurate reporting.
if you think about it, the radar cruise control system (Distronic Plus) was never meant to stop the car - it is to follow the car in front at a safe distance, while BOTH are moving - down to stop-start traffic, of course. but it is NOT meant to stop a car from colliding with a STATIONARY car in front - you can imagine how the relative velocity between the two is enormously larger in the second situation. 55km/h is hardly "stop and go" traffic.
a test where one vehicle is stationary and another is moving could only be a test of BAS PLUS - i.e., how fast the emergency braking system can react.
if the Merc people were claiming otherwise, then they would, indeed, be in very hot soup - either they did not understand the car systems (i.e. what it is MEANT to do) or they tried to cheat - and these few deserve to be fired. the way i see it though, it has got more to do with sensationalistic media reporting.
11-22-2005, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ruykava
i see your link, but it's all hearsay with not a single source anywhere.
it would be interesting if star tv is so stupid as to see a plank on the floor and not realise what it's doing there - or if mercedes actually thought they could get away with cheating. i seriously doubt it.
from the original autobild article, this was never meant to be a test of the radar system - note: BAS PLUS and DISTRONIC PLUS are different things, and the test was about BAS PLUS. indeed, the driver did not say he SET THE CRUISE CONTROL (so the radar was off during the test) - instead, he set the speed LIMITER. the limiter does not trigger the radar at all.
the test was to see how fast the car could brake.
SOMEBODY, somewhere, is distorting it via inaccurate reporting.
if you think about it, the radar cruise control system (Distronic Plus) was never meant to stop the car - it is to follow the car in front at a safe distance, while BOTH are moving - down to stop-start traffic, of course. but it is NOT meant to stop a car from colliding with a STATIONARY car in front - you can imagine how the relative velocity between the two is enormously larger in the second situation. 55km/h is hardly "stop and go" traffic.
a test where one vehicle is stationary and another is moving could only be a test of BAS PLUS - i.e., how fast the emergency braking system can react.
if the Merc people were claiming otherwise, then they would, indeed, be in very hot soup - either they did not understand the car systems (i.e. what it is MEANT to do) or they tried to cheat - and these few deserve to be fired. the way i see it though, it has got more to do with sensationalistic media reporting.
it would be interesting if star tv is so stupid as to see a plank on the floor and not realise what it's doing there - or if mercedes actually thought they could get away with cheating. i seriously doubt it.
from the original autobild article, this was never meant to be a test of the radar system - note: BAS PLUS and DISTRONIC PLUS are different things, and the test was about BAS PLUS. indeed, the driver did not say he SET THE CRUISE CONTROL (so the radar was off during the test) - instead, he set the speed LIMITER. the limiter does not trigger the radar at all.
the test was to see how fast the car could brake.
SOMEBODY, somewhere, is distorting it via inaccurate reporting.
if you think about it, the radar cruise control system (Distronic Plus) was never meant to stop the car - it is to follow the car in front at a safe distance, while BOTH are moving - down to stop-start traffic, of course. but it is NOT meant to stop a car from colliding with a STATIONARY car in front - you can imagine how the relative velocity between the two is enormously larger in the second situation. 55km/h is hardly "stop and go" traffic.
a test where one vehicle is stationary and another is moving could only be a test of BAS PLUS - i.e., how fast the emergency braking system can react.
if the Merc people were claiming otherwise, then they would, indeed, be in very hot soup - either they did not understand the car systems (i.e. what it is MEANT to do) or they tried to cheat - and these few deserve to be fired. the way i see it though, it has got more to do with sensationalistic media reporting.
http://www.stern.de/tv/sterntv/549835.html?nv=cp_L2_
In my book, that's a primary source and it doesn't get any more real or direct than that. And you should also know that the AutoBild reporter was the driver who was in cohorts with MB, and he was subsequently fired for fabricating his story.
If the test was to see how fast the car could brake, then why did they need to put up all that fog?
