A real challenge to the new W221?
01-13-2006, 01:22 PM
#51
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Lexus is first class
One can say the Lexus is boring, but I rarely had to take my two in for service. I have the SL55 now, but I would not hesitate to own a Lexus in the future. There is nothing boring about luxury.
I have read that the new W221 is "softer." Perhaps the S is becoming more Lexus-like.
I have read that the new W221 is "softer." Perhaps the S is becoming more Lexus-like.
01-13-2006, 01:28 PM
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The new S is far from being a Lexus, which im my books is a good thing.
The funny thing is the Mercedes will handle better with its ABC or Airmatic suspensions and not have to rev as high to get power out of the engine, which in my books is a good thing.
The funny thing is the Mercedes will handle better with its ABC or Airmatic suspensions and not have to rev as high to get power out of the engine, which in my books is a good thing.
01-14-2006, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MB Fanatic
The new S is far from being a Lexus, which im my books is a good thing.
The funny thing is the Mercedes will handle better with its ABC or Airmatic suspensions and not have to rev as high to get power out of the engine, which in my books is a good thing.
The funny thing is the Mercedes will handle better with its ABC or Airmatic suspensions and not have to rev as high to get power out of the engine, which in my books is a good thing.
As loyal as I am to Mercedes, the new LS is really impressive, but I have to see it in person to decide whether or not its for me.
01-14-2006, 05:39 PM
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
I don't think any of us here have a clue of what you're trying to say.
1. What do you mean fair: both S and LS are fullsize luxury sedan, target at the same customer base, why shoudn't we compare them ?
2. So you saw the new S550 at the dealer, and it's "ALL S" class. So I guess whatever other people saw must be "partial S" class ?
3. So you say every component of the Lexus seem to be stolen from other cars. Doesn't the interior of the new W221 remind you of some other car (hint: Bimmer), how about the trunk lid/back ?.
4. Think Mercedes is ahead of the rest in term of technology ? That might be true 10-15 years ago, but now, it's no longer the case. For example: the W220 doesn't even have active headlight, laser based cruise control, touch screen GPS. I guess you don't watch Fomula-1 racing, Toyota engine smoke the rest by ages, and you're probably right in this case: Lexus wouldn't mind to "copy" the superior from their racing engine design brother into its own engine. Let's not talk about the electronic here....
5. So the new W221 have slot of SD (listen to MP3 music), wooow, big deal ? A $120 Sony car stereo unit at Circuit City has that feature, a year ago....
6. Your Jeep have DVD based GPS ? So ???
The S is a great car, no doubt about it. However, stop smoking Benz exhaust fume and think no other car should dare to be compared with it.
Btw, the W221 will be on sale in the US in Feb, as "2007" model. How pity: car made in 2005, sold as "2007". The rest of the world has it as "2006" model year, must feel great driving the first "2007" car in the US market then.
Make sure you talk to those who bought the w220 when it first came out in 99 to prepare yourself for frequent dealer visit.
1. What do you mean fair: both S and LS are fullsize luxury sedan, target at the same customer base, why shoudn't we compare them ?
2. So you saw the new S550 at the dealer, and it's "ALL S" class. So I guess whatever other people saw must be "partial S" class ?
3. So you say every component of the Lexus seem to be stolen from other cars. Doesn't the interior of the new W221 remind you of some other car (hint: Bimmer), how about the trunk lid/back ?.
4. Think Mercedes is ahead of the rest in term of technology ? That might be true 10-15 years ago, but now, it's no longer the case. For example: the W220 doesn't even have active headlight, laser based cruise control, touch screen GPS. I guess you don't watch Fomula-1 racing, Toyota engine smoke the rest by ages, and you're probably right in this case: Lexus wouldn't mind to "copy" the superior from their racing engine design brother into its own engine. Let's not talk about the electronic here....
5. So the new W221 have slot of SD (listen to MP3 music), wooow, big deal ? A $120 Sony car stereo unit at Circuit City has that feature, a year ago....
6. Your Jeep have DVD based GPS ? So ???
The S is a great car, no doubt about it. However, stop smoking Benz exhaust fume and think no other car should dare to be compared with it.
Btw, the W221 will be on sale in the US in Feb, as "2007" model. How pity: car made in 2005, sold as "2007". The rest of the world has it as "2006" model year, must feel great driving the first "2007" car in the US market then.