11-22-2005, 05:55 PM
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Mercedes all the way!
ah, sorry, didn't see the link embedded there. thanks for pointing it out.
i can't catch the quick spoken german, unfortunately. perhaps someone can help out
wolfgang? 
however, it is very clear when you see the video that Stern TV were well aware that the plank was there.
as for the fog, well, it simulates the situation where you can't see the car in front fast enough to brake, doesn't it? you do have a point there though that it wasn't necessary. so i won't say more.
as for the journalist being fired, besides the above link i've not seen any independent sources about it.
i'm not trying to defend Mercedes here - just trying to see what really happened. after all, a valid explanation has already been tendered. always frustrating when different sources have very different facts. autospies now has a COMPLETELY wrong story where they said BOTH S-classes were supposed to brake automatically, and BOTH failed! wtf??
i can't catch the quick spoken german, unfortunately. perhaps someone can help out
wolfgang? however, it is very clear when you see the video that Stern TV were well aware that the plank was there.
as for the fog, well, it simulates the situation where you can't see the car in front fast enough to brake, doesn't it? you do have a point there though that it wasn't necessary. so i won't say more.
as for the journalist being fired, besides the above link i've not seen any independent sources about it.
i'm not trying to defend Mercedes here - just trying to see what really happened. after all, a valid explanation has already been tendered. always frustrating when different sources have very different facts. autospies now has a COMPLETELY wrong story where they said BOTH S-classes were supposed to brake automatically, and BOTH failed! wtf??
11-23-2005, 01:45 PM
#65
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This whole test has gotten everybody confused - I think we need to clarify.
BAS - Brake Assist System
This system detects sudden movements in the pedals where the vehicle thinks this means a emergency brake situation. The vehicle will automatically provide full braking power even if the brakes are pushed only, for instance, 80%. The activation depends on the speed of actuation of the brakes.
Note: This technology has been around since the SBC has been available - it came with my 2003 E55. This is not ground breaking technology for the new S-class.
In regards to this test - This test was NOT about BAS at all!
1. There is no reason to have 2 s-classes to show this test, unless one of them did not have BAS activated.
2. Why have the fog? For BAS to work, the driver needs to actively push the brake. Thus the driver will push the brakes when he sees the car too late. Why not just have the same braking points where the driver will smash the pedal at the same time with the BAS stopping sooner. No need to crash the car, especially since this isn't new technology.
Distronic Plus - Radar Cruise Control
This system actively accelerates and brakes the vehicle depending on the surrounding vehicles. The Plus is an upgrade to the distronic I have in my vehicle, where it will brake under 25 mph to stop and go traffic. The system will also work in reduced visibility scenarios - the car will slow down to a vehicle 150 feet away, even if visibility is 10 feet.
Regarding the test - This makes perfect sense in testing a new system in reduced visibility scenarios. The ability for the system to stop completely is a new level of cruise control - my current distronic does not allow this.
1. The test parameters effectively show the difference between a car not equipped with distronic plus vs. a car with distronic plus. With a driver unable to see a car in front, a radar system would be able to show where the car is, and will warn the driver of a car there and brake as well.
2. Distronic+plus was highly marketed and tested as being a desired option, thus making a big deal about this system to sell this option was a great move by Mercedes. Surely a lot of development costs went into this system.
Where they went wrong - the test and development engineers should have known the consequences of testing in an enclosed space with walls that could interfere with the accuracy of the radar. With the level of validation and knowledge of radar systems, they should have! Most likely, they probably did, but perhaps found out a bit late - thus the need for an experienced driver and the alleged "stop marker" to continue with the scheduled press release. This system just didn't work in the test conditions presented. Simply put, the Distronic Plus system was expected to be presented to the public, but failed due to test conditions.
I still have great expectations of this new system, since I feel the stop and go ability was lacking from my current distronic car. However, this system has much more liability effects, since the car cannot predict all real-world situations and act accordingly. Merecedes simply created a mess attempting to test their car the way they did. Unfortunately this will translate to a dangerous system to rely on, which it is. Whomever here preaches about how perfect the distronic system is (as well as any other mercedes technology) I assume does not have this system on their car. It's useful and a convenience, but it will mess up! I've had to intervene on real sharp turns where it thought the car in front was not there and decided to speed up - I had to hit the brakes and turn it off on the turn.
BAS - Brake Assist System
This system detects sudden movements in the pedals where the vehicle thinks this means a emergency brake situation. The vehicle will automatically provide full braking power even if the brakes are pushed only, for instance, 80%. The activation depends on the speed of actuation of the brakes.
Note: This technology has been around since the SBC has been available - it came with my 2003 E55. This is not ground breaking technology for the new S-class.
In regards to this test - This test was NOT about BAS at all!
1. There is no reason to have 2 s-classes to show this test, unless one of them did not have BAS activated.
2. Why have the fog? For BAS to work, the driver needs to actively push the brake. Thus the driver will push the brakes when he sees the car too late. Why not just have the same braking points where the driver will smash the pedal at the same time with the BAS stopping sooner. No need to crash the car, especially since this isn't new technology.
Distronic Plus - Radar Cruise Control
This system actively accelerates and brakes the vehicle depending on the surrounding vehicles. The Plus is an upgrade to the distronic I have in my vehicle, where it will brake under 25 mph to stop and go traffic. The system will also work in reduced visibility scenarios - the car will slow down to a vehicle 150 feet away, even if visibility is 10 feet.
Regarding the test - This makes perfect sense in testing a new system in reduced visibility scenarios. The ability for the system to stop completely is a new level of cruise control - my current distronic does not allow this.
1. The test parameters effectively show the difference between a car not equipped with distronic plus vs. a car with distronic plus. With a driver unable to see a car in front, a radar system would be able to show where the car is, and will warn the driver of a car there and brake as well.
2. Distronic+plus was highly marketed and tested as being a desired option, thus making a big deal about this system to sell this option was a great move by Mercedes. Surely a lot of development costs went into this system.
Where they went wrong - the test and development engineers should have known the consequences of testing in an enclosed space with walls that could interfere with the accuracy of the radar. With the level of validation and knowledge of radar systems, they should have! Most likely, they probably did, but perhaps found out a bit late - thus the need for an experienced driver and the alleged "stop marker" to continue with the scheduled press release. This system just didn't work in the test conditions presented. Simply put, the Distronic Plus system was expected to be presented to the public, but failed due to test conditions.
I still have great expectations of this new system, since I feel the stop and go ability was lacking from my current distronic car. However, this system has much more liability effects, since the car cannot predict all real-world situations and act accordingly. Merecedes simply created a mess attempting to test their car the way they did. Unfortunately this will translate to a dangerous system to rely on, which it is. Whomever here preaches about how perfect the distronic system is (as well as any other mercedes technology) I assume does not have this system on their car. It's useful and a convenience, but it will mess up! I've had to intervene on real sharp turns where it thought the car in front was not there and decided to speed up - I had to hit the brakes and turn it off on the turn.
11-23-2005, 01:59 PM
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2. Why have the fog? For BAS to work, the driver needs to actively push the brake. Thus the driver will push the brakes when he sees the car too late. Why not just have the same braking points where the driver will smash the pedal at the same time with the BAS stopping sooner. No need to crash the car, especially since this isn't new technology.
11-23-2005, 02:39 PM
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CLS-500, SL-500, BOXSTER-S
Personally, I feel MB blew it regardless of the reasons why. There is now a controversy looming over MB that gives the "appearance" of a poor product and a cover up. Imagine if BMW had the same thing happen to their flagship model. We would be all over it complaining about how poor their cars were, ect, ect..... think about it.
11-23-2005, 04:16 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by asianml
I think they had the fog to make the test as real as possible. The driver not being able to see anything, then sees a car, then slams the brake.
Actually, I'm no gonna try explaining your above remark since you are diverging from your previous posts and obviously you overlooked the main reason of my previous post.
BAS has NO connection with the radar on the car. NONE. BAS happens with human interaction, not a radar. This test had to do with the metal walls, and their effect on RADAR (NOT BAS) which you so convincingly explained in a previous post. The radar has to do with DISTRONIC PLUS!!
Distronic Plus Failed due to the test environment. The technology has it's flaws, as I pointed out in my previous post. Mercedes didn't properly control this test and payed a big price. End of story.
Understanding the level of validation and testing of the products, I work for a Tier One German supplier who supplied the new S class with the full HVAC unit. This was not a case of human error. They would not conduct this test to rely solely on human error - this failure was due to technology gone wrong. I think this debate is still going on due to MB defenders who think these cars are perfect - they arent, not even close.
11-23-2005, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by anerbe
BAS has NO connection with the radar on the car. NONE. BAS happens with human interaction, not a radar. This test had to do with the metal walls, and their effect on RADAR (NOT BAS) which you so convincingly explained in a previous post. The radar has to do with DISTRONIC PLUS!!