Make sure you talk to those who bought the w220 when it first came out in 99 to prepare yourself for frequent dealer visit.
Originally Posted by jangy
Challenge? Make sure you compare the Lexus to the NEW S550. I saw on last night at the dealership and it is ALL S class. Let's see....a 5.5liter versus a 4.6L? Also, nno disrespect to any Lexus fans, but, why is EVERY aspect of that car stolen from somewhere else?? Hell, i have the DVD in my Jeep. Also, the new S Does have the card and card only for a key.
If you guys want to compare, at least be fair.
p.s. I can get a new S within the next month, so again be fair.
If you guys want to compare, at least be fair.
p.s. I can get a new S within the next month, so again be fair.
Last edited by zam2000; 01-14-2006 at 05:46 PM.
01-14-2006, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by zam2000
I don't think any of us here have a clue of what you're trying to say.
1. What do you mean fair: both S and LS are fullsize luxury sedan, target at the same customer base, why shoudn't we compare them ?
2. So you saw the new S550 at the dealer, and it's "ALL S" class. So I guess whatever other people saw must be "partial S" class ?
3. So you say every component of the Lexus seem to be stolen from other cars. Doesn't the interior of the new W221 remind you of some other car (hint: Bimmer), how about the trunk lid/back ?.
4. Think Mercedes is ahead of the rest in term of technology ? That might be true 10-15 years ago, but now, it's no longer the case. For example: the W220 doesn't even have active headlight, laser based cruise control, touch screen GPS. I guess you don't watch Fomula-1 racing, Toyota engine smoke the rest by ages, and you're probably right in this case: Lexus wouldn't mind to "copy" the superior from their racing engine design brother into its own engine. Let's not talk about the electronic here....
5. So the new W221 have slot of SD (listen to MP3 music), wooow, big deal ? A $120 Sony car stereo unit at Circuit City has that feature, a year ago....
6. Your Jeep have DVD based GPS ? So ???
The S is a great car, no doubt about it. However, stop smoking Benz exhaust fume and think no other car should dare to be compared with it.
Btw, the W221 will be on sale in the US in Feb, as "2007" model. How pity: car made in 2005, sold as "2007". The rest of the world has it as "2006" model year, must feel great driving the first "2007" car in the US market then.
Make sure you talk to those who bought the w220 when it first came out in 99 to prepare yourself for frequent dealer visit.
1. What do you mean fair: both S and LS are fullsize luxury sedan, target at the same customer base, why shoudn't we compare them ?
2. So you saw the new S550 at the dealer, and it's "ALL S" class. So I guess whatever other people saw must be "partial S" class ?
3. So you say every component of the Lexus seem to be stolen from other cars. Doesn't the interior of the new W221 remind you of some other car (hint: Bimmer), how about the trunk lid/back ?.
4. Think Mercedes is ahead of the rest in term of technology ? That might be true 10-15 years ago, but now, it's no longer the case. For example: the W220 doesn't even have active headlight, laser based cruise control, touch screen GPS. I guess you don't watch Fomula-1 racing, Toyota engine smoke the rest by ages, and you're probably right in this case: Lexus wouldn't mind to "copy" the superior from their racing engine design brother into its own engine. Let's not talk about the electronic here....
5. So the new W221 have slot of SD (listen to MP3 music), wooow, big deal ? A $120 Sony car stereo unit at Circuit City has that feature, a year ago....
6. Your Jeep have DVD based GPS ? So ???
The S is a great car, no doubt about it. However, stop smoking Benz exhaust fume and think no other car should dare to be compared with it.
Btw, the W221 will be on sale in the US in Feb, as "2007" model. How pity: car made in 2005, sold as "2007". The rest of the world has it as "2006" model year, must feel great driving the first "2007" car in the US market then.
Make sure you talk to those who bought the w220 when it first came out in 99 to prepare yourself for frequent dealer visit.
01-14-2006, 10:28 PM
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2005 Mercedes SLK350
Originally Posted by StephenK
I am always disappointed with Lexus do to one main thing. They lack BIG POWER in all of their lines. Wonder why they don't introduce some muscle when that seems to be what most manufacturers are doing.
01-14-2006, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by knihc2008
is 380 horsepower not enough for you?
dont worry everyone you dont have to buy a Toyota or a copy of anything it's a free country you're welcome to keep praising the w221's rx-8 flares, crown vic/745 interior and 745 rear as a Mercedes innovation.
01-15-2006, 02:57 AM
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2005 Mercedes SLK350
Originally Posted by Braheem
380 out of a 4.6 by that standard thier 6.3 would have 540HP
dont worry everyone you dont have to buy a Toyota or a copy of anything it's a free country you're welcome to keep praising the w221's rx-8 flares, crown vic/745 interior and 745 rear as a Mercedes innovation.
dont worry everyone you dont have to buy a Toyota or a copy of anything it's a free country you're welcome to keep praising the w221's rx-8 flares, crown vic/745 interior and 745 rear as a Mercedes innovation.
i also forgot to mention in my previous post the 306 horsepower the new IS has, which officially makes StephenK so wrong it's not even worth it.
01-15-2006, 03:10 AM
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I think the advantage the Mercedes 5.5 liter engine will have over the LS engine is the sheer fact that the torque will be produced much earlier on in the rpm range over the LS. This makes for a great driving pleasure for a luxo cruiser as you dont have to rev the ***** to get some power out of it.
Im sorry but it sounds like the new LS engine is going to be about as anemic as the Lexus IS350 given they both seem to share much of the same technology such as direct injection, DOHC, and what not.
Also whats the deal with only one seat reclining in the back? I want all my passengers to be comfortable, not vice versa.
And you are talking about Mercedes copying design characters? Look at the new LS. I see RL, W221, 7 series, 5 series, and another car that I posted in this thread I think. I still think the LS is a miss in the design department while the S is a success.
Hell Acura has the new Bangle *** on the new RL so stop smoking MB for copying it. It seems to be a trend and a good once since it provides more trunk space.
Last but not least, the flares are not that bad in person. In fact, they give the car a very different character from all the other cars out there. It makes a bold presence and a IMO will be a far better car than the LS.
Asian ML, I have plenty of books. Probably more than 2K books from my schooling to personal enjoyment reading.
Im sorry but it sounds like the new LS engine is going to be about as anemic as the Lexus IS350 given they both seem to share much of the same technology such as direct injection, DOHC, and what not.
Also whats the deal with only one seat reclining in the back? I want all my passengers to be comfortable, not vice versa.
And you are talking about Mercedes copying design characters? Look at the new LS. I see RL, W221, 7 series, 5 series, and another car that I posted in this thread I think. I still think the LS is a miss in the design department while the S is a success.
Hell Acura has the new Bangle *** on the new RL so stop smoking MB for copying it. It seems to be a trend and a good once since it provides more trunk space.
Last but not least, the flares are not that bad in person. In fact, they give the car a very different character from all the other cars out there. It makes a bold presence and a IMO will be a far better car than the LS.
Asian ML, I have plenty of books. Probably more than 2K books from my schooling to personal enjoyment reading.
01-15-2006, 04:22 AM
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how can you possibly call the IS350's engine anemic? it has 306 horsepower, it is the fastest car in it's class. if that's anemic to you then... well there is no then. that's just wrong.
as far as the rear seats go, in order for the seats to recline i'd think the front passenger seat would need to move a bit forward, something i don't think the driver's seat can afford. hence, ottoman only on the passenger side. the other side passenger will be as comfortable as any guy in an S class or 7er, the guy in the other seat will just be more so.
i'd like to know where you see the RL, w221, 5er and 7er in the new LS. seriously? i'll even provide you with a few pictures. here ya go: http://www.netcarshow.com/lexus/2007-ls_460l/ please feel free to point any similarities out.
i still think the LS doesn't have that futuristic flare that the S and the 7er has, espeically inside. it's just not as... special. but how can you possibly call 380 horsepower from a 4.6 anemic, or 306 from a 3.5l? how can you say the LS looks like all those other cars without any proof?
and a last point, i guess, is that i personally don't think the fender flares do anything for the w221 in real life, but i will withhold comparison to the LS until i see the LS in person too.
as far as the rear seats go, in order for the seats to recline i'd think the front passenger seat would need to move a bit forward, something i don't think the driver's seat can afford. hence, ottoman only on the passenger side. the other side passenger will be as comfortable as any guy in an S class or 7er, the guy in the other seat will just be more so.