11-23-2005, 07:31 PM
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Mercedes all the way!
anerbe: thanks for the clarification. i had touched on the differences between the two systems in a previous post as well, which you have fleshed out nicely.
now, the problem is this. in BOTH the Stern TV footage, and the autobild article, it was clear that the testers KNEW, or at least strongly suspected, that the radar would not work. both noted the fact that the driver should have braked when he hit the plank. and it seems the driver did not do so. from the article, it seems the radar was not even turned on! so the question still remains: what were they trying to do originally.
mercedes_benz_#: you are correct in saying BAS PLUS only brakes when the driver applies pressure on the brakes. however, the system, if it's turned on, does warn you if something is getting too close.
now, the problem is this. in BOTH the Stern TV footage, and the autobild article, it was clear that the testers KNEW, or at least strongly suspected, that the radar would not work. both noted the fact that the driver should have braked when he hit the plank. and it seems the driver did not do so. from the article, it seems the radar was not even turned on! so the question still remains: what were they trying to do originally.
mercedes_benz_#: you are correct in saying BAS PLUS only brakes when the driver applies pressure on the brakes. however, the system, if it's turned on, does warn you if something is getting too close.
11-24-2005, 12:27 AM
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******************************
Heres a direct download link to a review on the S-Class and the crash Right Click, Save As....
11-24-2005, 01:03 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by Mercedes Benz #
Yes it does. The S-class uses a new generation of BAS called BAS plus. The radar detects a potential impact but waits for the driver to press the brakes before applying enough braking pressure to stop on time. The system still waits for the driver to react, and does not apply brakes automatically. It uses a different radar frequency to Distronic. It is not the same BAS system fitted to any other Mercedes.
knowing it uses a separate radar, I question the following:
How much time is saved having the car prime the brakes when it sees front images on radar as "threatening" vs. having the car prime the brakes when you make sudden pedal movements. Ultimately, the driver will have to step on the brakes when he sees the need to. The amount of distance saved with BAS plus may be negligable. The only useful part of this is the warning signal that an obstacle is in the road, in the fog (or adverse weather conditions). It still requires full driver involvement, where the driver has to make judgement when to brake.
- I find this system with it's flaws too - what happens if there's a car in front that is stationary/slow that you assume (know) will take a turn before you get there? If you try to slow down moderately, will it slam the brakes? Or will it sense how fast you hit the brakes, thus making the 'plus' nothing more than a warning that an object is ahead.
Whatever radar test this was - Benz botched up. Vehicles are moving drivers away from actually driving the car (distronic, BAS 'plus', etc...) and focusing on changing the station/mobile office. Pretty scary actually.
11-24-2005, 03:02 AM
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No problem anerbe.
Great question also, and I honestly have no idea. These systems were tested over millions of kilometeres on simulators and real world driving, so I would assume these situations would have been encountered.
In one article, a Mercedes engineer did say that the system was powerful enough to allow the car to determine when braking was required and intervene itself, even before driver intervention, but legal issues (i.e a chance that the system does fail) prevented them from moving it to this level.
I think in this case Mercedes just wanted to show off the cars systems in their high tech safety centre despite knowing the systems wouldn't work, and subsquently stuffed up big time. A case where the markerters and PR team took preference over the actual engineering and safety considerations the engineers were no doubt aware of. 
Thank god it wasn't televised around the world like the A-class fiasco.
Great question also, and I honestly have no idea. These systems were tested over millions of kilometeres on simulators and real world driving, so I would assume these situations would have been encountered.
In one article, a Mercedes engineer did say that the system was powerful enough to allow the car to determine when braking was required and intervene itself, even before driver intervention, but legal issues (i.e a chance that the system does fail) prevented them from moving it to this level. I think in this case Mercedes just wanted to show off the cars systems in their high tech safety centre despite knowing the systems wouldn't work, and subsquently stuffed up big time. A case where the markerters and PR team took preference over the actual engineering and safety considerations the engineers were no doubt aware of.
Thank god it wasn't televised around the world like the A-class fiasco.
11-28-2005, 06:04 PM
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2003 C230 Coupe
POsted earlier:
The radar for distronic is on the W-Band @ 77ghz.