i'd like to know where you see the RL, w221, 5er and 7er in the new LS. seriously? i'll even provide you with a few pictures. here ya go: http://www.netcarshow.com/lexus/2007-ls_460l/ please feel free to point any similarities out.
i still think the LS doesn't have that futuristic flare that the S and the 7er has, espeically inside. it's just not as... special. but how can you possibly call 380 horsepower from a 4.6 anemic, or 306 from a 3.5l? how can you say the LS looks like all those other cars without any proof?
and a last point, i guess, is that i personally don't think the fender flares do anything for the w221 in real life, but i will withhold comparison to the LS until i see the LS in person too.
01-15-2006, 12:59 PM
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Front, RL
Side, 7/5 series, with W221 touches in some spots especially the bottom portions of the doors. Look at how the rear quarter window has that little nick in it like the 5. I also see some of the new Toyota Avalon. Hell the new Avalon looks nicer than this new LS.
Rear, new Camry
I will go as far as saying the current LS looks more graceful, luxurious than the next gen LS.
For being a class leading sedan the IS350's driving experience was not as fun as a 330i and the engine was not as responsive. Perhaps it was the gearing on the transmission or what have you but to be honest the IS350 is a far better looking car than the new LS.
Also handling on the IS350 was horrible, as the the steering response. It felt like as if I was completely isolated from the road for being a sports sedan. My TL has better driving characteristics I felt over th IS with the exception of being FWD.
Side, 7/5 series, with W221 touches in some spots especially the bottom portions of the doors. Look at how the rear quarter window has that little nick in it like the 5. I also see some of the new Toyota Avalon. Hell the new Avalon looks nicer than this new LS.
Rear, new Camry
I will go as far as saying the current LS looks more graceful, luxurious than the next gen LS.
For being a class leading sedan the IS350's driving experience was not as fun as a 330i and the engine was not as responsive. Perhaps it was the gearing on the transmission or what have you but to be honest the IS350 is a far better looking car than the new LS.
Also handling on the IS350 was horrible, as the the steering response. It felt like as if I was completely isolated from the road for being a sports sedan. My TL has better driving characteristics I felt over th IS with the exception of being FWD.
Last edited by MB Fanatic; 01-15-2006 at 01:01 PM.
01-15-2006, 04:18 PM
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
FYIW, the Lexus IS350 smoke both the BMW 330 and Benz C350 easily, and peak torque came early.
The BMW 330 win the contest due to their magic suspension & steering & brake. None of these is strong point of Mercedes either.
And it's funny how some see the trunk & interior of the new W221 as "new trend", and at the same time calling everything in the new LS as "copy".
One thing I know for sure: if the new LS has all of that i-drive, steering column shifter, ugly 745 like trunk lid, lot of people here wouldn't mind to jump on it as "COPPYYYY"
The BMW 330 win the contest due to their magic suspension & steering & brake. None of these is strong point of Mercedes either.
And it's funny how some see the trunk & interior of the new W221 as "new trend", and at the same time calling everything in the new LS as "copy".
One thing I know for sure: if the new LS has all of that i-drive, steering column shifter, ugly 745 like trunk lid, lot of people here wouldn't mind to jump on it as "COPPYYYY"
Last edited by zam2000; 01-15-2006 at 04:22 PM.
01-16-2006, 08:18 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by zam2000
Make sure you talk to those who bought the w220 when it first came out in 99 to prepare yourself for frequent dealer visit.
01-16-2006, 10:30 PM
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Let me first start by saying I've owned several Mercedes and never owned a Lexus. The w221 is an impressive looking vehicle. It is unfortunate that many of MBWorld forum members have been unimpressed by the interior, but I in general am unimpressed with the MB technology seen in their vehicles of late. The SBC brakes albeit efficient and potentially safer, are a complete failure in the cars from 2003-2005. How can MB rationalize pulling the SBC from the E and CLS models after so many problems and complaints, yet claim it is still good enough to use in their flagship S/SL models? Maybe my recent experience with the E55 (new tranny, radiator, a/c down twice,SBC recalls-2, no spare tire, stalling issues, supercharger clutch-all in the first 25,000 miles) has soured me on new MB products. The long and short of it, I'm no longer impressed with MB products.
Now regarding the LS460, I think it is clearly an improvement on the previous model and clearly is a close relative of the GS, which styling-wise has been growing on me. The drivetrain will definitely compete with the S550 and 750il. Only driving the LS will determine if Lexus has truly become a player in the performance luxury category. From a pure luxury standpoint, it's definitely on par with the Europeans, but whether the handling can compare will determine if MB and BMW owners would switch brands.
Assuming the build quality and reliability of the Lexus remains the same, I think the new LS is definitely strong competition for the MB and BMW in this segment, especially since it is $10,000 less. Luxury vehicle owners are not looking for I-Drives or COMAND. They want style, luxury, perfomance, reliability, and a good dealer experience. The LS460 may ultimately be better suited to deliver all of these qualities in 2007.
Now regarding the LS460, I think it is clearly an improvement on the previous model and clearly is a close relative of the GS, which styling-wise has been growing on me. The drivetrain will definitely compete with the S550 and 750il. Only driving the LS will determine if Lexus has truly become a player in the performance luxury category. From a pure luxury standpoint, it's definitely on par with the Europeans, but whether the handling can compare will determine if MB and BMW owners would switch brands.
Assuming the build quality and reliability of the Lexus remains the same, I think the new LS is definitely strong competition for the MB and BMW in this segment, especially since it is $10,000 less. Luxury vehicle owners are not looking for I-Drives or COMAND. They want style, luxury, perfomance, reliability, and a good dealer experience. The LS460 may ultimately be better suited to deliver all of these qualities in 2007.
Last edited by Dr Chill; 01-16-2006 at 10:33 PM.
01-17-2006, 12:26 AM
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
Originally Posted by MB Fanatic
The W221 has all the features of SBC without the problems of SBC.
People, whatever you do, remmember, exhaust fume is bad for your brain. Don't inhale Mercedes fume too much.
01-17-2006, 12:38 AM
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It was in a press release or something. They said the new system was based on a master cylinder (old school) but incorporated dry braking, features like sbc hold, sbc stop, and other features of SBC such as the lack of vibration.
slanted headlights, sharp oblique lines........ anyone?
01-17-2006, 12:55 AM
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Pedestrian Safety, Pedestrian Safety, Pedestrian Safety, Pedestrian Safety, Pedestrian Safety, Pedestrian Safety, Pedestrian Safety, Pedestrian Safety. Pedestrian and Cyclist Safety. European Union new law, standards, commencing 2007 models.
MBZ had to redesign to meet the new standards. Smaller, lower Frontal Impact Area; more sweep up and over the hood and front fender headlight areas. Bye-bye superchargers. Hello hood/bonnet crumple zones.
I just don't know why everyone seems to have missed this(!). They've been talking about it for a year and a half now.....
MBZ had to redesign to meet the new standards. Smaller, lower Frontal Impact Area; more sweep up and over the hood and front fender headlight areas. Bye-bye superchargers. Hello hood/bonnet crumple zones.
I just don't know why everyone seems to have missed this(!). They've been talking about it for a year and a half now.....
01-17-2006, 12:59 AM
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Seriously, Clay makes a point.
You know whats funny is that Mercedes still look good and modern in design even 15 years down the road whereas other cars will look outdated. For some reason these Mercedes age very slowly IMO. Hell a W210 looks great and is one of my favorite Mercedes ever made.
You know whats funny is that Mercedes still look good and modern in design even 15 years down the road whereas other cars will look outdated. For some reason these Mercedes age very slowly IMO. Hell a W210 looks great and is one of my favorite Mercedes ever made.
01-17-2006, 01:04 AM
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I guess that explains why the foglight housing looks the way it does or the placement of the creases being oblique instead of bold mascline german lines.
Hey, maybe it's me but that aint no schnitzel it's all chicken fried rice when I see it.
Hey, maybe it's me but that aint no schnitzel it's all chicken fried rice when I see it.
01-17-2006, 01:29 AM
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I have confirmation on the new hood/bonnet crumple zones (another MBZ safety innovation BTW - what does that make? 103? LOL) being incorporated on/into the GL. The look with the oblique rather large creases is the same to me as I'm now seeing on some other 2007's -- but I don't have confirmation (yet) that that is what they are.... I am sure though, that now that they have figured out how to do them that they will be incorporated into as many model lines as is possible....