I'm trying to find what kind of things can interfere with it at that frequency or whatever.
Answer:
As a Telecommunications engineer I can assure you that there is nothing out there in use that comes close to that frequency , so MB has good engineering behind this. I actually saw a test car in Germany being tested more than 5 years ago, so they are really trying to make sure your cell phone, etc will not interfere with it.
The problem with doing a test in an enclosed area like that is that the radar electronics and software got several returned signals from different directions . Some of those returned signals may have had a much stronger level (i.e. metal enclosure) than the car stopped in front and the system may have assumed that to be the highest threat and considered it not to be close enough to the car to activate the brakes. In any case, engineering is allways evolving and bugs are fixed or performance is enhanced.
It would be great, if any other car manufacturer were as pro-active as MB to come up with safety improvements. This is a definite improvement that would reduce rear endings and neck pain for many of us. Even as it is there is already a major safety improvement for most driving situations.
Why is it that many are quick to put down and accuse , instead of looking at the long term good side for all of us?
BTW: most manufacturers will gladly continue copying the MB car designs (did you ever see a Lexus LS rear ahead of you and thought it was a MB? did you ever see a Honda rear and thought it was a BMW?) . At times they may copy some of these engineering advances, but it usually takes more than 10 years for some, if ever.
Did you complainers ever stop to look at the picture to see how small the damage was comparing to the rear endings you see almost daily in major cities when driving around?
Press is usually quite quick to write what they think will sell the most. I would be interested to know the real story. Did the distronic system activate but was the floor wet or iced up and the stopping distance got affected somehow?
I also watched the video posted by stangg172005 above, showing the car tests and you can clearly see the old S model Smashing into the wall while the new one actually slowed down quite a bit before hitting the other car. You can hear the wheels skidding, so the brakes did get activated. Perhaps the answer is better quality tires and/or adjust the system to act earlier and not assume that ABS will be able to reduce stopping distances.
Did you notice that the actual impact was so small compared to the other car that no air bags popped out (just there saved a few $$$$? Did you notice the test driver was still alive?
The radar for distronic is on the W-Band @ 77ghz.
I'm trying to find what kind of things can interfere with it at that frequency or whatever.
Answer:
As a Telecommunications engineer I can assure you that there is nothing out there in use that comes close to that frequency , so MB has good engineering behind this. I actually saw a test car in Germany being tested more than 5 years ago, so they are really trying to make sure your cell phone, etc will not interfere with it.
The problem with doing a test in an enclosed area like that is that the radar electronics and software got several returned signals from different directions . Some of those returned signals may have had a much stronger level (i.e. metal enclosure) than the car stopped in front and the system may have assumed that to be the highest threat and considered it not to be close enough to the car to activate the brakes. In any case, engineering is allways evolving and bugs are fixed or performance is enhanced.
It would be great, if any other car manufacturer were as pro-active as MB to come up with safety improvements. This is a definite improvement that would reduce rear endings and neck pain for many of us. Even as it is there is already a major safety improvement for most driving situations.
Why is it that many are quick to put down and accuse , instead of looking at the long term good side for all of us?
BTW: most manufacturers will gladly continue copying the MB car designs (did you ever see a Lexus LS rear ahead of you and thought it was a MB? did you ever see a Honda rear and thought it was a BMW?) . At times they may copy some of these engineering advances, but it usually takes more than 10 years for some, if ever.
Did you complainers ever stop to look at the picture to see how small the damage was comparing to the rear endings you see almost daily in major cities when driving around?
Press is usually quite quick to write what they think will sell the most. I would be interested to know the real story. Did the distronic system activate but was the floor wet or iced up and the stopping distance got affected somehow?
I also watched the video posted by stangg172005 above, showing the car tests and you can clearly see the old S model Smashing into the wall while the new one actually slowed down quite a bit before hitting the other car. You can hear the wheels skidding, so the brakes did get activated. Perhaps the answer is better quality tires and/or adjust the system to act earlier and not assume that ABS will be able to reduce stopping distances.
Did you notice that the actual impact was so small compared to the other car that no air bags popped out (just there saved a few $$$$? Did you notice the test driver was still alive?
Last edited by guanabara; 11-28-2005 at 06:18 PM.
